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Saviolo

(3,282 posts)
Mon Jul 18, 2016, 02:25 PM Jul 2016

Chinese Media Is Now Warning Canada’s Housing Crash Will Be Worse Than The US

There's been a lot of ink spilled lately about Canadian real estate and foreign (largely Chinese) ownership of Canadian property, and its effect on the Canadian housing bubble. There was recently a thread here in the Canada group about the homeless came in Victoria: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10875877

and The Walrus recently had an article about how our hesitance to "blame" Chinese investors for pricing working Canadians out of the housing market is hurting the poor here at home: https://thewalrus.ca/how-political-correctness-is-hurting-the-poor/

But Better Dwelling went to Chinese media (yes, it's state sponsored, take with a grain of salt) who claim that our housing crash will be worse than the US. A potentially big chunk of this sort of information is designed to keep Chinese capital in China. But here's the article: https://betterdwelling.com/city/vancouver/chinese-media-now-warning-canadas-housing-crash-will-worse-us/

And some exerpts:

Shots fired! While our media has been pointing out how Chinese buyers are driving up real estate prices, the Chinese media has been dissecting our economy, government, and warning Chinese buyers of the dangers of owning Canadian real estate.

We’re always curious to know how other countries interpret our statistics, political climate and what outside media is reporting about Canada’s economy. Since China has been a hot button subject in Canadian news recently, we thought it was high time we took a look at how Canada is portrayed in China’s State regulated media. While the Chinese media does acknowledge that Chinese buyers are a contributing factor to our prices – and admit they have been capitalizing on it – they also point out some interesting observations that our media has failed to cover. Here are the most interesting points we found from three major Chinese publications.

Hexun, China’s largest finance portal, recently published an article pointing to Canada’s debt fueled economy. They noted that Canadians have the largest debt-to-income ratio of any G7 country, with the average spending 165% of their salary. To contrast, at the height of the US housing crisis in 2008, Americans carried what was then considered an outlandish 147% debt-to-income ratio – 17 points lower than where we currently sit. Canada’s total household debt reached $1.892 trillion dollars, with $1.234 trillion dollars of that as mortgage debt – roughly 65% more than we make per year. To put that 1.82 trillion dollars into perspective, we could have run the US government for 8 months with that amount of money.

Sina.com’s real estate partner, and NYSE listed Leju was quick to point out that while the average home price in Vancouver is up more than 30%, the province is in a state of “stagflation.” Stagflation is a fancy word that describes when the cost of living increases but there is stagnant demand in the economy. They go on to say BC has one of the lowest median incomes in the country, and the BC government is hoping rising home prices will “render some good”.

While they didn’t put statistics to those statements, we recently published an article that showed Vancouver’s home prices have risen 172% in the last 15 years, while income has only moved up 10%. The struggle in VanCity is real.


The article seems a little threadbare on facts, to me, but one thing stood out to me as being straight up wrong. It says:
other cities like Toronto, that have substantially more international buyers, are not having discussions about “vacancy taxes” and “restrictions”.

But that's not true. I've heard this bandied about a little around City Hall, though mostly it is being denounced by folks like Tory as a non-starter. It has been brought up, though.

Anyway... I don't really have a horse in this race. I don't see my way ever being clear of renting at this point in my life, but we'll see what happens, I suppose. I've got some friends who are looking to buy houses. I've also got some friends who work in Toronto, but have bought homes in Mississauga and Hamilton because there are no houses that you can afford in Toronto proper anywhere.

Food for thought.
9 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Chinese Media Is Now Warning Canada’s Housing Crash Will Be Worse Than The US (Original Post) Saviolo Jul 2016 OP
Don't worry, Canada, they're coming south now Warpy Jul 2016 #1
I highly recommend the Greater Fool blog Fiendish Thingy Jul 2016 #2
The lower mainland needs the bubble to burst. EllieBC Jul 2016 #3
Toronto's facing the same thing Saviolo Jul 2016 #4
There are homes in the lower mainland EllieBC Jul 2016 #5
We complain a lot in Toronto Saviolo Jul 2016 #6
They need more than low income housing. EllieBC Jul 2016 #7
it's happening in southern Ontario too. canuckledragger Jul 2016 #9
Actually, even moreso HEyHEY Jul 2016 #8

Warpy

(111,254 posts)
1. Don't worry, Canada, they're coming south now
Mon Jul 18, 2016, 02:50 PM
Jul 2016

that they've priced your market up to the stratosphere. They'll be snapping up properties in the big cities off the west coast soon, something they're building super towers in Miami to attract.

