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[Hiawatha Pete]

This message was self-deleted by its author (Hiawatha Pete) on Sun Sep 19, 2021, 01:11 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[Spazito]

1. Living in Alberta, voting strategically is always the best choice, imo...

It's whomever has the best, albeit remote, chance of beating the Con here.

[Spazito]

4. Thanks for the links!

My riding is St. Albert-Edmonton and, interestingly, the NDP and the Liberals are tied, Libs 23%, NDP 24%. The Con is 45% which is surprisingly low for a Con here.

[applegrove]

8. Fantastic.

[Fiendish Thingy]

5. Bullshit- strategic voting is just an attempt to move Canada to a US style 2 party system

Fuck that shit - first of all, my riding currently has a Green MP; if he is re-elected, that’s not going to put O’Toole in as PM; if he’s replaced by the NDP candidate (who I voted for), same thing- that won’t cause the Conservatives to win.

What will cause the Conservatives to take power is if Liberals lose enough seats that they currently hold, and that mainly comes down to turn out.

The critical omission in the meme in the OP is that of the PPC (Canadian anti-vaxxer fascist party) leader/spoiler Maxim Bernier - current polling shows a not-insignificant number of Conservative voters switching to PPC. Bernier will be lucky to win his own riding, and most agree that no other PPC candidate has a chance of winning. If enough Con voters switch to PPC, Trudeau is safe.

I love living in a country where five parties hold seats in parliament; I hope Trudeau retains a minority government made possible by the support of the NDP.

If Trudeau loses, it will be his own damn fault for calling a snap election in the midst of a pandemic, shortly following a corruption scandal (or two, or three) in his administration.

[True Dough]

6. Well stated, Fiendish Thingy

My wife and I are pro NDP all the way. We'll be damned if "strategic voting" is going to sway us one iota.

[Hiawatha Pete]

11. Nice moniker

nothing for O'Toole though?

I thought DU had a policy against attacking democratic/liberal figures.

[True Dough]

16. I have 12 posts here for every one of yours

and I've never been banned from the DU.

I absolutely espouse liberal values, but not from a leader whose integrity is shot. The Ethics Commission (an independent figure) has shown that again and again.

Jagmeet Singh is the candidate who best represents the left in Canada now. He has my full-throated support, and that is support for a true liberal LEADER.

[Hiawatha Pete]

17. Yeah, I have no interest in parroted talking points

taken from #2TierOtoole

1) Trudeau rejected JWR's nomination of an inexperienced conservative as chief justice who wanted to roll back our Charter Rights:
https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/sources-say-trudeau-rejected-wilson-rayboulds-conservative-pick-for-high-court-507626452.html

2) Jody's father in law, John Raybould is one of the founders of the Fraser Institute:

Link to tweet

On the other hand, if any of your many posts on DU mention:

1) How Democracy Watch is suing the Integrity Commissioner For Letting Conservative Party-Connected Lobbyists Lobby the Ford Cabinet Unethically. Many of whom are in senior PC positions while continuing to lobby Ford Cabinet on long-term care:
https://www.unpublishedottawa.com/letter/323453/democracy-watch-sues-integrity-commissioner-letting-fordpc-party-connected-lobbyists


2) Or how Global reporter Mercedes Stephenson's husband Dan Mader worked for Erin O'Toole in his leadership campaign:

3) Or how The Columnist Who Covers Doug Ford for the Toronto Sun Lives with Doug Ford’s Press Secretary:
https://www.canadaland.com/brian-lilley-ivana-yelich-doug-ford/

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

?s=20

4) Or how Harper lackey, former road-construction-firm-partner-turned-transport minister Chuck Strahl, attacked VIA Rail's meager funding in 2012,
after which VIA "mysteriously" cuts routes stranding thousands of travelers & commuters despite being considered a remote essential service:
- https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/03/17/via_rail_cuts_strand_smalltown_travellers.html

- https://beachburg.blogspot.com/2017/03/ten-ways-to-revitalize-via-rail-canada_27.html

- https://www.bctrucking.com/bulletin/2010/08/12/bc%E2%80%99s-chuck-strahl-new-federal-minister-transport-infrastructure-and-communities

-

5) Or if they mention any of the other conflicts of interest by the CONs too numerous too list, then we can talk.

Otherwise, welcome to my ignore list.

[True Dough]

22. There's just one thing you need to remember, "Pete"

[Hiawatha Pete]

24. Yes I agree, anyone is better than conservative. n/t

[True Dough]

25. We can agree to that much, almost

I would tolerate a Conservative over a PPC candidate, but I'd still never vote for either.

[Hiawatha Pete]

26. Never will I tolerate a #2TierOtoole govt (see my prior responses above). Or PPC

LIB Minority- yes
LIB Majority- yes

NDP Minority or Majority- Yes. And since we're now talking about parties that have zero chance of forming a gov't (though if NDP is ahead in your riding, I hope they win there) - even Greens, Yes

[Hiawatha Pete]

12. Nah, this explains it best

Last edited Mon Sep 13, 2021, 04:38 PM - Edit history (2)

"The Conservative Party wins elections by using the progressive split in their favour, usually with less than 37% of the popular vote. This has left the remaining 63% of Canadians – progressives – out of the government for 3 consecutive elections"

http://www.strategicvoting.ca/

Of course you like everyone else are entitled to their own opinions.

And for the record, provincially I strategically voted for the NDP in 2018 as they were ahead in my riding.

