Bathroom plumbing advice?

[Hugh_Lebowski]

So my bathtub AND sink (in the same bathroom) are both draining slowly. Sink is SUPER slow (can be hours), bathtub less so but still annoying (standing in 1.5-2" of water by the end of my shower depending how long, and it takes about 15-30 mins to drain).

Other stuff around the house does fine, 2nd bathroom seems okay, toilets in both are okay and not clogging up, dishwasher and washing machine okay. Seems to be just these two drains, in this one room.

Anyone have any advice?

It's not something dumb and obvious where both the drains are just clogged in their upper portions around the pop-up assemblies, I've checked that. It's deeper down for sure.

TIA friends

[tblue37]

1. I had that problem some years ago. It turned out that the pipes had deteriorated to the point

that their insides were clogged with what was flaking off.

Fortunately I rent, since the clogged pipes had to be replaced.

[genxlib]

9. In my part of South Florida

It is pretty common for the sewer pipes to be made of cast iron buried under slab. It is almost like clockwork that they go bad at about 50 years old.

I had consistent problems with clogging in mine and they finally had to send a camera down. the channel of the pipe was completely corroded away so the sewage was just sitting on dirt.

The only good way to fix it is to replace all the piping. Rather than chip up all my terrazzo flooring, they tunneled under the house and replaced the piping with PVC. Pretty cool but expensive operation. Runs like clockwork now.

[unblock]

2. Personally I've used drano or the equivalent successfully

but not all pipes can handle and it's not for all situations. And there are less harsh alternatives.

[unblock]

3. We also have one of those snake things to grab clogs and pull them out

Also not for all situations but works sometimes.

[a kennedy]

24. I love that snake thing.......works like a charm, and I swear to gawd that is EXACTLY why I'm

bald. That snake takes more hair out of the drain the anything…….now how do I get that back on my head.

[Floyd R. Turbo]

4. When baking soda and vinegar doesn't work, I use liquid drano. I usually find that the clog is from

hair in the p-trap!

[Chainfire]

14. I am a retired plumber, I have seen far more damage to plumbing systems by

chemical drain cleaners than you could imagine.

[a kennedy]

25. So what do you as a man of the plumbing business suggest??

and thanks.

[Chainfire]

34. I replied below with a suggestion to use a wet vac.

Then, there is always the option of calling a plumber.

[mopinko]

32. i've used sulfuric acid.

i just had to replace a tub that was pitted to death from drano.
it's much less damaging to porcelain.

i've also sucked drains clear w a shopvac if the clog isnt too far down. i have a kitchen sink that is piped a tad hinky, has a disposal, so it clogs once in a while.

[Disaffected]

41. I'm interested in the chemistry of this.

What type of pipe is damaged and why?

Drano for instance is a mix of sodium hydroxide and aluminum metal chips. In water, the Al reacts with the sodium hydroxide to generate heat and the sodium hydroxide acts directly with grease/gunk that is usually the cause of the clogging.

AFAIK, sodium hydroxide does not react with ABS, PVC or copper or iron pipe so what exactly happens to it?

[Chainfire]

42. I am not a chemist, but I have seen iron and plastic damaged by drain cleaners.

I ruined my own high-end kitchen sink basket strainers using household bleach. It is not damage that happens overnight, but over long term use. The heat generated by drain cleaners can damage even PVC pipe, making it sag and making the problem worse. People put all kinds of junk in the drains to try to avoid calling a pro. Concentrated Sulfuric or Hydrochloric acids are a couple of them. When they fail to unstop the drain and call the plumber they will also lie about putting the stuff in the drains. (that is how plumbers get burned)

I called on one customer that used a bottle of an acidic drain cleaner in his sink, he called me screaming because it had melted the PVC continuous waste and P-trap and then badly burned the wood in the cabined bottom. I had to replace the piping, and then snake out the drain, so it wasn't a very good move, and to top it off, it was on a Sunday, so I blistered his ass on the charge too!

The best way to avoid drainage problems is first, hire a good licensed plumber to install or alter your plumbing. Second, put grease in the trash, not down the drain. After you wash greasy pans, flush the drain with cold water, not hot. Hair in drains is an easy fix, grease in drains, once it reaches the point of becoming a constant problem, it is an expensive fix. Put sanitary devices in the trash, I don't care how much the product claims to be flushable; us old plumbers refer to sanitary devices as "sewer fish" and they make us a lot of money.

Most shower drains can be unstopped with a shop vac. Most tubs can be dealt with by the same method. Get someone to show you how to remove that pop-up stopper in your tub, and the same in your lavatory and you can keep me in the poor house.

[Disaffected]

43. Yeah, acid or bleach not good.

Last edited Wed Jul 6, 2022, 08:42 PM - Edit history (1)

Not using Draino properly - adding hot water instead of cold will get it hot and soften plastics (such as PVC) but I have used it several times with hot water (because it works better) with ABS pipe with no apparent deleterious effects.

