Here I go: Has anybody whistled, hummed, sung a Madonna "melody" - hostility not needed here.

[UTUSN]

So Jennifer GREY just guested on Seth MEYERS, promoting her memoir and disclosed that "Express Yourself" was written by Madonna about/for her.

In the '90s I was just subsistence/surviving and had no extra, superfluous resources of time or other to devote to Madonna or anybody else, so I never "got" her.

And what little filtered down to my level was just a THUDDING, monotonous, uninspired 4x4 rhythm, nothing that siren-ed me into lotus land (Odyssey reference here).

*** So I looked because of Ms GREY's anecdote and heard this out and got nothing from it.

[KPN]

1. Well, I personally never cared much for her music, most

likely because I didn’t notice it, I.e., it didn’t strike me either. But there’s no denying that she is one of the most successful individual recording artists/performers of all time in terms of the common denominators (records sold, dollars earned, etc.). Can’t really argue with that. Heck, I had the same response to Michael Jackson frankly. Madonna may have actually outdone him in terms of common denominators.

[UTUSN]

3. Whew! - can't tell you how RELIEVED and grateful I am. Was sure was gonna get blasted.

And that goes for JACKSON, too.

[brush]

5. Jackson's "Thriller is still the best selling album of all time.

Her music hasn't passed the test of time, some of his has.

I'm not a particular fan of either.

[Boomerproud]

30. Never got MJ or Madonna.

sorry.

[RandySF]

2. Take a Bow

[UTUSN]

4. I choose to accept it in the most positive interpretation, so thanks!

[RandySF]

7. .

[UTUSN]

8. 1 2 3 4 - 1 2 3 4 - well, a bit of melody - tight assed bullfighters been done

by Hemingway.

[Frasier Balzov]

13. That was going to be my choice too.

I give Babyface much of the credit for it.

[Phentex]

19. I sing along loudly with this. Not sure why she went bullfighter...

when I clearly hear kabuki theatre. But I think it's got a haunting orchestral feel to it.

2 Madonna songs on my playlist. Take a Bow for singing along and Like a Prayer for bopping along like a teenager.

[UTUSN]

6. Forgot to mention her talk show appearnces - pretentious, stupid.

& her & JACKSON's cash magnet is a mystery to me.

[multigraincracker]

9. Hey, don't judge me. On my jogging playlist...

[UTUSN]

10. Wouldn't dream of it - but Gag & Bad Romance are WAY above teh Mad one!

[redwitch]

20. I like this song.

But if I listen to it I will have it stuck in my head for hours!

[highplainsdem]

21. I won't judge you. I love Gaga's "Born This Way" - the song and video deserved all the

awards they won, and her Grammy performance was stunning.

[beaglelover]

35. I highly respect both Gaga and Madonna and have been a fan of Madonna's since the beginning.

I think I've seen her 3 times live and all of the concerts were awesome, especially Blonde Ambition way back in 1990 when I was just a pup.

But it's interesting that you would post this song in reaction to the OP. In Madonna's MDNA tour she segued into Born This Way during her performace of Express Yourself to show how similar the 2 songs were...same chord structures, etc. And to put Lady Gaga down a bit as Madonna believes that Gaga has copied her and how she rose up in the music world. Anyway, just thought that was interesting.

[highplainsdem]

37. See this:

https://rollingstone.com/feature/lady-gagas-born-this-way-express-yourself-104463/

I agree with that. IMO Gaga's song is much better.

Gaga and Madonna have had a lot of the same influences. Madonna didn't invent dance-pop, any more than she was the first person to try to copy Monroe's image, the first pop singer to be influenced by Bowie, etc. Gaga's early training focused on music, while Madonna focused on dance. Personally, I don't care about dance. And I think Gaga's a stronger singer. I wasn't very impressed by "Express Yourself" -- the studio track or the video. I was knocked out by "Born This Way."

Popular music is always recycling elements from earlier music, both sound and image. Grace Jones accused Madonna of copying her image.

And as far as her songs go, Madonna's been accused of plagiarism herself, while accusing others of plagiarizing her.

