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AnnieK401

(541 posts)
Mon May 21, 2012, 04:51 PM May 2012

An education in health insurance

Just got a lesson in health insurance. I don't qualify for traditional (major medical) insurance, so i have had one of these dubious "limited benefit" policies that are advertised on TV. I changed to a slightly cheaper policy sometime last yr. that had roughly the same coverage. I had a few Dr.'s visits earlier this yr. but now the insurance company is probably going to refuse to pay the measly $50.00 per visit (limit of 5 visits pr. yr.) my policy allows because they consider the conditions the Dr. was treating me for pre-existing conditions. I didn't realize there was a 12 month waiting period on "pre existing conditions." Luckily, even though I had quite a few blood tests and x-rays, this will not financially crush me if they not pay the little bit they would have paid for it. However, this makes me question whether it does any good to have insurance at all, which obviously would be a problem if I ended up in the hospital. My Dr. wants to do a heart scan that is on hold now because of this insurance problem. When we discuss health care in this country we are discussing real issues for real people. We need single payer.

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An education in health insurance (Original Post) AnnieK401 May 2012 OP
There are several good reasons for having insurance Turbineguy May 2012 #1
This wouldn't be an issue in any other industrialized country AnnieK401 May 2012 #3
The average... murphyj87 May 2012 #8
Thank you! AnnieK401 May 2012 #9
They may have to treat you, but they will follow you to the ends of the earth to get payment Merlot May 2012 #10
Then I guess I'd have to die without treatment AnnieK401 May 2012 #11
EMTALA rapersun Sep 2012 #13
I think catastrophic insurance pipoman May 2012 #2
I wouldn't qualify - please see my reply to the prev. post. AnnieK401 May 2012 #4
probably an insurance mill Shagman May 2012 #5
Yeah AnnieK401 May 2012 #6
Spam deleted by gkhouston (MIR Team) AKIKKO May 2012 #7
hi jony12 Aug 2012 #12
Long but worth it! Rationing of Health Care! rapersun Sep 2012 #14

Turbineguy

(37,412 posts)
1. There are several good reasons for having insurance
Mon May 21, 2012, 05:08 PM
May 2012

You get the insurance rate for procedures which is a third to a half off the rip-off price.

They don't throw your ass out into the street with the rest of those who can't afford insurance and still vote republican.

AnnieK401

(541 posts)
3. This wouldn't be an issue in any other industrialized country
Mon May 21, 2012, 05:44 PM
May 2012

in the world. We pay more but get worse coverage than any other developed country. Here the right has turned selfishness and childishness into virtues and we refuse to have a health care system that people can afford. I'm going to check with the local hospital. I didn't think a hospital can legally refuse to treat you, and if you do not have insurance I believe they have to work with you, or end up getting nothing and writing it off.

murphyj87

(649 posts)
8. The average...
Thu May 24, 2012, 11:32 PM
May 2012

The average cost for health care per person here in Canada is $3800 and when we pay our taxes that cost is paid. The average cost per person for health care in the United States is $7900 leaving 38% of Americans with less than the health care they need to meet their medical needs.

On the other hand, the average Canadian has 82.6 cents after taxes in his pocket for every dollar he makes, and that includes the cost of health care.

The average American has 81.8 cents after taxes in his pocket for every dollar he makes, and that does not include any health costs. Health insurance, deductibles, and copays are over and above the after tax amount.

According to a study by Gordon Guyatt and others, of the ten most statistically significant studies of medical outcomes for diverse problems, including cancer, coronary artery disease, chronic medical illnesses and surgical procedures between Canada and the United States, 5 favoured Canada, 3 were equal, and only 2 favoured the United States.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2801918/

Merlot

(9,696 posts)
10. They may have to treat you, but they will follow you to the ends of the earth to get payment
Sun May 27, 2012, 09:00 PM
May 2012

they have collections departments, and some emergency rooms are making sure you can pay BEFORE they treat you.

And even if you went to the ER, and got treatment, and didn't have to pay, what about follow up? What about meds? You can't go to the ER for chemo, or rehab.

AnnieK401

(541 posts)
11. Then I guess I'd have to die without treatment
Tue May 29, 2012, 05:05 AM
May 2012

The day will come someday anyway. Hopefully I would have just enough time left to do some campaigning against the health insurance industry, and get my family to take over when I'm gone. What's the point of living anyway if you have no money because you have paid it all to some insurance company that has refused to pay for your treatment anyway.

rapersun

(11 posts)
13. EMTALA
Sat Sep 22, 2012, 06:31 PM
Sep 2012

That's not legal. EDs can not charge upfront. You first need to be seen by a doctor.

Now some people ask before accepting tests as they now know their plans don't cover everything.

That is different than paying up front to be seen. That's an EMTALA violation and needs to be reported if true.