I'd use it more often but I have a septic tank and don't want to kill the bacteria. Using an acid based cleaner with a concrete septic tank would also attack the concrete I imagine.

What I do specifically is wait until just before the septic tank is pumped out so the septic action will not be impaired.

BTW, plumbers "in the poor house".

[eppur_se_muova]

46. Many drain cleaners, Drano included, include some hypochlorite, which is an oxidizing agent.

It's basically the same chemical found in Chlorox bleach; if you see little bits of blue in a solid drain cleaner, it's probably iron impurities in the hypochlorite. As an oxidant, it could react with copper or iron. I'd be very reluctant to test ABS with it, as both the nitrile and C=C double bonds (from butadiene, the B in ABS) could react.

I would think hydroxide alone could harm ABS. The A is for acrylonitrile. Nitriles hydrolyze in strong base (or acid). This might not have a huge effect on the pipe, but I wouldn't want to bet on it.

One basic problem (no pun) is that dilution of sodium hydroxide can release a great deal of heat -- you don't need Al chips for that, they dissolve to produce bubbles (of highly flammable H2). I've seen NaOH + water melt a Nalgene bottle (HDPE, IIRC), and it could probably do the same to PVC.

Keep in mind that whatever the name of the plastic involved, there are usually other components involved -- plasticizers such as phthalates, adhesives, cross-linkers -- which might react in ways that the pure polymer would not.

[Disaffected]

48. Thanks, I was wondering

what the blue stuff is.

My conclusion here is that, as usual, it's the dosage that makes the poison. If the instructions for cleaners such as Draino are followed, I doubt there would be any big issues. And Draino has stated for years, FWIW, that its products do not harm pipes (I wonder if they have ever been sued for pipe damage?).

And, as I mentioned before, I've used Draino several times over many years, at higher than recommended dosages and with hot instead of cold water, and have noticed no detrimental effects on ABS pipe or the brass fittings under the sink. I'm tempted now to experiment a bit with some scrap ABS and copper pipe I have lying around.

[eppur_se_muova]

49. I think it would take a long time to have any effect on copper. nt

[Chainfire]

16. I am a retired plumber, I have seen far more damage to plumbing systems by

chemical drain cleaners than you could imagine.

[Floyd R. Turbo]

26. Guess I've been lucky!

[Harker]

5. Did you try one of those 24" flexible, toothed gizmos?

There's sometimes a lot of hair in bathroom drains.

[IcyPeas]

20. I bought one of these barbed things at the dollar store

the first time I used it I was amazed at all the gunk it pulled out. For a buck it's very worth it.

[Harker]

21. Oh, yes.

A buck very well spent.

I use mine prophylactically to avoid letting massive, nauseating wads develop.

[genxlib]

6. That is a strange problem

Because usually, they would both be clogged or only one would be clogged. The sink is almost always connected upstream of the tub or they on separate branches of the same leg. They usually aren't very far apart on the plumbing because they often share a vent stack. (That's the pipe that goes through the roof.) If they are on the same wall, they would likely share a stack.

If I had to guess, you might have a clog at the junction where the sink meets the main line from the tub. That location could be fully clogging one pipe while partially clogging the other.

Otherwise, you have two relatively unrelated clogs.

I know that isn't much help but sometimes half the battle is figuring out where the problem is.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

19. Well they're both clogged and here's the thing, they've steadily gotten worse nearly in tandem

1 year ago, 1 gallon of water poured in would take, say, 1 min to drain from the tub, and 5 mins in the sink (just as a for example here).

Today, 1 gallon of water poured in would take, say, 5 min in the tub, and 25 mins in the sink.

They've steadily gotten worse synchronously. Also, when they're BOTH draining? They're both slower than when it's only 1.

SO ... I was thinking the same as what you're talking about re: some kind of a problem at the junction, but not sure what this means in terms of repair? Do I have to get a plumber, is it 'too far down' probably for a layman to fix?

Note, I don't put odd things in either place. I don't wash pets, I have very short hair, I don't even shave in the sink, fact I use electric razor and empty it into the toilet not the sink/shower. Very careful what I put down.

My ex-wife, however ... was not. And had very long hair and she was a shedder, and this was 'her' shower and sink for 5+ years. I've only started using them recently.

[genxlib]

22. Yeah, that is a strange problem

There aren't a lot of possibilities for a single problem to cause varying levels of clog in two different branches.

If the problem was below the junction where they joined together, then they would experience similar rates of leakage.

Not only that, the sink is higher than the tub. So if they are connected hydraulically above the leak, then the sink would drain back up into the tub.