[UTUSN]

29. How did Gaga/Bad Romance get in this? - Love her and her stuff, nothing to do with Madonna

[UTUSN]

11. Forgot Mad's childish attempts to tittilate

[UTUSN]

12. And another thing, could she figure out who she is instead

of impersonating Norma Jean or whomever?

[hlthe2b]

14. well, I'll defend that. Had she not changed as much as she did, her career would be "one & done"

(one or two years and then old hat)... That's why she kept reinventing herself and it was savvy to do so.

I don't like all her music or even most, but she had some ballads that were memorable. And, I respect her (as I did James Brown) as one of the hardest working people in the biz. She was a ground-breaker--one that paved a way for so many others, including Lady Gaga and others.

So, there's a place for Madonna--excesses and all-- and she was and is a savvy businesswoman and trailblazer.

[Mr.Bill]

25. I agree.

look how many times the Beatles or the Rolling Stones re-created themselves to some degree.

[Harker]

15. No, but periodically I get one annoying line stuck in my head for a bit. n/t.

[highplainsdem]

16. I was never a Madonna fan.

[Coventina]

17. Haters gonna hate. I love Madonna.

ETA: This thread seems pretty hostile to me. Just sayin'

[UTUSN]

18. Good morning! - Just sayin' that the thread can't be all that hostile since it provided

Last edited Thu May 5, 2022, 12:36 PM - Edit history (1)

enough comfort to accommodate your opinion. Otoh, this morning I suddenly got a pang of less comfort for mine - which, I'll say here, happens in some interactions more than with others!1

I have a spectrum of posting "quality" - ranging from the nonsensical at one end, through the throw-away, to the fairly often enough thought-out at the other end. It's not a monolithic thing, no "equality" of weight to all the posts - although all too often confusion reigns in responses that mistake which end of my spectrum they're perceiving. However, I almost always attempt to provide reasons and context for my *opinions* without personal attacks, name-calling, condescension, snark.

So your and my opinions apparently differ - what more can be said about this situation (rhetorical question, no question mark - apparently labels are needed for lots of things).

Just sayin'

ON EDIT: Had to google "ETA" in the Urban Dictionary. I use "ON EDIT" and you "ETA" - another example of difference!1

[GumboYaYa]

22. Me too....I am putting her on the stereo right now.

Happy Friday!

[Coventina]

23. I've found that dislike of Madonna almost always falls into one the following categories:

Sexism
Misogyny
Homophobia
Slut-shaming a sex-positive woman

and most recently

Ageism (how dare a woman in her 60s still be interested in sex!!!!!)

[UTUSN]

26. My generosity to you is not to accuse you of attributing those things to me, personally.

In your list:

"Sexism
Misogyny
Homophobia
Slut-shaming a sex-positive woman
and most recently
Ageism (how dare a woman in her 60s still be interested in sex!!!!!)"

you left out *my* stated critiques:

Boring thudding simple 4x4 rhythm, pretentiousness, copying (no, not "reinventing" self) others, no melodic beauty, monotonous sing-song, and much more than I've been exposed to.

Yeah, I'm going to lay claim to MOZART's catalog, "reinventing", doncherno.

[UTUSN]

28. Am going to try to put our interactions on a constructive level.

As SKINNER put it several years ago, members should manage their own relationships as adults instead of (running to Admin/paraphrase).

Background: You've posted disapprovingly/antagonistically to me a few times over some fairly long time, the only contacts we've had, and it's clear to me you have a specific agenda that assumes/projects that I am your Enemy. You are wrong.

You've been ready to pounce on the hot button issues you find in my posts but have totally ignored my thousands of other posts that would make your disapproval moot.

I've been around the block of being flamed way too much to know that well meaning but zealous single-issues are the impetus.

Not presuming to advise anybody but the Enemy is somewhere else.

[Coventina]

31. Hmmmmm.....I apologize, for I have no memory of our having interacted before.

I won't claim we have not, certainly, as I'll admit my memory is very poor when it comes to DU.

I will submit to your charge that we have interacted negatively in the past, or I have reacted negatively to you. I just simply admit that I do not remember these encounters, and if I have been nasty, unfair, or mean I do apologize.

I am sorry if you felt my comments about sexism, et. al. were directed at you. I acknowledge that your criticisms were largely just that you feel she is a talentless hack. Fine, that's your opinion and you are entitled to it. However, you seemed to start the thread anticipating that you would receive pushback, and I was happy to supply it.

