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Fri Mar 4, 2022, 11:05 AM

Spazito (46,803 posts)

'Kyiv' or 'Kiev' -- Here's why the difference is political

Last edited Fri Mar 4, 2022, 11:50 AM - Edit history (1)

As Russian forces continue to attack Ukraine's cities, forcing more than a million people flee the country so far, onlookers around the world may be noticing different spellings and pronunciations of the name of the country's capital.

CBC has been using a transliteration based on the Ukrainian spelling of the name: "Kyiv" (pronounced "KEE-ef" ). The Russian version is "Kiev" (pronounced "kee-EV" ).

snip

Khanenko-Friesen says the spelling and pronunciation of "Kyiv" is significant during this "time of aggravated assault on the sovereignty and integrity of the Ukrainian state."

"Using, right now, the Ukrainian pronunciation of ... the capital is a very small choice one can do in recognition that Ukraine does have the right to exist as an independent nation, contrary to what Vladimir Putin has been stating in his recent statements and addresses to his nation."

more

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/cbc-pronunciation-kyiv-ukraine-crisis-explainer-1.6371766

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17 replies	Author	Time	Post
'Kyiv' or 'Kiev' -- Here's why the difference is political (Original post)	Spazito	Mar 2022	OP
A serious distinction. Just like Ukraine vs the Ukraine.	niyad	Mar 2022	#1
Yes, both are important distinctions for sure...	Spazito	Mar 2022	#2
Not certain this is correct.	fizzix137	Mar 2022	#3
If you listen to the video in this article you might find it...	Spazito	Mar 2022	#5
I had a family member posted to Kyiv - she corrected my pronunciation many times - and I learned.	erronis	Mar 2022	#9
For consistency, we should also be using the Ukrainian spellings	COL Mustard	Mar 2022	#14
Thank you,	barbtries	Mar 2022	#4
I didn't understand the difference either until reading this...	Spazito	Mar 2022	#6
In my mind Kiev belongs to the era of the Soviet Union.	mwooldri	Mar 2022	#7
Well said!	Spazito	Mar 2022	#8
Well, I don't order Beijing Duck anymore either. Miss it tho.	erronis	Mar 2022	#10
Some things didn't change with Beijing/Peking.	mwooldri	Mar 2022	#12
I'd also like to know the correct transliteration of "Zelenskyy"	nuxvomica	Mar 2022	#11
BUT correct Ukrainian transcription is KYJIV!	TomWilm	Mar 2022	#13
As far as pronunciation, I wish I could find the video	Laura PourMeADrink	Mar 2022	#15
There is a video in this article doing exactly that...	Spazito	Mar 2022	#16
Thanks you're right that's it. Thank you so much	Laura PourMeADrink	Mar 2022	#17

Response to Spazito (Original post)

Fri Mar 4, 2022, 11:07 AM

niyad (96,837 posts)

1. A serious distinction. Just like Ukraine vs the Ukraine.

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Response to niyad (Reply #1)

Fri Mar 4, 2022, 11:08 AM

Spazito (46,803 posts)

2. Yes, both are important distinctions for sure...

especially at this critical time.

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Response to Spazito (Original post)

Fri Mar 4, 2022, 11:51 AM

fizzix137 (17 posts)

3. Not certain this is correct.

When I learned Russian many years ago we all had trouble correctly pronouncing Kiev. As Americans, we said kee EV. The spelling in Russian is phonetically k ee yeh v, with stress on the first syllable. The unstressed ye becomes more like an ee and a v at the end loses its "voice" and becomes an f. So something like kee-eef results. We usually said keeEV among ourselves since it was so ingrained in us. It's been decades since I knew much Russian so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

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Response to fizzix137 (Reply #3)

Fri Mar 4, 2022, 12:06 PM

Spazito (46,803 posts)

5. If you listen to the video in this article you might find it...

helpful as it explains the difference and vocalizes the pronunciation of both words.

It is important, imo, to begin to use the Ukrainian pronunciation rather than the Russian one to indicate one's support for Ukraine and give them the respect they deserve.

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Response to fizzix137 (Reply #3)

Fri Mar 4, 2022, 01:48 PM

erronis (12,113 posts)

9. I had a family member posted to Kyiv - she corrected my pronunciation many times - and I learned.

Same for "The Ukraine". Should be Ukraine (UKR), since "The Ukraine" implies an area such as "The Rockies" or "Bible Belt".

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Response to erronis (Reply #9)

Fri Mar 4, 2022, 01:58 PM

COL Mustard (4,535 posts)

14. For consistency, we should also be using the Ukrainian spellings

For their cities, and for the most part we are. Odesa (Odessa), Lviv (Lvov), Kharkiv (Kharkov), etc.

Of course then we'd get into the German cities like Nürnberg (Nuremberg) and München (Munich).....

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Response to Spazito (Original post)

Fri Mar 4, 2022, 11:54 AM

barbtries (27,087 posts)

4. Thank you,

i did not know that.

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Response to barbtries (Reply #4)

Fri Mar 4, 2022, 12:08 PM

Spazito (46,803 posts)

6. I didn't understand the difference either until reading this...

and listening to the video on the pronunciation of both words. I found it very helpful.

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Response to Spazito (Original post)

Fri Mar 4, 2022, 01:36 PM

mwooldri (10,125 posts)

7. In my mind Kiev belongs to the era of the Soviet Union.

Kyiv is for present day Ukraine. We don't call Mumbai Bombay any more, we don't call Beijing Peking.

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Response to mwooldri (Reply #7)

Fri Mar 4, 2022, 01:42 PM

Spazito (46,803 posts)

8. Well said!

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Response to mwooldri (Reply #7)

Fri Mar 4, 2022, 01:49 PM

erronis (12,113 posts)

10. Well, I don't order Beijing Duck anymore either. Miss it tho.

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Response to erronis (Reply #10)

Fri Mar 4, 2022, 01:55 PM

mwooldri (10,125 posts)

12. Some things didn't change with Beijing/Peking.

The main university is still called Peking University. And as for that duck....

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Response to Spazito (Original post)

Fri Mar 4, 2022, 01:49 PM

nuxvomica (11,310 posts)

11. I'd also like to know the correct transliteration of "Zelenskyy"

I have been trying to remember the second "y" in writing.

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Response to Spazito (Original post)

Fri Mar 4, 2022, 01:58 PM

TomWilm (1,757 posts)

13. BUT correct Ukrainian transcription is KYJIV!

Kyiv is just the more correct ENGLISH way...

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Response to Spazito (Original post)

Fri Mar 4, 2022, 02:16 PM

Laura PourMeADrink (40,768 posts)

15. As far as pronunciation, I wish I could find the video

From a Ukrainian who was trying to correct everyone. It is nothing like anyone is saying now including anyone on tv.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #15)

Fri Mar 4, 2022, 02:21 PM

Spazito (46,803 posts)

16. There is a video in this article doing exactly that...

explaining why English speakers have difficulty pronouncing Kyiv the way Ukrainians do, she pronounces Kyiv both ways. It is quite educational.

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Response to Spazito (Reply #16)

Fri Mar 4, 2022, 02:40 PM

Laura PourMeADrink (40,768 posts)

17. Thanks you're right that's it. Thank you so much

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