Do any of the rest of you feel like this?

[Bonobo]

Speaking for myself, I am MUCH MORE open-minded and feminist issue oriented in my real life than I tend to portray myself/be portrayed as on DU.

When I see something posted, in GD for example, about issues of sexism (such as the current Seth McFarlane thing), I hesitate to enter and be vocal. I would normally, in real life, be critical of McFarlane's behavior but on DU, because of the way I feel I am viewed and because of the way I feel painted into a corner, I hesitate.

I almost feel like my image has been so hardened and I have been shoehorned into a certain category that if I WERE to make a anti-sexism statement, I would be jumped on and accused of being a hypocrite.

Does anyone else feel painted into a corner in this way? Does anyone else feel that their DU "identity" is not an accurate portrayal?

Does anyone else here feel that certain vocal posters on DU have made you feel pigeonholed into an identity that is not you and that you don't know how to get out because there is a tendency to make people into caricatures of what they are in order to provide "foils" for others?

Even writing this, I feel I can "hear" the sighs of certain people as they think how to attack me, or search my past for ammunition. I know who I am and am comfortable as is my extremely feminist daughter who thinks I am very open-minded, but I don't think my DU persona is accurate.

[Scuba]

1. No.

[In_The_Wind]

2. only one time ~ recently!

10:23 PM
Automated Message

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your alert

At Tue Feb 26, 2013, 09:45 PM you sent an alert on the following post:

Okay. I admit that I've never had a hooker (escort) so I'm not up on the rates.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1018&pid=317211

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

YOUR COMMENTS:

he is calling me a hooker.

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Tue Feb 26, 2013, 10:23 PM, and voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT ALONE.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Err, are 'escorts' some other job?!?
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: This whole subthread is questionable but this post has to go.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: He's not calling you a hooker. He's obviously misread or doesn't understand what you mean by "escort." But his nasty, inappropriate language still makes me want to hide this post.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: I couldn't see him calling anyone a hooker, sorry. But I thought the post was indeed imature.

Thank you.

~~~> Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Err, are 'escorts' some other job?!?

[Sekhmets Daughter]

3. Yikes!

adding insult to injury...first the post and then juror #3....

[In_The_Wind]

4. lucky for # 3 that I don't know who he is

[img][/img] will kick his ass. big time!

[Sekhmets Daughter]

5. Sometimes, no explanation is

better than the crap offered. Of course, #3 could have been a female...just saying...

[In_The_Wind]

6. oh and, in the wind has soooo many female friends

[Sekhmets Daughter]

7. Exactly!

[NYC_SKP]

9. Gorp!

It's the sound I make when I swallow my tongue in shock!

[In_The_Wind]

10. makes me sick

If the men's group wants me, perhaps ~ here, LBN and The Lounge will become my new home at DU. Love most men most of the time.
btw ~ don't get any on ya re: gorp. unfuckhim

[NYC_SKP]

20. Gorp.... Has left the building.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=301079&sub=trans

[In_The_Wind]

21. Indeed ~ with help from some very wonderful DUers.

By the way . . . I just about finished supper.

His last post is just as disgusting as the one to me.


~~~ snip ~~~


so. how was your day?

[NYC_SKP]

22. Only a matter of time...

I'm good, my mom looks better today (dad passed last Tuesday).

A good day, for me!

What was for dinner?

[In_The_Wind]

23. I had no idea. I'm so very sorry NYC_SKP !

Happy to hear that your mom is looking better.


Good for you too.



Now about dinner: fresh chicken pot pie from BJ's.
Had some banking to do. Stopped by City Hall to pick up paper work.
Shopped for stuff I can crockpot and freeze. My time for work is not far off. If I freeze meat sauces now . . . later . . . after driving 300 miles, All I'll need to do is defrost and heat. no work. great meals.

[MadrasT]

24. I am sorry for your loss

[NYC_SKP]

25. Thank you.

It was a long illness, no surprises.

Now resting in peace.

[Warren DeMontague]

32. Sorry to hear that, Skip.

I've been there. Not much to say, but, sorry.

[Warren DeMontague]

29. good grief.

I'm not sure what to add, but, good grief.

[In_The_Wind]

34. more good grief ~ A private message from Gorp to me:

Yesterday
Gorp

Re: Re: Re: Re: Some people really don't have a sense of humor. I know what an OTR Escort is.

That's appropriate. But seriously, it was nothing more than a joke. I like your posts and I like the threads we've participated in. I've re-read the exchange several times and I can see how you might have taken it as meaning you, but I was just playing off the word "escort" to make a bad joke. It was in no way directed at you personally, or even the OTR job in general. It was just silly childish humor. Nothing more.

