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Zorro

(15,740 posts)
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 02:05 PM Jun 2013

Venezuela's Capriles says Maduro government will fall

Venezuelan opposition leader Henrique Capriles says President Nicolas Maduro's government will "cave in" under the pressure of growing economic troubles, in-fighting and a belief by many Venezuelans that it stole the April election.

Capriles is still disputing the election, which he lost to Maduro by a narrower-than-expected 1.5 percentage points. But if, as expected, the fraud claims get nowhere in Venezuela's courts, Capriles says other forces may sink the successor to the late socialist leader Hugo Chavez.

"I think this government, in the current conditions of illegitimacy added to a deep economic crisis it's showing no intention of addressing, is going to cave in," Capriles, the governor of Miranda state, told Reuters.

"What does that mean? Well, all the mechanisms are in the constitution: referendum, new election, resignation. But ... don't ask me for ways out that are not in the constitution. Our fight is a peaceful one," he added in an interview in a rural zone of the state on Friday.

http://news.yahoo.com/venezuelas-capriles-says-maduro-government-fall-150839634.html

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Venezuela's Capriles says Maduro government will fall (Original Post) Zorro Jun 2013 OP
Capriles is hoarding tp? RobertEarl Jun 2013 #1
Maybe he means the other Chavistas will do him in Socialistlemur Jun 2013 #2
Oh, man, the CIA game is on! Peace Patriot Jun 2013 #3
SO naaman fletcher Jun 2013 #4
This is my favorite CT in history. joshcryer Jun 2013 #7
Explain to me how Maduro lost a 10% to 20% lead (ALL polls) in one week. Peace Patriot Jun 2013 #8
What you say isn't possible naaman fletcher Jun 2013 #5
Oh dear. Looks like the shoe's on the other foot now. Marksman_91 Jun 2013 #6
 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
1. Capriles is hoarding tp?
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 02:30 PM
Jun 2013

Remember how the US has used economic hit men to cripple other SA countries?

And this person has declared war on the elected President? Whose side is he on?

Remember how Gore submitted to the SCOTUS? And never did hoard tp?

Socialistlemur

(770 posts)
2. Maybe he means the other Chavistas will do him in
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 03:18 PM
Jun 2013

I hear the president of the National Assembly is a military/fascist type and a deadly enemy. They are having a struggle of some sort. Has to do with corruption and money laundering.

Peace Patriot

(24,010 posts)
3. Oh, man, the CIA game is on!
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 05:16 PM
Jun 2013

I predicted this when Leon Panetta (Bush Sr. associate; member of Bush Sr.'s "Iraq Study Group&quot took over the CIA (and was welcomed there with open arms and champagne corks popping). Panetta's A LOT savvier than Bush Jr.-Cheney-Rumsfeld & co.

I also noted, in a recent New Yorker article, a statement by President Obama (albeit, re drone assassinations): "Give the CIA whatever it wants" (or some such words--don't have the article in front of me).

Context: The war between the Pentagon and the CIA that Rumsfeld-Cheney started resulted in the CIA not doing its "best" job at destroying the opposition to U.S./transglobal corporate/bankster/war profiteer rule wherever it may arise. The Bush Junta was blundering around in Latin America, colluding with outright mafia dons (Uribe in Colombia), demonizing leaders like Chavez (Venezuela) and Correa (Ecuador) as "terrorist lovers" with Rumsfeldian dirty (and obvious and even laughable) ops, trying to use elbow-breaking and kneecapping tactics on people who are not easily intimidated, trying to start a shooting war (between the U.S./Colombia and Ecuador/Venezuela), sending down dictates (for instance, that South American leaders "must isolate Chavez"--to which the president of Argentina replied, "But he's my brother!&quot , and on and on, almost Keystone Copsian, if it weren't for all the murdered labor leaders in Colombia and other heinous crimes funded (or thought up) by the Bush Junta.

Panetta's main brief, in my opinion, was to end the war between the Pentagon and the CIA, and get everybody back on "the same page." And that he did.