Likewise if Greens are ahead in your riding then you should vote Greens (in my opinion)

[Hiawatha Pete]

14. I thought DU had a policy against flaming democratic/liberal figures

Oh and that so called corruption scandal?

I suppose it has nothing at all to do with Trudeau rejecting JWR's nomination of an inexperienced conservative as chief justice who wanted to roll back our Charter Rights:

1) https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/sources-say-trudeau-rejected-wilson-rayboulds-conservative-pick-for-high-court-507626452.html

Raybould's pick Justice "Joyal had previously criticized the judiciary for having interpreted charter rights "broadly"...
Those interpretations have helped to enshrine rights such as a woman’s right to choose to have an abortion as well as the legalization of same-sex marriage — both issues on which Trudeau has focused closely"
https://globalnews.ca/news/5100221/manitoba-bar-association-glenn-joyal/

2) Or that Jodi's father in law, John Raybould is one of the founders of the Fraser Institute:

Link to tweet

?lang=en

[Fiendish Thingy]

15. The Democratic Party stops at the 49th parallel- doesn't exist in Canada

TOS says nothing about parties in other countries.

I wasn’t flaming, I merely pointed out Trudeau’s terrible timing in calling this election, including the pandemic and more than one incident involving his party/administration around ethics and corruption that haven’t been adequately addressed IMO, and have left him vulnerable.

As flawed as JWR may be, Trudeau chose her to be his AG- if the buck stops at the top, he must bear some responsibility. The SNC-Lavlin and WE charity issues have not been resolved satisfactorily IMO, and Trudeau may suffer at the ballot box because of it.

[Hiawatha Pete]

18. As I mentioned to "True Dough" I have no interest in parroted talking points from #2TierOtoole

On the other hand, if any of your many posts on DU mention:

1) How Democracy Watch is suing the Integrity Commissioner For Letting Conservative Party-Connected Lobbyists Lobby the Ford Cabinet Unethically. Many of whom are in senior PC positions while continuing to lobby Ford Cabinet on long-term care:
https://www.unpublishedottawa.com/letter/323453/democracy-watch-sues-integrity-commissioner-letting-fordpc-party-connected-lobbyists


2)Or how Global reporter Mercedes Stephenson's husband Dan Mader worked for Erin O'Toole in his leadership campaign:

3) Or how The Columnist Who Covers Doug Ford for the Toronto Sun Lives with Doug Ford’s Press Secretary:
https://www.canadaland.com/brian-lilley-ivana-yelich-doug-ford/

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

?s=20

4) Or how Harper lackey, former road-construction-firm-partner-turned-transport minister Chuck Strahl, attacked VIA Rail's meager funding in 2012,
after which VIA "mysteriously" cuts routes stranding thousands of travelers & commuters despite being considered a remote essential service:
- https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/03/17/via_rail_cuts_strand_smalltown_travellers.html

- https://beachburg.blogspot.com/2017/03/ten-ways-to-revitalize-via-rail-canada_27.html

- https://www.bctrucking.com/bulletin/2010/08/12/bc%E2%80%99s-chuck-strahl-new-federal-minister-transport-infrastructure-and-communities

-

5) Or if they mention any of the other conflicts of interest by the CONs too numerous too list, then we can talk.

[Fiendish Thingy]

20. Indeed. The Liberals aren't the only party in Canada with ethical and corruption issues. Nt

[Hiawatha Pete]

23. Actually there's nothing wrong with the Liberal Party at all

as far as myself and millions of other Canadians are concerned.

The "ethical and corruption" projections by the cons are bunk.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57106948

Regardless I can live with a minority Liberal govt with NDP holding the balance of power*

Some NDP'ers who I've met cannot.

* or even an NDP one if they ever have a path to forming a govt sometime in the next 50 years.

[Hiawatha Pete]

19. Finally, if NDP supporters are wondering why Trudeau called an election,

They should ask their party why the NDP stalled bill C21 and other legislation in parliament.

And lets be honest, do we really believe the pandemic will be over in another 20 months or so at the end of Trudeau's mandate when a election has to be called?

We have this thing called mail in and advance polling. There was no-one at our polling station when my wife & I dropped off our ballots.

[Fiendish Thingy]

21. Yeah, we mailed our ballots in too, although our polling place has apparently been quite busy

High turnout is the best for a healthy democracy IMO.

[pandr32]

7. Stunned at so many areas voting Conservative

I have family in Canada and our right-wing media influence seems to be leaking through. Canada needs to protect the environment and natural resources--not exploit them more.
Also--the encroachment of U.S. franchises and big stores are ruining communities.

[Fiendish Thingy]

30. I've lived in Canada for 10 years and have yet to find a RW media source on the level of Fox.

Meaning television, not batshit Facebook pages.

There are plenty of Canadian Chuck Todd types for sure.

[Hiawatha Pete]

31. 1) Rebel Media

2) The entire Post Media network (including the Toronto Sun types who spawned the Rebel) who have all the slime of FOX & Rebel, but more sneaky without quite the same level of crudeness


3) Global News conflict of interest poster child Mercedes Stephenson
(again, all the slime but without the crudeness)


Not that it matters, but I've lived here for 50. If you think that not being on TV stops outfits like Rebel from throwing our political discourse back 50 years... well you know, bridge in Brooklyn for sale and all that.

[applegrove]

9. Borrowing this, Thanks