> I did send a copy of your first PM and my reply to Skinner.
>
> I am waiting for his reply as to what he wants me to do now.
>
> perhaps ~ you should send Skinner a PM also ~ just my thoughts!
>
> > Well I certainly apologize, but trust me, that was NOT my intention - it was nothing more than a silly joke, a play on words - that's it. I had no intention of offending you, at all. Please accept my apology.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > But "escort" is also a well-known and very old term for an up-scale hooker (think "Pretty Woman" with Julia Roberts). There are alert stalkers out there with nothing better to do than hunt down anything that could possibly be construed as reason for an alert. I went back and read the entire thread and I think it is quite obvious that I wasn't referring to you, or even making fun of hookers for that matter.
> > > >
> > > > Tobin's a trucker. He knows damn well that every truck stop has hookers all over the place, "lizards" at least used to be the term. I had a CB running all the time in my car in high school (late 70's, early 80's) so the accusation that I don't know what I'm talking about isn't correct. The first girl I moved in with eventually ended up in that profession.
> > > >
> > > > I sent a PM because there's no sense in giving the alert stalkers more bait. I thought The Lounge was supposed to be a fun place! I mean seriously, how could you (not you in particular, but anyone) see the post that was alerted on as anything OTHER than a joke?
> > > >
> > > > Your thoughts?
> > > >
> > >
> > > my thoughts either you post this to me out front or I will!
> > >
> > >
> > > You Fucking Called ME A HOOKER!

imo: Gorp had a PPR wish from the start.

[Warren DeMontague]

35. yeah, still not cool.

good riddance, right?

[In_The_Wind]

36. Right.

Oh and ~ I'm very glad the post still stands to prove what cannot be said at DU!

[Warren DeMontague]

37. Personal attacks are never cool IMHO.

Ive been subject to a few myself, lately.

[In_The_Wind]

38. I can only take comfort in believing while Gorp was attacking me, another DUer was spared.

I've noticed that you've been dustin' it up here and there.

I piss people off all the time, just by the fact that I live and breathe.
I grew up pretty much without parental supervision from the age of 9.
I sorta like the way I raised myself. I never fit in with the in-crowd. So why bother.
A different drummer is calling my name.
Clearly I believe myself to be one of a kind. yea me.

[Upton]

8. Who cares?

It's a relatively small group, single digits, that employ those type of tactics. Says more about them than it does about you or anybody else.

[HappyMe]

12. I stay out of it.

To me, it really isn't worth the trouble. You know who you are, and where you stand in real life. In the end, that's all that really matters.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

13. Feels like a Meta thread to me

But anyhow, I'm more prone to play devil's advocate here than in the outside world. In the outside world, people would look at McFarlane's performance as just peppered with a lot of bad taste and dismiss it's importance after about noon on Monday, whereas here it's part of a grand conspiracy to leverage power against a group of people and must be discussed for days before we can all move on to the next tragedy.

[rrneck]

14. Most people figure me for a 'gungeoneer'.

Last edited Wed Feb 27, 2013, 08:58 PM - Edit history (1)

You know, a member of "Team NRA". Add to that any discussion of feminism and I become an "MRA" on steroids in the eyes of people who view me through their partisan beer goggles. I don't care one way or the other. My objectives in life are no more mainstream than my objectives in posting here, so I'm used to it.

There are a lot of people here who are more interested in finding comfort in their ideology than in trying to see how it will actually work. They think this place is more of a support group than a discussion board. A few are social dominators who just want to tell others what to do even if it's in a place like this, which is a little pathetic and sad. Their sycophants are even worse. Others are here for the attention. They are just trolls, but chickenshit trolls because it's really easy to get attention and support by telling people what they want to hear. A few are "right wing" trolls who troll by behaving like a caricature of a liberal. Each "role" isn't exclusive to each member. They are strategies people use to get what they want. We are all consumers, and some people violate the social contract by trying to take more than they give. It remains to be seen if the software can control the gluttony.

In the end this place is populated by people in about the same ratio of dysfunction as in real life. We're all just people in an artificial environment - sort of a hothouse of anonymous dialogue. It will be interesting to see what kind of species thrives in a hothouse like this.



Obama won the election, and when the revolution succeeds the purges begin to winnow out those who are not sufficiently loyal to the cause. That's what's happening here.