 

pipoman

(16,038 posts)
2. I think catastrophic insurance
Mon May 21, 2012, 05:28 PM
May 2012

with a high deductible is the answer under the current insurance scheme. It certainly isn't a great solution, but I look at it that if I have a $2,500 or even $5,000 deductible a hospital and/or doctors won't deny me health care for a serious condition because they know they will recover a lot more after my deductible is met.

That said, it is good to have insurance from a company recognized in your area even if the deductible is high. Insurance companies contract with health care providers for reduced fees for treatment. The provider discounts the services based on the agreement with the insurance company even if you are paying as part of your deductible. If your insurance company isn't common to your area, the providers probably don't have a contractual agreement to reduce their fees.

I recently received a 'this is not a bill' bill for services totaling $286.00. My deductible is not met. The provider submitted the bill to my insurance company. My insurance company didn't pay a dime. The provider did reduce the bill to the contracted amount with my insurance company. When I received the actual bill it was for $94. Now I believe it should be illegal for a health care provider to charge a private payer more than the amount of the lowest price agreed to with an insurance company, but that isn't the case.

Shagman

(135 posts)
5. probably an insurance mill
Tue May 22, 2012, 01:45 PM
May 2012

"60 Minutes" did a piece recently about an outfit that sold this type of policy. It's basically worthless, but to convince you to send in those premiums every month, they'll promise you anything.

The "real" insurance isn't much better. They can refuse to pay for any reason, or for no reason at all. That's what happened when they changed the focus of health care from treating illness to Anything for a Buck.

AnnieK401

(541 posts)
6. Yeah
Tue May 22, 2012, 02:08 PM
May 2012

That's exactly what it is. Like those above said, they claim they can get you a greatly discounted hospital rate. Trying to verify that. I did find out since I had coverage 60 days before I the pre-existing condition clause might not apply. Thanks.

jony12

(6 posts)
12. hi
Fri Aug 31, 2012, 02:34 AM
Aug 2012

I don't like insurance because we are paying for nothing,it is good enough to control and manage your health through care and proper handling.We pay more but get worse coverage than any other developed country. Here the right has turned selfishness and childishness into virtues and we refuse to have a health care system that people can afford.

rapersun

(11 posts)
14. Long but worth it! Rationing of Health Care!
Sat Sep 22, 2012, 06:32 PM
Sep 2012

Just a short note to open up another facet of the Health Care Reform debate.

Are we headed for Health Care Rationing or is it already here???

As the week proceeded, I listened to more news talk shows and some of the debates happening on The Hill.
I caught some of the "interrogation" of the Health Insurance Industry in the Capitol. I found their conviction in their insurance rate hikes quite pitiful. The CEO of Wellpoint disclosed her salary - $1.1 Billion in salary, plus $80,000.00 in bonuses plus $8.5 Billion in Stock Options. She had the nerve to say the company's profit margin was ONLY 4% - well and that totaled $2.9 Billion. She said they needed to raise their premiums 39% to just break even next year - well how about taking some of those overhead costs down a bit - like the CEO's salaries or per diem rates?

So my question at the end of the week was "Aren't we already having our health care rationed?" It sure seems this way to me.

Let's talk about it a little bit.

I've heard the horror stories of the other "socialized" medicine nations - people who die while waiting on surgeries or treatments; procedures being denied, etc....

Well I think we're already doing that in our Nation - the difference is we're not calling it rationing of care. It's being hushed up - not talked about. It's known by another name. It's called "denied service" or "not medically necessary" or worse yet, give me lots of money and we'll do whatever you want.

Once again, lucky for me and my family, right now, I don't have to worry about these scenarios because I've got a great job with great medical benefits. If I want a surgery - whether it's emergent or not, all I have to do is make an appointment and have my doctors say it's OK to do because of my condition. No questions asked, not much paid out of pocket. My doctor and clinic appointment co-payments are next to nothing - $5.00 a visit. My prescriptions, the same $5.00 a piece. And I don't have to pay anything for lab work or x-rays or most procedures. I consider myself one of the lucky few. Maybe you all know someone with this kind of plan - and maybe you're lucky enough to have the same. But I don't think there are a lot of us out there today. And because of my insurance coverage, I don't dare decide that I don't like working where I do - I sure can not afford to go somewhere else.

A few years ago, 60% of families could afford their insurance premiums. Few would consider not having health insurance. Today's figures are more like 30% can afford their insurance premiums and many more are on the brink of trying to decide whether to keep their coverage or not.

Now let's take a look at just one case and tell me it isn't some sort of rationing of care. Say you've suffered from arthritis for a few years, all those years of high impact aerobics or football games in the park from our youthful years. In the morning, as each year passes, it gets harder and harder to get out of bed and more and more anti-inflammatories to get rid of the pain. Now, let's say you're only 30 years old or you're a little bit over weight.

