Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Rhiannon12866

(205,319 posts)
Sat Jun 19, 2021, 12:51 AM Jun 2021

Are Electric Cars Truly Better for the Environment?

Looking at the whole life cycle of EVs, the verdict is clear.

In This Article
1. Life-Cycle Analysis
2. Raw Materials and Manufacturing
3. Driving
4. Fueling
5. End of Life

Are electric vehicles truly better than gas cars for the environment? Not in all facets or in all regions of the world, but overall, unquestionably, yes—and as time goes on, only more so.

While much clickbait has been written questioning the environmental superiority of EVs, the cumulative science confirms that in almost every part of the world, driving an EV produces fewer greenhouse gas emissions and other pollutants than a gas-powered car. The internal combustion engine is a mature technology that has seen only incremental changes for the past half-century. By contrast, electric vehicles are still an emerging technology witnessing continual improvements in efficiency and sustainability, while dramatic changes in how the world produces electricity will only make electric vehicles cleaner.

"We still have a long way to go, and we don't have the luxury of waiting," said David Reichmuth of the Union of Concern Scientists in a recent interview with Treehugger.1

The transportation sector generates 24% around the world and 29% of total greenhouse gases (GHG) emissions in the United States—the largest single contributor in the U.S.2 According to the EPA, the typical passenger vehicle emits about 4.6 metric tons of carbon dioxide per year at an average of 404 grams per mile.3 Beyond carbon emissions, road traffic from gas-powered vehicles generates fine particulate matter, volatile organic compounds, carbon monoxide, nitrogen oxides, and sulfur oxides, the adverse health effects of which—from asthma and heart disease to cancer and pregnancy disorders—have been well demonstrated and disproportionately impact low-income communities and communities of color.4 EVs can't solve all those problems, but they can make our world a more livable place.

Much more: https://www.treehugger.com/are-electric-cars-truly-better-for-the-environment-5188672



Fastened charging stations use solar-fueled batteries to charge EVs. Dafinchi/Getty Images


25 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Are Electric Cars Truly Better for the Environment? (Original Post) Rhiannon12866 Jun 2021 OP
I've always wondered about that question. Thanks for sharing! alwaysinasnit Jun 2021 #1
Thanks! And me, too! Rhiannon12866 Jun 2021 #2
We do seem to have quite a bit of EVs around here along with charging stations so I'm guessing that alwaysinasnit Jun 2021 #4
I want the world to be 100 percent sure before I buy and that it's great for the environment jimfields33 Jun 2021 #11
Thanks. ❤ nt littlemissmartypants Jun 2021 #3
I see a lot of pushing for EVs here on DU. PoindexterOglethorpe Jun 2021 #5
That's the reason I didn't invest in one when I needed a car, either Rhiannon12866 Jun 2021 #6
Ahh, a reliable dealership. PoindexterOglethorpe Jun 2021 #7
Well, I got my Pontiac there in 2003 and I really appreciate the service department Rhiannon12866 Jun 2021 #10
EV's undercut the current Dealer business model Finishline42 Jun 2021 #17
Battery swapping might be better. Buckeye_Democrat Jun 2021 #8
Honestly,when I'm on a long drive, PoindexterOglethorpe Jun 2021 #9
We love our plug in hybrid. Pobeka Jun 2021 #12
26 miles on a charge? PoindexterOglethorpe Jun 2021 #13
Yes 26 miles, not 260 miles. Pobeka Jun 2021 #14
Recharge time depends on the current available. Finishline42 Jun 2021 #16
But I don't want to take the time to drink a cup of coffee PoindexterOglethorpe Jun 2021 #18
Normally I would suggest that when you go on long trips Finishline42 Jun 2021 #20
Why would I want to drive an unfamiliar car on a long trip? PoindexterOglethorpe Jun 2021 #22
One oil change in 3 years? Finishline42 Jun 2021 #24
I got it done at the dealership, so I have no idea what kind of oil they use. PoindexterOglethorpe Jun 2021 #25
Have you ever looked at the Chevy Volt? Finishline42 Jun 2021 #21
What exactly is a reasonable price? PoindexterOglethorpe Jun 2021 #23
put solar panels on vehicle roofs, hoods, trunk surface. might be ugly but so what nt msongs Jun 2021 #15
I have a VW Jetta once Finishline42 Jun 2021 #19

