If the system is rigged, how did Obama win in 2008?

[realmirage]

Obama, a new Senator running a grass roots campaign without the backing of the "establishment," got more votes and got the Super Delegates to support him once he started getting more votes from the people.

How is it that Obama could do it and Bernie could not? Is it the fault of the establishment and the system, or the candidate?

[tonyt53]

1. He released his tax returns. Says a lot about Obama AND Bernie at the same time.

[sandyshoes17]

2. He was an establishment candidate

I voted for Obama 2x, but he was still the establishment pick. He is corporate, not as bad as Hillary. They pick our candidates not us.

[pengu]

5. Ted Kennedy put his weight behind him

Obama had quite a bit more establishment support than Bernie. Meanwhile, Clinton's had 8 years to get her people in place while she stewed over the 2008 loss. cough DWS cough

[realmirage]

10. I hope you and sandyshoes take note that you have not been instantly banned for discussing

issues here, as we would surely have been in the BS group.

[Cha]

14. That's just because I hadn't read them yet.. they're not "discussing issues".. they're

regurgitating "establishment".

[realmirage]

20. Lol

Best to keep this last sanctuary an actual sanctuary

[Cha]

16. Oh look @ here.. another one who doesn't have one clue..

Not one.. what you're talking about. But, doesn't stop you from getting on a Democratic Political Message Board and acting like you know something this.

Clue: Ya don't

[KittyWampus]

40. You are saying CLINTON put DWS in charge of the DNC? Really? LOLZ

SFS.

[Her Sister]

7. Someone in government since he got a serious job and he is not establishment ?? 20 PLUS YEARS!!!

G.O.T.T.A. B.E. K.I.D.D.I.N.G. M.E. !.!.

[BlueMTexpat]

17. + a million! eom

[Cha]

18. I'm so sick of that gd word "establishment".. BS called Human Rights Campaign and Planned

Parenthood "establishment" because they didn't endorse him. He said the Congress people who endorsed Hillary were "establishment" .. that would include John Lewis.

It's just a word his fans regurgitate and I won't buy into.. although burnie's one of the biggest establishments out there.

[realmirage]

25. Right, it's the "establishment" that has been

kicking GOP ass while Sanders has been mostly irrelevant and NOT a democrat

[Jamaal510]

33. I almost can't believe

that no one on cable news or progressive radio has been blasting this point yet. How can one be an "outsider" when s/he has been in D.C. for multiple decades?

[KittyWampus]

41. Got his wife a seat on that Texas Board involved w/shipping nuclear waste to Texas

on top of a minority community- but he's not establishment.

Landed some F-35's in Vermont- but he's not establishment.

Had NRA help him get elected because they were pissed at the other guy- but he's not establishment.

[realmirage]

9. Obama was definitely much less establishment than Hillary

Hillary had all the old party loyals, and the SDs, supporting her. Obama had almost no record, courted young voters with his "change" message, and started flipping the SDs as early as Feb 2008 when he started winning. He didn't have the backing of the establishment. Hillary did. Sanders' proposals are not against what the DNC wants. And remember, Sanders, up until the NY primary, was sticking to a positive message, mostly friendly to the DNC and Hillary, and had the people given him more votes than Hillary, the SDs would already have mostly flipped to him as they did to Obama in 08. The "system" goes along with the voters. Obama did it, Sanders did not. Why? That's the question.

[TwilightZone]

13. Sanders is a career politician. He's part of the one of the most exclusive clubs in the US.

To say he isn't part of the establishment is ludicrous.

[Cha]

15. Nah, sorry .. you have no clue about all the progressives issues that have been implemented

under the Obama Admin for the last almost 8 years. But, here you are reducing his Excellent Accomplishments to "establishment".. some silly buzz word you picked up some place from someone who had no idea what the hell he was talking about.

Btw, BS LOST.. and Hillary's going to be the next POTUS.

