St. Paul and gangsters? I'm reading a book taking place in 1931, and the narrator

[raccoon]

talks about St. Paul being full of gangsters and criminals.

Whoda thought?

[cyberswede]

1. I bet most reasonably large cities had them - especially during prohibition.

Des Moines, Iowa even had them.

http://www.iptv.org/iowapathways/mypath.cfm?ounid=ob_000162

[JNelson6563]

4. Bingo! Prohibition.

Now the gangsters sell different drugs. The more stuff that is illegal the more crime/gangs will flourish.

Julie

[Morning Dew]

2. St. Paul was notorious as a gangster hideout.

The police basically said, "don't bother us and we won't bother you".

Many of the famous gangsters of the era spent time in St. Paul - Dillinger, Ma Barker, Machine Gun Kelly and Baby Face Nelson among them.

[cyberswede]

7. I found this...

Boos your tour today!

http://www.twincitytrolleys.com/page/twin_cities_gangster_tours

[Morning Dew]

8. That could be fun.

Good to see you, cyberswede!

[cyberswede]

10. You too, MD!

[MrsMatt]

14. The Landmark Center, downtown St. Paul

has a gangster ghost.

I used to work in the Landmark, and know many people who had encounters with the ghost.

[Morning Dew]

15. I didn't know that - neat!

http://www.hauntedhouses.com/states/mn/landmark_center.htm

Jack Peifer was formerly a carnival worker and a bellhop before he started working for gangsters, which he saw as a way of getting ahead. At one point, he ran a St. Paul speak-easy on Mississippi River Boulevard, during prohibition, probably set up in business by his unsavory friends. He landed a plush job of laundering money as a banker for the underworld.

He crossed the line into real trouble when he joined the violent Barker/Karpis gang, and wound up being a lead figure in two kidnappings: William Hamm (of Hamm’s Beer) in June 1933, and Edward Bremer, a banker, in January 1934. The gang raked in a total of 300,000 clams! However, a high priority was placed in capturing them, because Edward Bremer Sr. was a friend of President Roosevelt. Jack Peifer tried to talk "Doc" out of this later caper, but he didn't win that argument. He was caught along with "Doc," and Alvin "Creepy" Karpis, and was convicted in room #317 of his involvement. After Charles Lindbergh’s son kidnapping and death in 1932, tough new penalties were created for this type of crime. Jack was facing stiff new penalties for his involvement, with plenty of hard time ahead of him: 30 years in Leavenworth Prison. Jack Peifer couldn't face it and killed himself in his jail cell, by swallowing potassium cyanide.

[hermetic]

21. Wow, me too!

I worked in the Landmark for 10 years, ending in 2004. COMPAS. Never encountered a ghost but the storage rooms on the top floor always had a creepy feeling about them. And the elevators were always doing weird stuff. I loved that building. My office had a turret!

[rurallib]

3. Just talking about that with my kids over the weekend

I don't have details, but stories are that it was quite the hangout for badguys.

On a personal note I went to a twins game with my parents in 1965. My parents never got motel reservations (stupid thing to do they said) so we eventually ended up in a hotel in downtown St.Paul around midnight - the American Legion was having their convention in Minneapolis and all that was left was the worst of the worst.

We had no AC - we were on the 5th floor and had to have the windows open. The shootings, the cop cars and the trolleys dropping their connections kept us up all night. Another truly unforgettable trip with my parents.

[Frosty1]

5. 1965?

I was raised in St Paul. Trolleys were gone long before then. Shootings? Come on... it was nothing like that in downtown St Paul Minneapolis maybe but not St Paul.

[rurallib]

9. might have been a couple years earlier

but the Twins moved there in '61.
My dad would pull off these 'business trips' to see baseball games.
after the game he ended up driving all over the area before he ended up in downtown St. Paul (pretty sure it wasn't Minneapolis) at some rickety old hotel.
It was past midnight, we had to have the windows open. We had to have a cot brought up for me at an extra cost (he bitched about that) . I remember laying by that window and seeing the sparks from the trolleys once.
There were gunshots @ 1AM shortly after we finally shut the lights out and once again @ 3AM. Seemed like cop sirens ran all night.