Rhiannon12866

(205,319 posts)
2. Thanks! And me, too!
Sat Jun 19, 2021, 01:17 AM
Jun 2021

I always thought my next car would be an EV, but they're still awfully expensive. However, as this article points out, their time has definitely come! And there are a couple of charging stations not far from me, not something I'd necessarily expect here in mostly rural upstate New York. I learned a lot from this article, too, so I wanted to share it.

alwaysinasnit

(5,066 posts)
4. We do seem to have quite a bit of EVs around here along with charging stations so I'm guessing that
Sat Jun 19, 2021, 01:38 AM
Jun 2021

this trend is here to stay. We also have programs to incentivize EVs, including discounts with certain EV auto dealerships. I, personally, have been considering a Nissan Leaf, mostly because I would be using it for running errands so I don't have to worry about driving range. California also has a rebate program and provides discounts when using EVs on toll roads. All in all, I am pretty happy living here.

jimfields33

(15,789 posts)
11. I want the world to be 100 percent sure before I buy and that it's great for the environment
Sat Jun 19, 2021, 06:11 AM
Jun 2021

I still remember when they said plastic bags at the grocery stores were better then paper. We all thought so and changed. The campaign’s for plastic bags were obviously very good. We all made the change. I don’t want to hear 30 years from now that oops, go back to regular cars or even something else.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,853 posts)
5. I see a lot of pushing for EVs here on DU.
Sat Jun 19, 2021, 03:01 AM
Jun 2021

I remain skeptical, for lots of reasons. One is the initial cost. I am not about to pay the absurd cost of current EVs. Keep in mind that I pay less than half of the current new car cost when I do buy a car. Another is the recharge time. Hours? Really? When recharging an electric car takes the time I currently take to put gas in my car, then we can talk. Especially as I go on long driving trips several times a year. Right now, when I drive from Santa Fe, NM to Overland Park, KS, I could do it in one long day, but I prefer to break the trip and overnight about three quarters of the way. With a lengthy recharge time, that same trip would take at least three days. No, thank you.

I'm old enough, at 72, that I probably won't live long enough to be forced into an EV. Although, twenty or so years from now they and the recharge thing will no doubt be vastly different.

Rhiannon12866

(205,319 posts)
6. That's the reason I didn't invest in one when I needed a car, either
Sat Jun 19, 2021, 03:09 AM
Jun 2021

I remember reading a few years back that the price was expected to go down within four years, but it didn't happen. Plus, I have a reliable GM dealership that I've dealt with since 2003 who are always there for inspections, oil changes, repairs, any services I need and they have yet to offer any EV cars that would fit the bill - and I need guidance. I don't know if they'll become more prevalent in my neck-of-the-woods, but until then I've stuck to what I know. *sigh*

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,853 posts)
7. Ahh, a reliable dealership.
Sat Jun 19, 2021, 03:20 AM
Jun 2021

That matters. I don't happen to do GM cars, and trust me, I'm not denigrating them, just saying my personal preferred cars are different. Sort of like if your favorite color is blue and mine is green.

I have my own favorite and preferred car company. And I honestly think sticking with the dealership, whatever you prefer, is a good choice. I know that over time electric cars will become more common. If I live long enough, that may well be my next car. But at 72, having purchased my most recent car only two years ago, I might not buy another car. I do keep on thinking of assisted living, and if that happens I will definitely give up my car. No matter what, I will at some point stop driving.

Were I forty-five or so, I'd have a very different mind set. I'd be thinking very seriously about an EV. I'd probably be thinking about a hybrid for my next car.

How old any of us is does make a difference.

Rhiannon12866

(205,319 posts)
10. Well, I got my Pontiac there in 2003 and I really appreciate the service department
Sat Jun 19, 2021, 04:55 AM
Jun 2021

It broke my heart to have to replace it a couple of years ago and, of course, I couldn't get another Pontiac. My mother also swore by Pontiacs. But I decided to get my next car there and I've been happy with my Chevy Malibu, it hasn't let me down yet. *knock on wood* They mainly deal with Buicks and Cadillacs now, but the car I got is the Chevy equivalent of my Pontiac Grand Am, same size, so that's worked for me. And I always deal with the same woman in service, told me to always ask for her though I think she mainly deals with Cadillacs now. They've gone above and beyond for me, and they know I like to keep my cars, so there's that.

Finishline42

(1,091 posts)
17. EV's undercut the current Dealer business model
Sun Jun 20, 2021, 10:55 AM
Jun 2021

A big part of what keeps the doors open at a dealer is service, from oil changes to the interval checkups at 15k, 30k, 45k, etc. EV's don't require them and there's a lot less to go wrong.