When you say that they are draining at different rates, are you waiting until the pipes are full and backing up into the tub/sink before you put the test gallon in? The reason I ask is that the empty pipes down to the clog could have different volumes. So a lot of what you are putting in may be filling space in the pipes before backing up. So it may seem like the gallon is disappearing faster in the tub when it simply means there is more space in the pipes to hold it as it seeps through the clog. The only way to know for sure is to put the test gallon in after the water is already backed up to above the drain.

You should try the things that people are recommending here. But chances are, if it really is effecting two branches then it is probably deeper than you can reach. The right way to unclog that is from the vent on the roof. It is possible for some homeowners to do that but it takes some substantial equipment. Generally it takes a visit from something like roto-rooter. However, be careful because some of those companies don't let their people work on the roof anymore. The other way is from a cleanout if there is one. That is an access port where clogs can be accessed but you don't find them in residential construction very often.

Wish I could offer better news. I had the rooter company out to my house a bunch of times until I finally fixed my pipes like I mentioned up thread.

[NJCher]

38. It's time

to call the psychic.

[MontanaMama]

7. I'm no plumber...

but we just had this same issue in our walk in shower. It had been draining slowly and was getting gradually worse. The floor of the shower is natural stone tile and the drain grate is grouted into place so I couldn't pop that off to look down to see what the problem was. I took a stiff piece of wire, bent the end into a hook and put it down the drain and wiggled it around and it hooked enough hair that I could have made a lap dog out of it...for real. It was down quite a ways...the wire I was using was at least 18 inches long. I couldn't even see the clog with a flashlight. You can also buy a device designed just for this purpose for a couple of bucks at the hardware store. This shower is only 10 years old so I was surprised at the amount of hair that was down there...but I've got long hair so I guess I'm the culprit. I ran a bunch of baking soda and vinegar down afterwards followed by a kettle of boiling water and it is working like new.

Hope this helps! Plumbing problems are no fun at all.

I did find quite a few videos on YouTube too. Not entertaining at all but they were helpful.

[TexasTowelie]

12. Don't you hate it when you're the one to blame?

The good news is that you fixed the problem for a few dollars at most.

[wyn borkins]

8. A Possible Solution

Item (1): One one-pound box of baking soda (store-brand)
Item (2): Two pints of plain vinegar (store-brand)
Item (3): Two quarts of boiling water

Pour one-half box of plain baking soda into each drain (area). Allow to set for a minute (or so), then pour one pint of plain vinegar into each drain (area) and allow to react for at least 30 minutes. Finally, pour one quart of boiling (or very hot) water into each drain (area). This should help clear your drains if they are clogged with 'normal' detritus.

If this procedure does not (initially) work, you can try it several more times before...

[magicarpet]

10. Try a flexible wire snake,.. get at Lowes/Home Depot,....

Are you close to a hose water spigot ? There is a nozzle you can put on your hose. Take a hand towel to block leakage around the nozzle once you shove it down the drain. The water pressure may push the blockage down the drain. Be careful, it can get to be a mess if the hose gets away from you. Take it slow and logically. A helper may be a good idea. Try running a snake into the drain to break up and dislodge the clog. Then blast it with the hose to clear the pipe.

Talk to a clerk at any hardware store or Lowe's/Home Depot for any other ideas for clearing bathroom drains.

Drano or lye should be your last resort it is highly caustic and can chem burn your skin and corrode some pipes.

[genxlib]

23. They make a special nozzle for that

It diverts some of the water into a balloon that blows up to fill the pipe. That way the pressure goes down and pushes against the clog instead of coming back out at you.

https://www.amazon.com/Drain-King-Unclogs-Bathroom-Swimming/dp/B0000CBIWC/ref=sr_1_9?crid=1U5047XRC3N1J&keywords=balloon+clog+nozzle&qid=1656720572&sprefix=balloon+clog+nozzle%2Caps%2C105&sr=8-9

[mopinko]

33. these are great.

[asiliveandbreathe]

11. Had same problem few months ago....realize, it doesn't take much to clog..first

Plunged lightly..both sink and tub..then I bought those sticks....skeptical for sure...yup..they worked..just follow instructions... been about a year....sink is slowing..will use another stick..tub is great...clogs are so annoying...our walk in shower..we use a snake..borrow from a friend....

Bioflow sticks..I think we got them at HD... ,

[iscooterliberally]

13. If you can get another person to help, use two plungers at the same time.

Use one on each clogged drain. You should be able to move the clog around enough to get it to break free. If that doesn't work, I would call a plumber. You might need to snake out your plumbing stack. Good luck!

[Chainfire]

15. My suggestion to clear your shower is to use a wet vac.

If you don't have one, you can probably rent one from the Home Despot, or Slowes. Seal the around hose as best you can. (a wet washcloth works) and vaccuum it out. It may work with the "sink" too, but you will have to stop up the overflow hole in the lavatory; again a wet washcloth works.

