I'm glad the Rutgers strike is over.

[NNadir]

My son works there, but is not faculty (yet) although he seems to have a path to some kind of adjunct role.

Right now his status is "contractor," no benefits, long hours, but decent pay.

He worked through the strike but of course, although he wasn't in the union, he had great sympathy for it.

Apparently the finances of the university were screwed by worship of football and membership in the so called "Big Ten."

They were the only school not to offer my youngest son a workable scholarship; a private university gave him the equivalent of about 50K a year.

Football!?! What the hell were they thinking. They don't support engineers (or artists) but they love turning out victims of CTE.

I'd be pissed if I were an adjunct there.

[brush]

1. I remember when Rutgers joined the Big 10...

what was it, about 25 or 30 years age? I was surprised as Rutgers, an eastern school, was never a big football school able to compete with the mid-westerm football factories in the Big 10 like Ohio State and Michigan.

Someone must've sold them on the big money the would get from gate receipts from the games. But those schools have huge stadiums holding 100k seats or close to it. Rutgers doesn't. And being not a football power, they can't recruit the top athletes like those long-time football powers can so they'll be losers most of the times.

Guess joining a major football conference didn't work out. They probably should've joined a mid-major conference with schools like them if they were so determined to build a football program.

[NNadir]

2. They built a Stadium for over 50,000 people, a fabulous suite for the players.

They spent tons of money on these things.

The State wonders why they have a hard time retaining the top students from our excellent K-12 program.

I know why. They built a football stadium and luxury atheletic suites instead of giving scholarships to engineers.

Somehow I think we need engineers more than CTE patients.

[brush]

3. Your last sentence, exactly.

[MichMan]

9. They should get rid of all music and art programs as well

Engineers are much more important than trumpet players or picture painters

[NNadir]

10. That is in effect, what they've been doing, but not to promote engineers.

They've declared jocks to be more important than art, music and engineering.

I should know. My son works in the arts at Rutgers. Occassionally members of the faculty break into tears as a result of the funding stress.

I object, but only because I'm not interested in young people bashing their heads into one another for a shot at entering the NFL, where they can have a short career followed by a life of pain.

Somehow I think art and music has some long term value. I'll bet more people care about what Mozart did centuries ago than the do about the score of the 1965 Rose Bowl. If someone insists that the score of Superbowl XX will prove more culturally valuable than say, the paintings of Modigliani, well I guess we have a difference of opinion.

It is true however that over the long term football will be good for the New Jersey's economy, in the sense that treatments for serious neurological disorders does generate jobs for a large array of medical type people, notably neurologists, but also nurses, pharmacists, and support staff in assisted living facilities and memory care facilities.

I have often been denigrated for a lack of enthusiasm for big money sports, but I stand by my right to do so as we steer into the apocalypse parties.

[MichMan]

14. Maybe that is something to campaign for in 2024

Banning football.... that should be popular

Pretty certain it would be a big loser around the Great Lakes States, but maybe it will resonate with NJ voters. Could be with the Detroit Lions, no one would notice.....

[NNadir]

20. I'm sorry that I can't elevate my contempt for the sport to the...

...to a comparable the passion of those who think that that the purpose of educational institutions should be to fill stadiums.

Because Rutgers couldn't "afford" to assist my son in his engineering degrees, it worked out for the best, as he was generously funded right through a Masters degree at a university that valued his intellect and is now in an excellent doctoral program.

They had a football team at his University of course; the weren't very good at playing football but the University did manage to turn out some people who should have fine productive careers before them not tied to jock straps and tailgate parties.

The bottom line is that he is unlikely to return here to work. When Phil Murphy ran for Governor he specifically pointed to this issue in the rally I attended, but it seems we still value football above what I believe would be a more worthy goal.

I'm disgusted that Rutgers values jock straps more than art, more than science, and more than engineering since again, my personal priorities define something other than sports mania as the reason to have universities. I can't really think that placing high value on a game should override the other serious issues before the State of New Jersey.

I fully acknowledge that there are people in New Jersey who are thrilled to contribute to Michigan and and other Big 10 football programs by providing an easy foe to beat, albeit an expensive foe for us, but I would wish to fund other priorities. They're paying the football coach 4 million bucks a year. They could fund the stipends of around 130 graduate students for that money, fulfilling what I personally regard as the prime mission of educational institutions, producing highly educated citizens.

I'm sorry if my opinion offends anyone, but I stand by that opinion.

[brush]

11. Engineers are problem solvers and are needed...

but let's not go too far, life gets boring without the arts...music, theater, films etc. Even engineers must build aesthetic buildings and produce eye-pleasing results or they won't get further projects.