They also use your visit as an opportunity to sell you on a new (or newer) vehicle.

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,853 posts)
8. Battery swapping might be better.
Sat Jun 19, 2021, 03:23 AM
Jun 2021

I had high hopes when PBS was showing that electric vehicle concept demonstrated within Denmark years ago, with the depleted batteries being recharged by wind power. Unfortunately, that electric car company failed financially. It might take the resources of an entire government to get past the initial cost struggles of such technologies.

I couldn't find the PBS episode that I saw over a decade ago, but here's a different source to see the battery swapping process:

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,853 posts)
9. Honestly,when I'm on a long drive,
Sat Jun 19, 2021, 03:35 AM
Jun 2021

I want to be able to refuel/recharge my car in ten minutes or less.

In non pandemic times I frequently drive from Santa Fe to Overland Park, KS, or from Santa Fe to Tucson, or from Santa Fe to Colorado Springs or to Denver. I do not want to spend hours recharging my car. I don't. I'm sure that thirty or so years from now the recharging time will be very close to the current time needed to put gas into a car. But I'm 72 years old, and I will not be driving 30 years from now. I am happy for the people in that future. I really am. But now, I'm thinking about myself. I know, selfish.

Pobeka

(4,999 posts)
12. We love our plug in hybrid.
Sat Jun 19, 2021, 08:51 AM
Jun 2021

We can go 26 miles on a charge. That's probably 90% of our use per day. So 9 out of 10 days we are fully electric.

Plug it in at night, it's ready to go in about 5-6 hours of a charge from a normal outlet.

After that runs out, it's a normal hybrid, gets about 55 MPG (on road trips under 60 MPH) and a 11.4 gallon tank.

I haven't done the numbers yet on a recent 1000 mile road trip where we were at highway speeds of 70MPH and going thru mountain passes but I think it's going to be closer to 44 MPG. There were a lot of head winds too.
(On Edit: Just ran the numbers, we drove through 6 mountain passes, 1050 total miles over 4 days and averaged 44.5 MPG)

And the purchase price is competitive with normal hybrids.

Oh, and the fuel cost of driving electric is 1/7th the price of driving hybrid for our local prices this spring of electriciy and gas.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,853 posts)
13. 26 miles on a charge?
Sat Jun 19, 2021, 10:49 AM
Jun 2021

I think my job, back when I was working, was 13 miles in each direction.

Or do you mean 260 miles on a charge?

Pobeka

(4,999 posts)
14. Yes 26 miles, not 260 miles.
Sat Jun 19, 2021, 12:22 PM
Jun 2021

That is the strategy of the plug in vehicles -- relatively small batteries -- almost all your miles are 100% electric because we tend to not travel far most days.

But when you need the gas engine mode, it's there to take you far without worries about finding a charging station or the time it takes to recharge. And you get the benefit of the battery for a true hybrid MPG efficiency.

Some plugin/hybrids get 30 miles or slightly more. There is a big tax rebate if you can get 30 miles or more.

Finishline42

(1,091 posts)
16. Recharge time depends on the current available.
Sun Jun 20, 2021, 10:50 AM
Jun 2021

Tesla superchargers will take a battery from 30% to 80% in the time it takes to drink a cup of coffee.

If I had a Tesla I would be putting in their wall connector. You need to put it on a 60 amp circuit.

From their website ->>> Up to 44 miles (77 km) of range per hour of charge

That's at 240 volts.

Which means that just like our cell phones, plug in at night and ready in the morning.

Their software will plot the course to the next supercharger along your trip.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,853 posts)
18. But I don't want to take the time to drink a cup of coffee
Sun Jun 20, 2021, 10:59 AM
Jun 2021

while charging my car. I want to fuel up in less than five minutes and get back on the road.

Apparently people who own electric cars simply never go on a long trip.

Heck, it's annoying enough that my current car, a Honda Fit, has a slightly smaller gas tank than the previous car, a Honda Civic, had. I've had to re-do my gas stops when I make my various long drives. Not by a lot, but much of it, especially all of New Mexico, is very lightly populated and there can easily be 60 miles between gas stations.

Finishline42

(1,091 posts)
20. Normally I would suggest that when you go on long trips
Sun Jun 20, 2021, 11:08 AM
Jun 2021

That you just rent something. Don't put a bunch of miles on your personal car. But right now that is not the way to go and probably won't be for at least a year or more.

