I think a gesture toward PS teachers and their unions would go a long way right about now.

[Smarmie Doofus]

The president and his Sec of Ed ( elite private school products w. kiddies tucked away in ... you got it... elite private schools) have, for the last four years, been looking down their noses at inner-city urban PS schools; and at the folks who've made a career out of working with these PS kids ... and their families... none of whom either Obama or Duncan would ever, under ANY circumstances, go *near*.

Here's the thing:

1. We/you ( the Obama campaign, the DEM Party) need $$ and volunteers. People who will donate AND then cross state lines to canvass and knock on doors in battleground states. ( I personally can get to PA, NH, and OH).

2. My email inbox overfloweth w. entreaties to do any and all of the above.

3. I will not, (I *CANNOT*), move if you persist in promoting the GATES/RHEE/KOCH/BLOOMBERG multi-billionaire agenda for de-unionizing, amateurizing and trivializing my profession.

"Ze choice", it seems to me, is yours. What say you?

"Which side are you on? " I'm not being campy or rhetorical. There are , in fact, two distinct "sides".

Any other teachers looking at it this way?

( I posted a version of this to GD this am and... like everything else I post about education outside of this forum, it sank w. nary a ripple. Perhaps there's more clearheadedness re. this issue in the pm hours.

[1StrongBlackMan]

1. I suspect it sank because ...

1) This:

The president and his Sec of Ed ( elite private school products w. kiddies tucked away in ... you got it... elite private schools)

Where should the children of the POTUS (and even those of a cabinet member) go?

2) Or maybe this:

have, for the last four years, been looking down their noses at inner-city urban PS schools; and at the folks who've made a career out of working with these PS kids.

Suffice it to say ...No, they haven't.

3) Or, maybe this:

none of whom either Obama or Duncan would ever, under ANY circumstances, go *near*.

No comment necessary.

4) But most likely:

3. I will not, (I *CANNOT*), move if you persist in promoting the GATES/RHEE/KOCH/BLOOMBERG multi-billionaire agenda for de-unionizing, amateurizing and trivializing my profession.

Do you expect it to get any better under a romney administration?

Just saying ...

[wandy]

2. Well said.

[Smarmie Doofus]

4. I'd rather not do the "Romney would be worse" argument.

>>>Do you expect it to get any better under a romney administration?

Just saying ...>>>

It's tedious, obvious, inarguable and infinitely counter-able w. " but we could take back the party in 4 years w. a pro-union, pro-teacher, pro ps traditional DEM."

Yadayadayada. "The lesser of two evils" dead end....on stilts. ( Mixed metaphor but you get the drift.)

But are you saying that you ( the party, Obama, the campaign) don't *need* us?

Cause' I'm thinking ya *do*.

[HiPointDem]

9. no, romney praised obama's education policy. mainly because it's the same as romney's.

[Doctor_J]

3. So would a strong commitment to a national hc program

and a vow to end voter purges. and a vow to prosecute banksters. and a promise to handy Cheney over to the Iraqis.

But any of those would require a much different person than the one who currently resides in the WH

[Reader Rabbit]

5. I'd like a little more than a gesture.

Firing Arne Duncan would be a start, and we can go from there.

[Smarmie Doofus]

6. That would be a gesture.

And he doesn't have to "fire" him. Mr. Duncan could gracefully resign so he could "pursue other interests"... whatever they might be. ( Maybe he could try something he's never done before. Like *teach*. Tee-hee.)

Short of that... Obama could acknowledge the , let's say, "excesses" of corporate school "reform".

Examples abound: frivolous school closings, $$$ mismanagement of all varieties, union-busting, teacher harassment, privatization, economic and racial stratification promoted and accelerated by privatization, testing-abuse, data manipulation ( including but not limited to cheating) and ....most heinous of all.... the creation of a new, gigantic, impenetrable, patronage-heavy, school "reform" bureaucracy.

So far he HAS intimated that there could be such a thing as excessive standardized testing.

OK. That's a start. (Sort of. I wonder what it's like to live in his world. I really do) But it's not enough to send me to Pennsylvania for a week.

[HiPointDem]

8. what difference would duncan resigning make if the policy didn't change? and it's not going to.

that's for sure.

[Smarmie Doofus]

10. I think Obama is educable on this issue.

I don't see him as having a set of firm convictions on public education. Or even a coherent philosophy.

I really don't think he's given it much thought. He hasn't had to; he's never been in an American PS as a student and his kids have never been in an American ps.

His public pronouncements are merely regurgitations of modern corporate school "reform" cliches.

Problem is... ( one of the problems)... he's surrounded by folks like himself: children of the upper-middle class and political elite who are as (experientially) clueless as he is.