For my part if somebody posts something thought provoking, I respond. Those responses are becoming increasingly rare. Of course, maybe I'm just burning out on DU, but it's not in my nature to tell people what they want to hear to garner their approval. I got out of sales decades ago and I ain't going back. Hostile environments don't concern me. Barren environments are boring. Kick me, beat me, slander my name, just don't bore me.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

15. I agree with what you said except I don't think this is me:

Add to that any discussion of feminism and I become an "MRA" on steroids.

but the rest of that is so me it makes wonder if you are a long lost brother that I never met.

[rrneck]

19. I'm not an MRA either.

I just seem to become one because of the evil guns. I better edit that post or I'll hear about it forever. It's probably already been the subject of a half dozen emails. They all sort of go together in some people's eyes, as long as those eyes are looking through partisan beer goggles. Of course I'm not a feminist either depending on who you ask, so there's that.

You might not want to claim me for family although we probably tell the same dirty jokes.

[Major Nikon]

16. Here's the interesting thing

I see quite a few people, both men and women trying to devalue an opinion for no other reason than because it comes from a man. Not only is this blatant sexism, it also attempts to float the idea that some subjects are beyond the scope of reason.

It's really nothing more than a small minded idea that tries to label people so they can then feel free to shut off their brains and tune out any ideas that may diverge from their own. Then when you stop and consider that most, if not virtually all men here are on the same page as they are when it comes to legislative issues it gets a bit silly.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

17. Well, that's why the term "mansplain" is constantly given a pass by juries around here

Just yesterday, a man, making a perfectly reasonable non-angsty generating post, got flamed by someone who's only basic retort was to diminish him with that phrase. And the jury was cool with it.

[Major Nikon]

18. There's not much purpose in alerting unless you just want to prove the double standard exists

If they have to resort to that kind of nonsense, they probably didn't have much in the way of intelligence to offer anyway.

[Warren DeMontague]

30. right, if you don't say anything you have nothing to offer except snark and "harmful images"

if you do say something, you're "mansplaining".

I tried to go through that, a while back- that yes if we're really interested in dealing with nasty gender based slurs, what the fuck is 'mansplaining'?

But it got nowhere. Maybe if I didn't try making the case with a y chromosome.

[ElboRuum]

26. Not particularly... but then again...

...I find that most people are going to think whatever the hell it is they want of a person, even facing great evidence to the contrary, especially those you are describing. That opinion will be likely be wrong, and I can't be bothered by people's misapprehensions.

[Behind the Aegis]

27. Very much so.

Why deal with the hate, bullshit, lies, and headaches? There are some topics I will jump into, but it usually depends on who is already in the thread and definitely who started said thread. However, I am pretty sure the times I have jumped into those topics, most really understand where I am coming from and do not accept the parody version that others try to create. Sexism is not the only topic, though that is like that, especially here!

[Gore1FL]

28. I am not swayed by the opinion of people I neither like nor respect.

They can only "pigeon-hole" (how long until someone finds that phrase sexist?) you is if you let them.

Frankly, I just ignore those threads, anyways. There are certain subjects which are best to just leave alone. When the same topic begins to sweep through DU, an identical process happens each time. You have the instigators (which are usually the same tired crowd) posting something inciteful instead of insightful. This leads people, who actually agree on most things, to argue about irrelevant minutia. This, then, spirals into the flame war the instigator wanted in the first place.

[Warren DeMontague]

31. Part of the reason I picked this particular username, is because I recognize that to some extent

we become characters, puppets, caricatures of who and what we really are.

Plus I think the whole "puppet" thing is funny on DU; sometimes, especially in the old days before we were able to air such stuff in meta, at times I felt like I was the only one in a given thread who was not some sort of sockpuppet... Arguing with 8 tentacles of the same octopus. So, I thought the irony of taking a "puppet" name would be nice.

(Or, maybe I really am a puppet, and it's my idea of a subliminal joke... Hmmmm!)

I try to present myself genuinely online, but aside from people characterizing me and mischaracterizing me based upon what they imagine I say- as opposed to what I actually DO say (which happens alot)- yes, certainly I think I probably come across in a way that isn't necessarily close to who I actually am.