In your case it would be an inconvenience for your long trips, but what about the rest of the year when you don't have to go to a gas station? How many hours/days would that save you per year? No oil changes?

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,853 posts)
22. Why would I want to drive an unfamiliar car on a long trip?
Sun Jun 20, 2021, 01:14 PM
Jun 2021

Plus, I drive a stick shift, find automatics to be unreliable and unsafe. Plus, I don't really worry about putting the miles on my personal car.

For me the overall convenience and reliability of my car is extremely high. Yeah, for a year and a half I've been only going to the gas station about once a month, which is nice. In the three years I've had this car I think I've needed one oil change. Again, modern cars, certainly Hondas, are extremely reliable and reasonably low maintenance. Overall, I'm spending less on gas and oil changes than the initial cost of an EV, which starts at more than double what I've ever paid for a car.

Maybe someone who drives a big honking SUV that gets 15 miles to the gallon, needs oil changes every 3,000 miles, is better off with a similarly priced EV. I'm constantly astonished at how much people will pay for a vehicle of any kind. I think having been relatively poor at various times in my life, and having never been swayed by car ads and the supposed mystique around cars, is extremely helpful. I just want something with four wheels that gets me from place to place.

Which reminds me. I'm going to head out in a bit to run some errands, and I do need to get gas.

Finishline42

(1,091 posts)
24. One oil change in 3 years?
Sun Jun 20, 2021, 09:49 PM
Jun 2021

I hope you use synthetic oil. Normal oil is organic and will break down over time, especially with sporadic use (that's why they recommend an oil change based on mileage and/or time). Engine doesn't get up to temp, moisture accumulation, etc - not good for an engine.

You may never see a time when an EV suits your needs, but a lot of people will.

Just like so many technologies, the more we use it, the more it improves. Battery technology is the key factor in EV's. I expect we will see some major improvements in the next 5 to 10 years.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,853 posts)
25. I got it done at the dealership, so I have no idea what kind of oil they use.
Sun Jun 20, 2021, 10:16 PM
Jun 2021

Modern cars just don't need constant oil changes, the way the used to. My car tells me when I need an oil change, and right now the little indicator says I'm still at 60%. Again, like almost everyone, I'm driving far less than I used to. But even in the year I had the car before the pandemic, the oil just wasn't needing to be changed.

Finishline42

(1,091 posts)
21. Have you ever looked at the Chevy Volt?
Sun Jun 20, 2021, 11:23 AM
Jun 2021

A friend has one he bought used at a reasonable price.

It plugs in to charge the battery and when he doesn't go on long trips it seldom uses the gas engine to charge the battery. But when he does go on a long trip, it gets something like 40 mpg.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,853 posts)
23. What exactly is a reasonable price?
Sun Jun 20, 2021, 01:15 PM
Jun 2021

The cost of operating my Honda Fit is astonishingly low. And I get 40mpg on a long trip. Somewhat less driving around town.

Finishline42

(1,091 posts)
19. I have a VW Jetta once
Sun Jun 20, 2021, 11:02 AM
Jun 2021

That had a small - approx 10" x 10" - solar charger that plugged into the lighter. It was used to keep the battery charged when you would leave the car parked a long time.

Toyota sold an option for the Prius for roof mounted PV that would keep the AC running on hot days.

What is the Solar Panel Roof feature?
The Toyota Prius Solar Panel Roof feature is an impressive feature in an already class-leading hybrid vehicle. Solar panels located on the roof of your new Toyota Prius absorb the sun’s rays and use that absorbed solar energy to power the vehicle’s ventilation system. So, while your Prius is parked in the sun it is actually storing energy and powering the ventilation system and fan, maintaining a cooler temperature on the interior of your vehicle. With the Solar Panel Roof feature you will never have to get into a hot, steamy car again.

How do you activate the Solar Panel Roof feature?
There are two primary ways to activate the Solar Panel Roof feature and keep your Prius cool in the dog days of summer. First, you can enable the solar-powered ventilation system before exiting your vehicle with a button located on the interior dashboard of the 2015 Toyota Prius. The second method, is even more impressive, because the Solar Roof Panel feature provides Remote Air Conditioning. Simply push the air conditioning button on your key fob and use stored solar power to fuel the electronic air conditioning system before you head out to your car.

Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Environment & Energy»Are Electric Cars Truly B...