When the new DU format rolled out a short while back, some folks said, to those who complained about it, "give it a....

[RussellCattle]

.....while and you will learn to love it". The complaints died off rather quickly, so I'd say they were right.

[OAITW r.2.0]

1. Had no problems evolving to the latest version.

Overall, I think it is a little better, to be honest.

[Demovictory9]

2. They were right. I struggled with the unfamiliarity, now it's natural

[question everything]

3. A major complaint was fixed recently: Having all the tabs in one row, eliminating the need

for two or three clicks to reach the target.

[House of Roberts]

4. I'd love it, if for all we've been put through due to the change,

the new format supported Mastodon and Threads, etc. as well as it still supports X. So when it's inevitable that it must be changed again, to make that happen, will we go through this again?

[Hermit-The-Prog]

5. mastodon servers DU works with...

mastodon.online

journa.host

mastodon.social

mstdn.social

mas.to

mastodon.world

[highplainsdem]

7. Thanks for posting those! I haven't looked at Mastodon very much lately, both because most of the people

whose posts I find most interesting are still on Twitter, and because tweets (and images from tweets) are easier to post here.

I'm still hoping for Musk to lose control of Twitter and for it to be taken over by sane, ethical management (sane and ethical enough to get rid of the trolls, conspiracy theorists and fascists). I know that seems unlikely. But it also seems unlikely that any of the current platforms touted as possible replacements are actually going to replace what Twitter was at its best and most functional.

[House of Roberts]

9. That reminds me more of Facebook,

with so many individual 'servers' it's almost impossible to navigate to find who or what you want. then, if you get there, if you're not somebody's buddy, you're still on the outside not able to even look in.
From now on, if I see a Mastodon post, I'll have to check the domain to try to get used to the varieties. Appears to be too many to keep up with.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

10. Anyone can run a mastodon instance, but all are connected

Since anyone can run a mastodon server, no one can own the whole thing. Egoloons can't take it over.

You can search for a user from any of them.

Example: Using the search box at mastodon.world I searched for "vox" and one of the results was

https://mastodon.world/@[e-mail]/111716668202915630

sfba.social is not one that DU embeds in posts, so I copied and pasted the content here:

23h
[e-mail]
Elliot @[e-mail]

The shoplifting scare might not have been real — but its effects are
https://www.vox.com/politics/24025691/shoplifting-scare-criminal-justice-reform


Sigh that reads “Combating Retail Theft” is seen in the foreground while New York City Mayor Eric Adams speaks at a lectern.
Vox · 1d
How the shoplifting scare is undermining criminal justice reform By Abdallah Fayyad
#Vox

[highplainsdem]

6. I guess you missed all the very helpful updates responding to the problems DUers reported and

making changes to restore a lot of DU3 features that had worked better than the initial version of DU4.

EarlG and Elad deserve kudos both for making important changes from DU3 when they created DU4, and for recognizing when those initial changes weren't working.

A few examples, from the Announcements forum:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/101313243

https://www.democraticunderground.com/101313356

https://www.democraticunderground.com/101313475


EarlG's post about some of this, from the Community Help forum, which is especially important for you to read, since you don't seem to understand why people were complaining, and why there are fewer complaints now (though people are still posting about some problems in Community Help, and the admins are still working on them)

https://www.democraticunderground.com/125624169

Excerpt from that:

The biggest change to DU in the last update was certainly the navigation system. It was my intention to create something which would work better for mobile users, and I became convinced that a "one size fits all" approach was the right way to go. However, after observing the new system in action, it's clear that while some people like it, others are less keen.

So in the spirit of "if it wasn't broke and I tried to fix it, and I broke it, then I should fix it," we're working on bringing back the original tabbed navigation system.

Please don't dismiss or belittle the very necessary feedback the admins got. Or the credit the admins deserve for listening to it.

You know what was NOT helpful? The posts telling people having problems with DU4, "Stop complaining. You'll get used to it." Especially the posts like that ridiculing/belittling anyone pointing out problems as just too stupid and/or old and/or resistant to change. Those DUers should be ashamed of themselves.

[RussellCattle]

11. As a less frequent user than folks here who have tens or hundreds of thousands of posts, I confess that I didn't.....

......follow any of the great drama that you refer to as you "dismiss and belittle" me for "dismissing and belittling" the work of the Administrators and folks giving feedback. I am properly chastised by your lengthy response (if that was your purpose), but, as someone who really isn't into the nuts and bolts of the background function of this site, I don't feel it necessary to "educate" myself about peoples past complaints, even if you think it "important" for me to do so. It took me less than an hour to get used to the new site, and less than a couple of days to feel really comfortable with it and to appreciate the improvements made. Maybe I should have been satisfied with just saying that, rather than generalizing for others, like yourself, who take this more seriously.

I do appreciate the work of the administrators and, though I didn't specifically say it, think that they did a excellent job with the new format. I'll match your kudos and raise you an "attaboy".

Your admonition about "belittling/ridiculing" anyone here on this site is absolutely appropriate, as it always would be. I am sure that if one were to review my posts over the years, one would find them to be unfailingly polite and considerate of the sensibilities of others. Indeed, my most common posting is to praise others efforts. This post is about as negative as I ever get.

[highplainsdem]

12. It isn't dismissing or belittling you to point out that you apparently simply missed much of what was

going on, in terms of people having problems with DU4 and the admins responding to that.

I thought I could help you understand why there were complaints and changes, but you just made it clear you don't want to "educate" yourself to look at even a fairly small sampling of what was going on. And you just said you don't think it's important to know even what EarlG said in the four posts of his that I linked to, three of which were in the Announcements forum, so you'd have seen a popup banner when each was posted. Those announcements would have shown that it wasn't simply a matter of people having problems with DU4 initially and then just learning to love it.