What remains to be seen is if Trump's glitzy penis in the sky in Vancouver gets completed and attracts them back there.

Fiendish Thingy

(15,601 posts)
2. I highly recommend the Greater Fool blog
Mon Jul 18, 2016, 11:44 PM
Jul 2016

For honest insight on the insane Canadian real estate market.

Www.greaterfool.ca

EllieBC

(3,014 posts)
3. The lower mainland needs the bubble to burst.
Wed Jul 20, 2016, 06:37 PM
Jul 2016

Families are being forced out of Vancouver, Richmond, Surrey, Squamish, and Whistler. Victoria on the island as well.

There will be no one left to support these areas. People are heading to the Okanagan or just out of BC completely.

Saviolo

(3,282 posts)
4. Toronto's facing the same thing
Wed Jul 20, 2016, 09:48 PM
Jul 2016

People are leaving Toronto for Mississauga, Brampton, Brantford, Markham, Oshawa, Barrie, even Hamilton.

EllieBC

(3,014 posts)
5. There are homes in the lower mainland
Wed Jul 20, 2016, 11:15 PM
Jul 2016

going for over $2million that would probably be $400k in the prairies. And maybe $200k say somewhere like Pennsylvania.

There are few to no actual apartment rentals through most of the lower mainland. It's all single owner condos where your landlord can and probably will sell out from under you. And no one...neither the NDP nor the Liberals seem to care (I'm excluding the Conservatives because we already know they don't care).

Saviolo

(3,282 posts)
6. We complain a lot in Toronto
Thu Jul 21, 2016, 09:36 AM
Jul 2016

But Vancouver is in far worse shape. So is Montreal.

Interestingly, a few buildings going up in Toronto right now that were originally advertised as condos have been switched before construction completed to being rental apartment buildings. I think some developers are seeing the writing on the wall and are hoping to mitigate the bubble a little so it doesn't all collapse at once. I still haven't seen what they're expecting to charge for these rental properties, but I suspect they won't be exactly low-income housing given their locations.

And I feel like the NDP and the Liberals can't afford to care. Developers are huge driving economic forces, and they don't care if there are empty condos owned by foreign investors, so long as they sell their units. Those developers are a powerful lobbying force, and also a huge source of income to the various regulatory bodies they have to pay for permits, inspections, etc... no level of government in Canada is going to stand up to developers, you can take that to the bank.

To say nothing of my suspicions of arson on behalf of the developers. A small fire breaks out in an old house in a heritage neighbourhood in Toronto, and THE NEXT DAY (no exaggeration) the sign goes up that this is now the sales office for a new development. Super sketch.

EllieBC

(3,014 posts)
7. They need more than low income housing.
Thu Jul 21, 2016, 10:58 AM
Jul 2016

It seems like here in BC it's either low income housing or condos/single family houses. All the people in the middle are getting squeezed out. I've written the NDP housing critic (at provincial level) several times and received emails back telling me how the NDP is "deeply concerned" and "passionate" about protecting BC's middle income families and working class.

They apparently aren't passionate or concerned enough to raise a real fuss though.

I think we will be prairie bound eventually as well. And I feel bad for hoping the bubble bursts in an ugly ugly way.

Edited to add: I think part of what makes it worse here than back east is the wages are so much lower. Wages aren't keeping up with rising costs even a little. Minimum wage is $10.45 an hour.

canuckledragger

(1,636 posts)
9. it's happening in southern Ontario too.
Wed Jul 27, 2016, 09:24 PM
Jul 2016

In my hometown (Kingston Ontario) the ones that own and develop the real estate here are pricing the new homes they build on that land way out of the range of regular working folks here. $400,000 and up in a lot of cases.

Kingston doesn't have much of a manufacturing base anymore, and most of the jobs here for folks starting out are service industry...minimum wage and not much else, regardless of school or training. the depressed economy is why the call centers have been sniffing around here (and established a beachhead in the form of Startek and a few other others)

The only ones I know here that have homes they're not renting are the ones that had homes willed to them from their parents...that none can afford to repair.

I think it's been designed this way.

HEyHEY

(45,977 posts)
8. Actually, even moreso
Mon Jul 25, 2016, 12:47 AM
Jul 2016

This article MAY not just be about trying to keep money from leaving China, but an ultimate warning that a crackdown is imminent.

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