[MichMan]

13. I know, I am one..............

Weren't the Olympics started by the ancient Greeks who also were responsible for much of the foundations of our mathematical knowledge. Clearly, they thought both were important

[brush]

16. Well you know you have to not only solve problems...

you have to do it in aesthetically pleasing ways.

[MichMan]

17. I'm a mechanical engineer, so form follows function

We only care how it works.... how it looks doing so is way down the list...

[MichMan]

4. Rutgers joined the Big 10 in 2014, not 25 or 30 years ago.

It isn't just football, but also basketball. The big benefit for them was being able to share in the revenues from being included in the Big 10 TV network package. Those monies are divided between all the colleges.

Generally, the football and basketball programs at major colleges bring in more revenue than they cost. Those two major sports typically earn enough to subsidize many of the less popular sports for both men and women to some extent. Sports like Volleyball, Gymnastics, and Track and Field that all cost money.

In addition, when Rutgers for example, plays at the University of Michigan, in their stadium seating over 100k, Rutgers gets some portion of that ticket revenue as the visiting team at those away games.

[NNadir]

6. I suppose that was the theory, that it would make money, but...

...in reality it's bleeding money at the expense of students, staff, and faculty.

New Jersyians are familiar with losing bets; we once had a guy who owned a bunch of casinos and was incompetent enough to go bankrupt. His name is Donald Trump.

From my perspective education should be a priority over sports, and gambling on sports, increasingly popular everywhere, was not, and is not, the role of educational institutions, or shouldn't be.

[MichMan]

7. Sounds like you believe in abolishing all athletic programs in schools.

I bet the students wouldn't be in favor. Does their opinion matter?

The athletic department as a whole is a money loser when you include track and field, swimming, softball, baseball, tennis, gymnastics, rowing, wrestling, and all the other sports that are an integral part of college life. Football and Men's basketball provide revenues to offset those sports. Collegiate sports are very important to attract students, and the alumni and corporations and sponsors that provide donations to the university as a whole.

Not sure what gambling has to do with Rutger's athletic programs ?

[NNadir]

21. You bet...

You bet...

You bet...

I'll bet that my oldest son who was a Rutgers student, and is now a Rutgers employer is pissed off about the football focus. So were many of his classmates, and so are all the faculty in the department where he now works.

Does his opinion matter.

As for gambling, the Rutgers board gambled on building a hundred million dollar stadium on borrowed money and paying a coach 4 million dollars a year, and the students lost.

I don't think anyone seeks to go to Princeton because of the football team (they have one, the stadium is next to the Lewis science library), or Harvard, or Carnegie Mellon, or MIT or Cal Tech.

I note that the focus on football prevented my youngest son, an outstanding student, from going to Rutgers. This may be amazing, but there are some people who think academics are very important to attract students, and when you're cutting academic programs, because somebody thinks football is more important than those academics, you're losing students.

I mean if it's really all that important to watch football games, go to school in Alabama, not Rutgers.

I don't know what kind of students you think Rutgers should attract; personally I would hope that it would be designed to attract students who want to engage in intellectual pursuits.

I suppose that there are colleges that want to attract the tailgating crowd, but I wouldn't want to be educated at such a school. (I wasn't.)

[MichMan]

22. It's not like it is tradition or anything; Football there has only been around for 164 years.

The Rutgers Scarlet Knights are the athletic teams that represent Rutgers University's New Brunswick campus. In sports, Rutgers is famously known for being the "Birthplace of College Football", hosting the first ever intercollegiate football game on November 6, 1869, in which Rutgers defeated a team from the College of New Jersey (now Princeton University) with a score of 6 runs to 4

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rutgers_Scarlet_Knights

[brush]

12. You're right about when Rutgers joined the Big 10.

I mistakenly remember back when they first played Notre Dame and I was surprised that they had stepped into big league scheduling.

As fa as football and basketball subsidizing other sports that's usually true but it doesn't seem to be working at Rutgers, according to the OP.

[MichMan]

15. Notre Dame has never been part of the Big 10 though

[brush]

18. Oh I know, it's always been an independent but is big time...

and plays nationally ranked teams.

[MichMan]

19. ND stays independent because they don't want to share any TV revenues with schools like Rutgers

Or merchandising. Most of that with Big 10 teams is pooled and distributed to all of them.

[3Hotdogs]

5. N.J is not a football state --- Lived here all 80 years of my life.

Until the 60's, local football was big. Stands were crowded on Saturday afternoons. Anyone who wasn't working, showed up at the games. Former players would show up, wearing their varsity jackets (some were quite worn but still worn proudly).



From the mid 60's on, fewer people cared. Maybe a couple'a hundred people show up. Mostly relatives of the players.

[MichMan]

8. Rutgers home attendance in Football in 2022 averaged close to 50k per game

Clearly substantially more than a few hundred.

[3Hotdogs]

23. Sorry, I was meaning local high school football.