Finally you decide to make an appointment with your doctor to see if you need some sort of joint replacement. After your initial consultation, x-rays are ordered and it's decided that you could use one but it's not an emergency. It's an elective surgery per your insurance company's guidelines. First you're only 30 and you're a little over weight. The insurance company decides they just aren't going to approve the procedure as your x-rays don't lie - your joints just aren't that bad YET. But, don't tell your pain that.

Supposedly, hip surgeries cost between $35,000.00 and $50,000.00 in the U.S. depending where you get them done.

Because you've been denied coverage for this procedure, if you want to have it done, you'll have to pay the entire amount out of your pocket. Now who can afford that? Not anyone I know. So you just won't be able to get it done now, sorry, maybe in 20 years when you're older and your x-rays confirm the pain that you've been having for years. Then your surgery will be paid for.

Isn't this rationing of care? You can't have it done unless you can afford to pay out of pocket for it - or go to another country where it's cheaper. Oh, and in Canada, it would be done - although you may have to wait a year.

Now, let's say, you already pay $1,115.00 a month for your insurance premiums - that's the average cost of an health plan for two - so let's divide it in half. So you already pay $6,690.00 a year for your coverage - which isn't even going to count because they aren't going to cover your surgery.

Let's change the scenario a little bit. Your insurance company now says they'll approve your surgery. But ......you still have co-payments and deductibles to pay. It's still an elective surgery, not emergent. So you're already paying almost $7000.00 a year in premiums. You have had your pre-op appointments and now are getting ready to set your surgery date. The hospital now tells you, you haven't met any of your deductibles for the year and you'll have a co-payment as well.

Your plan has a $3,000.00 per person deductible and a 30% co-payment. These are the types of plans you can get for $1,115.00 per month. Wow! What a plan. That's what we call affordable insurance in this Country. So let's do a little bit of math.

The hospital won't do your surgery unless you can pay the up front fees - because it's not emergent. It can wait. So you have to come up with:

Let's say your surgery is going to cost $42,000.00. That's in the middle of the guesstimate for this type of surgery.

You owe $3,000.00 up front for your deductible. You'll owe $12,600.00 for your co-payment. Again do you know anyone who can just come up with $15,600.00 out of pocket for your surgery. I sure don't.

And that's not even the whole story. You're also going to be off work for at least, at the very least 8 weeks or longer. You'll miss work. If you have vacation or sick time, you're lucky. But if not, you're out of your income as well. If you're lucky, you have short term disability coverage. Let's say you make $30,000.00 a year which is the current median income for individuals per the census figures. That's $5,000.00 you'll lose over 2 months time if you don't have paid vacation or sick time. Now, if you have short-term disability, you can recoup some of that - usually 2/3s. So you'll only lose $1,670.00 out of pocket. But wait, don't forget you'll have to pay income tax on that at the end of the year so you'll have to take $830.00 back out.

So let's do a quick tally.

So even if you have insurance and you have this type of common plan, you'll owe out of pocket....

$15,600.00 in deductibles and co-payments.
$5,000.00 in lost wages if you don't have vacation or sick time.

That's a total of $20,600.00 out of pocket when you have insurance that you're paying $7,000.00 a year for.


If you have short term disability, you'll pay......

$15,600.00 in deductibles and co-payments.
$2,500.00 in lost wages and taxes.

That's a total of $18,100.00 out of pocket when you have insurance that you're paying $7,000.00 a year for.

Now figure on top of that all of the credit card debt that you will be using too if you decide to just bite the bullet and start paying for some of this as you are really having a lot of pain. Think of the new interest rates of 20% if you're carrying balances.

And what if there are complications???

Now take the choice away - what if you have to have emergent surgery and you have these kind of deductibles and co-payments. What if you make $20,000.00 a year instead and you don't have a good job. What if you live paycheck to paycheck? I sure can see how one illness can bankrupt a family. Cant' you?

And if you're going to tell me that the hospitals will work with you on a payment plan - yes they will IF it's an emergency surgery. But they WILL NOT if it's an elective surgery. They demand their money up front or they won't even consider doing the surgery.

Now you tell me this isn't BS. Why do we even have insurance? I find this quite appalling and a bit of a mystery? What kind of Nation are we anyway? What happened to "We the People"? I guess we know the bottom line, the profitability of the insurance companies and even the hospitals and providers are much more important then the health and well being of our citizens.

It's all quite clear to me. There already is rationing. And people are suffering and dying already while waiting to get the care they need and deserve.

Bottom Line - it's here already. And even if you haven't experienced it, it doesn't mean it's not happening to some one else that you already know or may know in the future. We can only hope it never touches us and our loved ones.

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