Btw, I didn't link to any threads that were just people's complaints and suggest you "educate" (your word) yourself about their complaints. But if you had bothered to look at more of the Community Help forum where that 4th thread I linked to was posted, you'd have seen that the four newest pages of that forum, going back to October 18, are mostly about problems people were having with DU4. In most cases, they were problems that other DUers said they were also having.

So a lot of time and energy from quite a few people went into the transition.

I've apparently offended you by pointing out what you overlooked. I'm sorry. But I didn't know how to respond to what you said in the OP except by trying to show you what really happened.

[RussellCattle]

14. You say that you "didn't know how to respond" to my original post. May I suggest two alternatives. You could....

.....have just said the following:

"It seems that you do not understand or appreciate the efforts of the community in giving inputs to the administrators, both positive and of a constructive critical nature, responses that led the developers to continue in their efforts to refine and improve the new system in the weeks and months after the launch". FULL STOP

For the record, no, I did not understand or appreciate these efforts. Why would I ? I thought the new system worked just fine and nit-picking isn't in my nature. I'd don't go to this site to visit "Community Help" to quibble with the administrators. I believe that in the forum rules somewhere we are cautioned not to do so. Why do you think that I, let alone everyone who may comment on this sites functionality, would have to do so.

Again, for the record, from the first day of the new launch I was a cheerleader for the new system. I liked the new functionality and really liked the new look and I said this on several occasions both on that day and since then.

The second alternative you had was to not respond at all. There really was no good reason to do. Debate about current political issues is important, but this kind of process stuff really isn't. I know that this begs the question as to why I responded to your critique of my original post. Your response was so lengthy and well-formatted that I must have felt that it would be polite to respond. The bottom line is that, like, I suspect, many of the more casual, less immersed visitors to this site, this sort of process stuff is of little interest. No doubt it's important, but I wouldn't presume that everyone is interested.

Here's an example. You mention "EarlG and Elon (?)". I do not know really know who they are. Why do I need to?
Another example. You mention going to Community Help. Why should I ? I've got no problems. I'm not a complainer.
Are you yourself an administrator ? I have no way of knowing and don't think it should make a difference. I wish that you could read my 1300 posts over the last five years, such that you could see that all of them that respond to another members posting are of a generally positive nature, or even generous in their praise.

I have to apologize about my condescending use of the term "educate". I really thought that you had used it first but, looking back, you did not and for that I'm sorry.

One last suggestion. Please don't respond to this last communication. It's just not that important.

[highplainsdem]

15. The admins' names are EarlG and Elad. I'm replying because I don't think either of them would

appreciate being called Elon, and you put "EarlG and Elon" in quotes as if I'd said it and you were quoting me.

I replied to your OP because it was obvious you'd missed a lot of what happened with the transition, and it would have been rude to just point that out and not provide links to give you some idea what you'd missed - including the announcements that it's always a good idea to read when there's a notification via a banner.

Again, I'm sorry this offended you. You've explained your reasons for not knowing or caring about what was going on with the "nuts and bolts" of the transition. But your OP was about that transition, and I didn't know you'd ruled out any other info.

I'm glad you like DU4. Many DUers feel that way. I'll admit I didn't see what you called your "cheerleader" comments. Since you mentioned them, I did use Advanced Search to look for them, checking your posts not just since the transition on October 18 but since the start of the first beta test in August. Since I didn't see them, I'm guessing they were in one of the temporary beta-test forums that were there for weeks but are no longer accessible and can't be searched (unless the admins still have access because they saved them). Or maybe they were comments praising DU4 that you'd added to a post initially about a different subject (I read the beginning and most if not all of every message you'd posted during that time, but it's possible I missed some cheerleading for DU4 if it was toward the end of a longer message).

Anyway, good for you for telling people what you liked about DU4, and for posting about that from the first day you used it.

And good for the people who let the admins know when they ran into problems. I wouldn't label them "complainers" - and I'm mentioning that because of the disparaging way you write about people who ran into those problems:

For the record, no, I did not understand or appreciate these efforts. Why would I ? I thought the new system worked just fine and nit-picking isn't in my nature. I'd don't go to this site to visit "Community Help" to quibble with the administrators. I believe that in the forum rules somewhere we are cautioned not to do so.

-snip-

Another example. You mention going to Community Help. Why should I ? I've got no problems. I'm not a complainer.

Beta tests and forums like Community Help exist so admins can get feedback and respond to problems. DU used to have an "Ask The Admininstrators" forum for the same reason (and I noticed that you posted a reply in Community Help in early November - https://www.democraticunderground.com/125623852 - asking what had happened to that link, in a thread with DU members and EarlG discussing other problems with DU4, so you saw at least that much of a discussion of real problems that needed to be fixed).

Feedback is important. And it does help to know who the admins are. DU isn't just a software framework that allows you to post.

You wrote,

I wish that you could read my 1300 posts over the last five years, such that you could see that all of them that respond to another members posting are of a generally positive nature, or even generous in their praise.

I read quite a few of your posts. I agree they're generally positive.

But this OP showed you didn't understand the problems many DUers had with DU4, so I tried to explain them and point you to a few posts about them. And you're complaining about having them explained and saying you shouldn't have to know more. And you're also suggesting that the DUers who posted about those problems - so changes could be made so DU4 would work better for most people - were just nitpicking or quibbling or being complainers. I don't think that's fair to them.

[tblue37]

8. No. I still don't like it, for several reasons, but describing why is a lot of trouble.

[AllaN01Bear]

13. i do either , but i prefer skinner mode.

sometimes i dont sign in and lurk and read . sometimes i post .