The tired "MRA" shit isn't even worth bothering with, I've addressed that enough times now that it's not even worth getting into... really the only logic behind it seems to be "MRAs fight with me on this and you are also fighting with me about this so you must be an MRA"

And of course, you run up against the stuff in other peoples' heads, too- for instance, if I post a picture (in the dread "hot celeb" thread) of an attractive woman in a bikini -to throw out a completely random example- for some here, it means I must be a lonely loser, or maybe a pimply adolescent who sweats and stammers when he talks to a "real girl" and then runs off to OK Cupid to complain about it. To others it means I must be a locker-room he man misogynist who would *never tolerate* similar "objectification" of "hot men" in the thread....

and both are ridiculous; given that I'm a happily married guy nearing middle age (that's as close as you're getting me to it, thanks), who appreciates the physical beauty of women and who is abso-fucking-lutely thrilled for my LGBT brothers and sisters when they appreciate the physical beauty of the folks they are attracted to. I don't think sexuality, in and of itself, is a contest or even a system of oppression, (it certainly shouldn't be, which is why the FREEDOM for consenting adults to be whoever they want to be and express themselves is so crucial!) but rather a wonderful facet of the transcendent kick-assedness of raw existence, of simply being and feeling and fucking and loving in this awesome, head-scratchingly mysterious universe of ours.

I'm really kind of an old-school hippie, with a hard-nosed rationalist skeptical streak, a small dash of mysticism and a liberal blending of peace and love man compassion mixed in with gen x irony and snark. That's kind of where I'm at. I don't think I'm a bad guy, and I've tried to explain where I'm coming from politically and elsewhere- but I suspect that sometimes it gets mashed around and certainly misinterpreted.

[Warren DeMontague]

33. Let me add this, directly on the whole Seth MacFarlane deal~

I can see how people would consider it sexist. On one level, the most basic level, of course it was sexist. It was supposed to be sexist, because it was him making fun of himself, or a caricature of himself, or a caricature of the adolescent boy-man he represents, being sexist or being only interested in "seeing the boobs" of all these actresses.

That was why it was portrayed that way. That was what was supposed to be funny about it, including the bit as an old-school dance number with the guys in tuxes and the fake reaction shots of the actresses rolling their eyes.

That said, I didn't think it was all that funny. Mildly funny, tops. (yes. intentional pun.)

The Oscars always walk a weird line when it comes to "entertainment", the short answer being, the show generally isn't all that fucking entertaining. I mean, they have this big time slot to fill, yet the main reason everyone is there is to see who wins the awards (mostly, the top 4 or 5 or 6) and at the end of the day it's Hollywood- the most cliquish, insular, self-referential community the World has ever seen, forced to put on a "show" for one of the biggest TV audiences of the year; so they have to make talking to their navels sound good to Mr. and Mrs. Downhome Indiana, and they can't freak out the bluehairs too much while simultaneously not causing the 15-25 prime advertising demographic to go to sleep.

And they just about NEVER hit the right note, entirely~ no one ever does the hosting right, and the 'entertainment' as often as not comes off as ham-handed, or worse.

Fortunately for the Oscars, by the time the thing is over the entire auditorium; and half the folks viewing at home- are drunk as shit, so they don't care.

[NRA_SUCKS]

39. Yes and it makes me wonder why I am still here

To the point im seriously considering giving up completely on DU and moving on.
I miss the old days where we were all less polarized, myself included.
I disliked republicans but i didn't have the frothing hatred that I seem to have acquired over the years.
But I suppose some of that is simply nostalgia for a simpler time when discussions about ACTUAL misogyny could take place, where the people on the fringes (now called rad-fems) were patted politely on the head, and shooed away from the adult conversations.

now it seems like the ONLY people allowed to talk about gender issues ARE the rad-fems, and all others are either MRA-ers (whats wrong with men having rights?... and yes I know what the MRA are and they disgust me) or an apologist for the patriarchy or some other bullshit thing.

when did this part of the left become the feminist equivalent to the tea party?

when can we have rational conversations about genders again?
I miss those days.
sure stupid things got said, but, the discussion still happened.

How come we can't have good conversations anymore? stupid things get said, but we move past them and continue the conversation...


I miss those days

[Warren DeMontague]

41. the old days? You signed up 3 months ago, right?

I was around DU in the old days, and believe me, it wasn't any better.

People were having the exact same fights; in many cases, the exact same people, 10 years or more ago.

[MrSlayer]

40. No, because I couldn't care less about what people think of me.

On an anonymous message board. I say what I think most of the time, the rest of the time I just erase what I wanted to say to avoid being kicked off. I think people on here are way too sensitive and love to make mountains out of molehills. The whole boobs thing on the Oscars is a prime example of people just looking for an excuse to be outraged over absolutely nothing.

All I know is that I'd hate to live in a world where everything is watered down and homogenized to the point where you can't even make jokes anymore.

If anyone remembers the society portrayed in the so bad it's good Stallone movie "Demolition Man" you know what I mean. I feel like I'm Dennis Leary's character around here a lot of the time.

http://m.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

42. Demolition Man is such a fucking good movie

It was on again the other night, and I'm thinking I need to own it now.