Now that I think about it it must have been '61 or '62.

We had center field seats because my cheap old man wouldn't pay for good seats. The outfield stands were like HS bleachers. Porta-potties were the facilities. We did see the Yankees that night and I had a great view of Mantle's back

All in all it was a night I could never forget.

[Frosty1]

11. '61 the Twins played at Met Stadium which was in Bloomington

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Twins
"In 1961 the Twins finished the season with a record of 70-90, good for seventh in the American League, which had expanded from 8 to 10 teams during the 1960-61 off season. It was the franchise's first season in Minnesota after 60 seasons in Washington, D.C. The Twins played their home games at Metropolitan Stadium."


"Streetcars were more expensive to run than buses. There was money to be made from scrapping the cars and infrastructure and substituting a lesser service, and that is exactly what happened. Ridership dropped dramat­ically. By 1954 it was down to 86 million and the streetcars were gone."
http://www.trolleyride.org/History/Narrative/TC_Transit.html

[rurallib]

12. yeah - went to the Met many a time

Must have been '61 when we went which makes sense since I would have been 11.

Guess my memory of the trolleys is faulty. That night was full of noise and lights and sirens.

When the Twins moved in the Met was far from finished. Think it had been a AAA park previously and they only had the bleachers in the out field that were quite rickety.

Well, I sure do remember the sirens and the shooting.

[Frosty1]

17. Having lived in both St Paul and Minneapolis

in those days St Paul had a much more small town feel to it. Crime was relatively low so a shootout would have been a big news deal. Not that it couldn't happen mind you, but it was a much more likely scenario in Minneapolis. I too worked at the Landmark Center when it was still just the old Federal Court Building. It was a little bit spooky but I never saw a ghost.

[rurallib]

18. I must say, you have probably helped me correct some faulty memories

My dad used to take similar trips into Chicago. During those trips we would end up in some absolutely scary places also.
So maybe over the years I have merged Chicago memories with TC memories.

I am fairly sure it was '61 or '62. We sat in miserable bleachers (permanent outfield seats would come later). My Dad made a "business trip" to visit Super Valu HQ and then we went to the ballgame.

Then he went looking for a place to stay after the game and eventually we ended in St. Paul. Probably not the one I remember. It was hot, no AC, that night so no one slept well. So no doubt I could have mixed memories with a couple of similar trips to Chicago.

Funny thing, I was young enough that I totally trusted my parents. Now when I think back, they put us - me in particular - in some scary situations.

Thanks for the help. Hope I didn't bug you too much

[Frosty1]

20. I've never been to the Met Center

so I have no idea what it looked like. I always thought St Paul was a pretty quiet city unlike Mpls. I remember my Mother and grandparents talking about the streetcars but they were gone before I was aware of them. You didn't bug me at all. It's just that your memories were so opposite of my experience of St Paul. I also was 11 in 1961.

[Taverner]

6. Near the Canadian border during prohibition

Couldn't ask for a better location

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

13. St. Paul was a gangster paradise at one time. It was a happening place

complete with gang shootouts, hookers and speakeasies. http://www.minnesotamonthly.com/media/Minnesota-Monthly/April-2007/Crime-Capital/ There was a whole labyrinth of caves near the Mississippi where they'd hide out. There is even a "gangster tour" where you can see the caves and what's left of the whorehouses. http://www.wabashastreetcaves.com/gangster.html

[Frosty1]

16. My Godmother was from one of the old Italian families on the east side of St Paul

She told stories of what it was like in the 30s. There was a big shootout at one of the old places on lower Payne Ave. I'm not sure if it was a restaurant or a bar. Must have been exciting times.

[Generic Brad]

19. We still have gangsters here - they just blend in better today

This is the heroin capitol of the USA these days. Where there are drugs - there is organized crime. This is also a hub for human trafficking. Those businesses don't run themselves.