So now we have the old, pre-Bush Junta-gutted, CIA back in operation. You can read their "talking points" and, I would guess, their plan itself, almost verbatim, just by reading Capriles' quotes, above, as brought to you by Rotters. They should probably shut Capriles up. He is too transparent. But anyway, no rough-edged coup d'etat this time. They've got conditions ripe for a recall election (such as the one the stupid Bushwhacks couldn't win against Chavez back in 2004). The economy is the key (according to Capriles). They've apparently found the levers to "make it scream." And they're going to try to make this look 'democratic'--because they are dealing with a VERY different Latin America than the pre-Chavez government Latin America--a Latin America with balls, to put it crudely (especially since some of these new ballsy leaders are women).

Such irony! Chavez did not himself unleash the power of democracy in Latin America--the grass roots did that--but he and his government certainly demonstrated that democracy can work "of, by and for the people," and that inspiration spread far and wide, and now includes governments "of, by and for the people" in Brazil, in Argentina, in Bolivia, in Ecuador, in Uruguay, to some extent in Peru and Nicaragua, and soon to be true in Chile once again--as well as in Venezuela. These governments will not sit back and take another crude coup d'etat in Venezuela. It would mean a permanent and severe breach between north and south America. So the CIA has to be more careful, and IS being more careful, to lay the groundwork and give it a 'democratic' gloss.

I do suspect that the CIA has also found the way to hack Venezuela's (once thought to be impervious) electronic voting system. Chavez's successor, Nicolas Maduro, had a 10% to 20% lead in ALL POLLS a week before the special election--and won by only 1.5%. That still mystifies me. There is no reasonable explanation for such a precipitous loss of support in such a short time. And if the CIA did this, the question, "why didn't they then just (s)elect Capriles?", is an interesting one. It could be they were only partially successful in penetrating the system. It could be they thought it was too soon, and would risk massive rebellion and disorder, making it impossible for Capriles to govern (give the oil back to Exxon Mobil). Plots are sometimes not perfect--fail, half fail, result in unintended consequences, are too cautious or too bold, etc.--and Venezuela's election system would be a very difficult one to hack, and its political system, overall, is very resistant to U.S. interference).

One other possibility is that they don't like Capriles and are grooming some other leader. Capriles looks, acts and smells like "a tool." And that may be all he is, to the CIA--a "tool" to get from point A to point B.

Rotters--and all the other corporate news propagandists--never tire of quoting Capriles, so we ought to follow this lavish (and slavish) coverage of Capriles with sharp eyes, for the latest instructions from Langley to the fascist forces in Venezuela. It's like having a phone tap on them.*

-------------------

(Do you think the FBI was bugging the CIA? I do. How else did they catch the (post-Panetta) CIA Director with his pants down? That was hilarious! Panetta was good at putting some entities back "on the same page," but not everyone, I suspect. And I think I know what the reason might be. Panetta's protege, the new president of Colombia, Manual Santos, has come out for complete legalization of drugs. This is likely a Big Pharma/Big Ag/Big Chem plan to take over and monopolize (and GMO-ize?) the trillion+ dollar trade in herbal, recreational or addictive drugs, through legalization. But entities like the FBI and DEA may not agree with this. The "war on drugs" is their gravy train. But if illicit drugs have been the CIA's gravy train--which many well-informed people believe--then evading FBI/DEA, et al, "boy scouts" is high on their skill list, AND they've had time to position themselves for the Great Legalization via "free trade for the rich" in Colombia.

(It wouldn't surprise me to find out that THAT was one of the big issues between the CIA and Rumsfeld-Cheney. Who controls the drug trade? Which cartels are favored, which smashed? Who gets to go legit? And whether or not to go legit? This seems to be a rather big issue between Santos (CIA protege) and Uribe (Rumsfeld-Cheney protege). Uribe, as mafia boss of Colombia, of course wants it to remain illegal. That's all he knows: how to run a criminal organization, and how to use the levers of government to protect it. He doesn't know how to run a legit government with legit, legal, democratic-looking profiteering by the rich. (Some one hundred of Uribe's closest political associates, including family members, are under investigation, or already in jail, for ties to the death squads, for drug trafficking, for illegal domestic spying and other crimes.)