I added the additional post about sexism, etc. because it has been my experience that when people complain about Madonna, after scratching the surface, the complaints tend to fall into those categories.

As you state your issue with her is one of lack of talent, I would appeal to your sense of justice in admitting that she was pro-woman, pro-lgbtq+, pro-AIDS funding, etc. etc. etc. long before it was "safe" to do so.

Remember when she had her contract with Pepsi canceled because she kissed a black man in her "Like A Prayer" video?
Remember when she built all those hospitals and schools in Africa? (Actually, an ongoing project for her)
Remember when she almost got arrested in Italy because she refused to change her show at the Pope's demand?
Remember when she got numerous death threats for protesting the Iraq war?

For 40 years she's been a fearless champion for human dignity in the face of people trying to censor her and shut her down.

Leaving aside her entire musical career, she's been one hell of a fighter for social justice, and I just get tired of people always slagging her down for being a pop artist that doesn't happen to be to their taste.

Anyway, yes, I admit, I love her, I grew up with her. I got through a bad breakup from an abusive relationship by listening to "Express Yourself" on endless repeat. So I am personally invested, and I know it's silly to be personally invested in a celebrity. But, at least try to look at her work, all of it, not just the music, and be fair.

Thanks,

Coventina

[UTUSN]

32. Wow, am pleasantly acceptive at your explanations & taking *me* out of it, thanks.

As I said from the beginning, my knowledge of her is near-zero.

* My focus is only on the music, not her.

* All the rest (kissing Black man, whatever) is way beyond my pay grade.

* I'll admit, as a Lapsed Cath, that everything from the "madonna" and gratuitous Cath/religious references put me off from the get-go.

* I'm *music*/melody oriented, don't care about LYRICS.

* Whatever her one-hell of social justice fighter has been, what has filtered down to my level is not that.

* I certainly don't mind that she means so much to you or her gazillion fans. But can I object for myself?

* I have never even been aware of her in my life and don't care to censor her or shut her down.



**(*(*(*( O.K., so cheers to you, and I will never flame you (or anybody).

[GumboYaYa]

33. When I was in college many years ago I had a history teacher that showed Madonna

videos in class. He used it to teach us about the pervasive sexism and misogyny throughout history. Madonna flipped those roles and that was why everyone's heads were exploding over her.

So Inside Edition gets wind of the class and decides to do a story. Bill O'reilly shows up and the plan clearly is to make my professor look like a kook. Little did O'reilly know his intellect compared to my professor made Bill the one-legged man in an ass kicking contest. My professor proceeded to make O'Reilly look like an idiot. It was a thing of absolute beauty.

[Coventina]

34. That is totally awesome!!

Sounds like a really enjoyable class!

Plus, seeing O'Really look like the idiot he is (when he always thinks he's the smartest guy in the room) is a memory to treasure!!

[Mr.Bill]

24. Not really a fan of hers,

but when Like a Virgin first came out, I thought it was a catchy tune and I admit it got stuck in my head at times.

[UTUSN]

27. Careful, but the bullets are on me, so ya owe me! - Thanks for your courage!

[beaglelover]

36. Big Madonna fan and LOVE the song Express Yourself.

The video for Express Yourself is quite ground breaking as well. Here's an excerpt from the Wiki article about the song and video:

"The accompanying music video, directed by David Fincher, was inspired by the Fritz Lang classic film Metropolis (1927). It had a total budget of $5 million ($10.93 million in 2021 dollars[3]), which made it the most expensive music video made up to then, and currently the third most expensive of all time. The video portrayed a city full of tall skyscrapers and railway lines. Madonna played the part of a glamorous lady and chained masochist, with muscular men acting as her workers. In the end, she picks one of them—played by model Cameron Alborzian—as her date. Critics noted the video's depiction of female sexuality and that Madonna's masculine image in the video was gender-bending."

Yes, THAT David Fincher directed the video, as well as her video for Vogue, which is also an AWESOME song and video!

Anyway, Madonna will go down as one of the most infuential entertainers of all time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Express_Yourself_(Madonna_song)