So he's a blank slate.A tabula rasa. So he probably DOES think that Duncan is some kind of "expert". (After all.... he had that political appt. Chicago machine job as CEO of the school system there.)

Duncan resigning would make a difference if he were replaced w. someone who had some idea of how complex the problems of urban public education really are and had the training and background to do something REAL about them.

I'd regard that as at least a "gesture". I WANT to support Obama. *WANT* to. But he's making it impossible for me to do so. Every day I have to go to work and deal with this:

>>frivolous school closings, $$$ mismanagement of all varieties, union-busting, teacher harassment, privatization, economic and racial stratification promoted and accelerated by privatization, testing-abuse, data manipulation ( including but not limited to cheating) and ....most heinous of all.... the creation of a new, gigantic, impenetrable, patronage-heavy, school "reform" bureaucracy.>>

I'm not sending any money to *anyone* to support ANY of this crap. Even if I wanted to I couldn't do it.

[HiPointDem]

11. i don't share your optimism. he chose duncan for a reason, and he knew his history quite well.

whatever obama thinks privately about what good education is has nothing to do with his actions as president.

[rateyes]

7. From this PS teacher, I must say that your idea of a good start

is a good idea of a good start.

Arne has never spent one day on the front lines...and, he's a pos for an Education Sec'y.

[RobertAustin]

14. I agree whole-heartedly, and I can SHOW you something that is much more than a gesture.

I'm fed up with the nationwide war against teachers and our unions. On July 10, 2012, after trying hard to stop the attacks against our unions and contracts at the state level, I got help and advice from others, wrote a petition, and posted it on-line: "The C.A.P. Education Reform Proposal: Save America's Schools -- By Cutting Administrators' Pay, with Federal Legislation." It is easy to find with Google. Five days later, it has 262 signatures from all across America, and a petition target of 2,500 signatures -- but I can raise that target, at any time, to a higher number.

It's time for all unions to stand together. It's time to fight back. The gloves are off. I'm using my real name for a reason -- I want the bullies who try to intimidate teachers into submission to know that I do NOT fear them, and will NOT back down.

I am asking you -- meaning everyone who sees this -- to sign this petition. However, it doesn't end there. I am asking you to join this nationwide, grassroots effort, by spreading the petition link to everyone you know. Republicans love to talk about cutting wasteful spending, so they should support the idea of cutting the salaries of superintendents who collect (not "earn&quot more pay than anyone in the U.S. Senate, or the President's Cabinet, or anyone on the U.S. Supreme Court, except Chief Justice John Roberts. This describes the situation in my own school district, but it is even worse elsewhere. There is at least one superintendent in New York state who collects more money per year that is earned by President Obama, and I will soon edit the petition to include that fact. NY Gov. Mario Cuomo is pushing for a state law to stop this outrage in his state. Like many Democrats, he supports education and teachers. This petition is bipartisan, for a reason. It should appeal to over 99% of the population.

The only problem with Gov. Cuomo's effort is that it can only address this problem in one state. The C.A.P. Proposal is FEDERAL. We're petitioning both houses of Congress, and the White House. Please help us help ALL teachers, nationwide, so that we may teach our students effectively, without administrative interference. The petition explains itself. Here is the link: http://www.change.org/petitions/the-c-a-p-education-reform-proposal-save-america-s-schools-by-cutting-administrators-pay-with-federal-legislation

Please join us today, and help us put a stop to this, once and for all!

[NYC_SKP]

12. Sounds like a threat or an ultimatum.

So, as much as I can agree with *some* of your position, I am not looking at it this way.

My way would be more like this:

Damn, Mr. Obama, Sir, I'm going to help you all I can but you have GOT to do something about Arne Duncan and you MUST pull more real world teachers in real world schools into this conversation.

[Smarmie Doofus]

13. Let's not call it *that*.

Ricky 00:26:00 You wouldn't dare.
Lucy 00:26:03 Oh, wouldn't i?
Ricky 00:26:05 But that's blackmail.
Lucy 00:26:06 Come now, let's not call it that.
Ricky 00:26:08 That's what its.
Lucy 00:26:09 I know, but let's not call it that.

In fact, it is what it is. If he gives me no reason to get on board... I may just as well stay on the dock. I'm telling you: I am physically unable to watch Obama-style school "reform" unfold day after day and then go home and plan out of state weekends in October so that I can undergo 4 more years of this insanity. It's not going to happen.

Sounds like you may be a year or two away from the moment when the shit hits the fan. I'm in a "pilot program". They are "reforming" us as we speak. Trust me... as bad as you think it is.... it's MUCH WORSE.