(Santos, on the other hand, has Panetta-like savvy. He sees the advantages of Colombia going legit, and is altogether a smoother chief executive. How is this relevant to this thread? Capriles just made a high-profile visit to Santos. I'll bet legalization was one of the things they talked about. For Capriles, it might mean being able to infiltrate "Black Eagle" operatives into Venezuela, in a up-and-up way, to control the chavistas. For Santos, it might be a way into Venezuela for Monsanto & brethren.)

(We've got to always understand--or try to understand--how Colombia's largely illicit drugs economy is simmering beneath the apparent news in the corporate press. It is truly an "elephant in the room"--a huge, weighty, overwhelming presence, breathing most of the air and eating all the food, that no one talks about except in the "boy scout" terms of the corrupt, murderous, failed U.S. "war on drugs" (largely without including the corruption, murderousness and failure of it). They might note the tail, and identify, say, a rat in the room, to distract us from the "elephant." They NEVER take on the "elephant.&quot

 

naaman fletcher

(7,362 posts)
4. SO
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 08:39 PM
Jun 2013

For YEARS you have been telling us about the Jimmy Carter approved open source code and the BEST voting system in the world.

Are you saying you were totally wrong, just because an election didn't turn out as well as you would have hoped?

Peace Patriot

(24,010 posts)
8. Explain to me how Maduro lost a 10% to 20% lead (ALL polls) in one week.
Tue Jun 4, 2013, 06:16 AM
Jun 2013

It's almost impossible.

So I started thinking about what CIA/DIA priorities might have been, over the last half decade or so, regarding Venezuela, which, indeed, has a virtually unhackable system. What a challenge, eh?, for superclever techies on the wrong payroll!

They've been unable to move Venezuelan voters, who re-elected Chavez again, just before he died, and furthermore gave the rightwing a huge drubbing in the gubernatorial elections, shortly before the special presidential election. No hope there. None of their endless propaganda, none of their USAID funding and "training" of the rightwing, none of the dirty tricks--nothing they tried worked!

I really don't know how they could have done it. But it would surprise me not even a little bit to find out that, a) they had such a project, and b) saw their opportunity, with the death of Chavez, and tried it out on Maduro.

It would have had to be very sophisticated to overcome the Venezuelan paper ballot verification. And Venezuelans are quite vigilant about the verification. They do a whopping 55% automatic audit! (And they've done far more than that, this time--they may have got up to 100%.) That is the stickler. But then, think of all the ferocious, concentrated effort to defeat Chavez, AND the ferocious, concentrated effort of our secret agencies and their corporate allies to control us, and to control the world, with high technology (along with old-fashioned dirty ops like they pulled on Julian Assange).

Anyway, I did say "IF"--IF the CIA did this. I don't have any information that they did, or any clue as to how they could. It is a rock solid system. It really is. It satisfies every criterion for "best election system in the world."

It's just that I don't understand the closeness of the election. I haven't heard any believable explanation for how that could have happened in one week's time.

I also think that the will, within the U.S. government, to destroy the Bolivarian Revolution, is off-the-charts obsessive. They would do ANYTHING for that end, including spending half a decade (since, oh, 2006--Chavez's first re-election, and the second failed coup plot) trying to find the way into Venezuelan's rock-solid election system.

Maduro isn't Chavez. He is not charismatic. But he did nothing during that week to lose 10% to 20% of the voters--voters who had just re-elected Chavez and thrown out most of the rightwing governors! It doesn't make sense. So one's mind casts about for some other explanation. And those who have been furiously plotting against Venezuela's government since at least the turn of the century strike me as pretty good candidates for such a plot.

 

naaman fletcher

(7,362 posts)
5. What you say isn't possible
Sun Jun 2, 2013, 09:35 PM
Jun 2013

While I suppose it is possible for the CIA to hack the voting machines, everyone would know it.

The voting machines are "OPEN SOURCE" and "everyone gets to see how the votes are being counted"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11085297#post15

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