[Phoenix61]

18. I pour a bottle of hydrogen peroxide down the drain.

It eats the living stuff that glues everything together.

[panader0]

27. Unscrew the P-trap under the sink (when the water has drained), and see what goodies

are in there. When my kids were little, I once found three toothbrushes at one time. Pretty easy to do.

[LuckyCharms]

28. Hugh, check the traps for both the sink and the tub.

If these are OK, and the area immediately past the drain holes are ok...

Speaking from experience...if you have tried all of the things mentioned in this thread, I would bite the bullet and call a plumber, because there is either a clog further down, or the pipe itself is somehow compromised further down.

A plumber will figure it out and clear it. For difficult issues, they can sometimes even fish a camera through the system to take a look.

Save the aggravation! Usually when I encounter something like this, I spend more on buying stuff trying to fix it than I would spend on a plumber. Not to mention the time involved.

Good luck!

[hunter]

29. Cameras used to be an expensive high technology.

They are cheap enough now that most plumbers have them. A basic fifty foot snake is around $150 on Amazon, and pro quality gear less than $1,000.

[eppur_se_muova]

47. You can buy a shorter version on eBay for under 20 bucks.

They make a type that connects directly to an Android phone; you use the screen on the Android for the display, so you only need to buy the camera and interface. Google "USB borescope". Can also connect to a laptop.

More expensive versions come with their own display screen. Google or check your local hardware store.

[tanyev]

30. What is your AC drain line connected to?

We had a problem last year where there was a clog in a sink, but the AC drain line was also connected to that sink, and it had developed a lot of build-up over the years. The plumber had to blow it out with some special gizmo. It was pretty gnarly.

[jmowreader]

31. First thing I would try...

A drain has a pipe that runs from the roof to the horizontal sewer pipe. This is so the sewer gas can drain. Get an idea of where your sink and bathtub are in the house, then go outside and look at your roof. If there's one vent pipe sticking up, both the tub and sink are draining into it and there's probably a clog in it. The toilet is on a different vent pipe.

So...what you're going to get to do is find someone to go up on the roof and snake that vent pipe. When you get the clog out, you'll hear a huge whoosh as all the water drains out. And when you pull the clog out of the pipe, it'll be this nasty ass glob of hair.

[Kali]

37. yep, this one is a regular for us

that or the animal that crawled up the drain pipe from outside

[maxrandb]

35. Is it 1St floor and any trees in your yard?

We had an issue where the tree roots were getting into and blocking the drain pipe from the house to the streets.

Had a plumber snake it with a power snake, and then, once a season we flush this Root Kill that you can find it the hardware store through the toilet.

It has worked for years now

[jmowreader]

44. The rest of the drains work so it's probably not that

[Marthe48]

36. You could try a wet-dry vac

You can reverse the hose from either intake or outflow. My husband would alternate the airflow to get the gunk out. Aside from hair, there can be a build up of soap, skin paticles and so on. It is a good idea to clean the drains a couple times a year to remove the buildup before it becomes a problem.

Where does that drain enter into your main drain? Above or below (or before or after) the drains that are working well? There might be a clog between that bath and the other drains. We had a bathroom remodel done. After the work was comlete, the cold water tap in the tub stopped flowing. It turned out that in the old days, plumbers would stuff rags in pipes to hold off the water. They were supposed to removed the rags, but somehow this piece was missed. The work and new plumbing dislodged it and it moved to the tap. If there is any chance something large fell in the toilet, like a brush, or bottle cap. it could be impeding the drains.

Sometimes, tree roots will clog your pipes outside, but I don't know enough about plumbing to know if that could be something affecting you.

Do you have a septic system or city water and sewer? If you have a septic system, the tank might need to be cleaned out.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

39. Red Devil lye, or its equivalent. 100% sodium hydroxide.

It's sold as dry granules. It should be about $8 or $9 per bottle now.

The other widely advertised products containing sodium hydroxide are generously diluted. Go for the real thing.

Give it time.

Also, do you have a good disposer? If so, give that a good clearing out every few weeks. Put several gallons of gray water, like from the washing machine, in the sink, then turn on the disposer and remove the stopper. Let all that water clear out the disposer and accumulated food gunk in your pipes.

[jmowreader]

45. It'll have to be some other brand of lye

Reckitt took Red Devil Lye off the market voluntarily because too many people were using it to make meth.

[Hotler]

40. 2-two liter bottles of coco-cola followed by a tub of hot water.

Last edited Sun Jul 3, 2022, 01:53 PM - Edit history (1)

Worked for me a few times. On sale @ $1.49 each it was worth a try.
I hope you get it fixed.

[Mosby]

50. Try an enzyme drain cleaner.

It will probably require multiple treatments. And then do your drains once a month. The drain sticks works pretty well, they just drop into the trap.