[BobbyDrake]

3. The Illuminati, yo. OBVIOUSLY. Don't you know anything???

It's, like, totally clear to see, but only if you're smart enough to decode it properly.

[Hekate]

28. Oooo, I lke that. It's full of all like secret passwords and stuff!

[fleabiscuit]

4. BS, release those taxes!

[Her Sister]

8. ooohh oooh reminder!

gotta make my call!

[Cha]

22. Too late.. he lost.. nobody cares about his damn taxes.. lol

[Her Sister]

23. Cha I still care! lol!

I wannna wanna wanna at em taxes! I do! silly me! but I do!

[Cha]

24. Yeah, it would be great to see why he's not releasing them.. why he stalled so long

that he's already LOST before jane could find them or do them.. or whatever their latest excuse was.

[realmirage]

26. As soon as Jane figures out how to print a tax sheet

she's gonna help run a country.

[Her Sister]

29. and a college!

or two!

[realmirage]

31. Yeah, colleges use a lot of printers

Probably why the college went under, and was most likely a conspiracy by Hewlett Packard

[Her Sister]

32. ah and some nuclear-ish waste to dump somewhere not Vermot

eom

[realmirage]

34. How dare you! All anti BS comments

are paid for by the illuminati.

[Her Sister]

37. Hee heee

You went ballistic there!

[fleabiscuit]

35. No peeing in the pool!

Cha!

[Cha]

36. Not me, flea~

[LiberalFighter]

6. Obama had it more difficult in 2008 than Sanders in 2016

There were fewer pledged and more unpledged delegates in 2008.

2008 Delegates
Pledged: 3566
Unpledged: 852 (19.3%)
Total Delegates: 4,418

2016 Delegates
Pledged: 4051
Unpledged: 714 (14.9%)
Total Delegates: 4,765

[realmirage]

11. And he is African American with "Hussein" for a middle name

when no African American had ever gotten close to winning the presidency. No real record or experience, no campaign financial machine as Hillary had from the start... And yet he won. Those darned minorities had to go and vote for him. Those same minorities Sanders didn't pay attention to for the last 25 years. If only the Southern voters could have been disenfranchised, as some BS supporters wish, BS could have won.

[caquillo]

12. Don't forget his surname

Obama, which is very similar to Osama, save one letter. Seriously, I thought his last name would do him in.

[realmirage]

42. yeah, too bad the system is rigged or Obama might have been President!

[beardown]

19. By supporting many of the corporate dems positions.

You brought up a valid 'check point', but I believe that Obama winning shows it's rigged for candidates with the corporate approved positions and connections.

Obama was probably new to the establishment as opposed to being outside of the establishment as he seemed to have no problem at all picking a great number of 'establishment' members to his team. I believe that he was mostly outside of the Hillary establishment than he was the establishment itself.

Good question by the way.

[Cha]

21. President Obama has been an excellent Progressive President and Hillary

will be, too.

BS lost.. I think partly because he set himself up to be so pure and everyone else is "evil".. which couldn't be further from the truth.

[Thinkingabout]

27. Agree, Obama is a good president, Hillary will be a good president.

[realmirage]

30. "Rigged" as in he didn't get as many votes as Hillary?

Obama showed he could get more votes with the right message and approach. His staff didn't call a secret number to get minorities to vote for him. If Bernie had thought more about minorities and been more involved in their lives he could have beat Hillary. Instead, it's Hillary who has done that, and Hillary got minorities and women to vote for her. Bernie did not. That's not a rigged system, that's democracy. That's getting out what you put in. That's reality.

[stopbush]

38. Yeah, the D system is rigged so establishment candidates get the nomination,

guys like Obama and Bill Clinton and Dukakis and even Jimmy Carter. Pure establishment candidates all.

[realmirage]

39. Rules of competition

If my team loses - refs rigged it.
If caucus win - caucuses ok
If caucus loss- system is beyond repair must be exploded
If primary win - the people finally woke up to how awesome my candidate is
If primary loss - process rigged, vote trump, explode America