The Tesla Model S: The finest coal-powered car money can buy

[nationalize the fed]

Summary: Web cartoonist Matthew Inman loves his Tesla. But like many proud EV owners and proponents, does he even realize his "Magical Space Car" runs on fossil fuels?

Jason Perlow for Tech Broiler May 15, 2014

"...However, what I think has been lost in all this positivism and blind futurism about EVs and Tesla is how unrealistic electric cars still are for the average family.

Not only that, but they do not fundamentally solve the problems of moving to more sustainable energy sources; nor are they particularly "greener" or less fossil-powered than their gasoline, diesel, or even hybrid cousins...


Projected electricity generation by fuel, 1990-2040 (in trillions of kilowatt-hours). Source: United States Energy Information Administration, May 2014

...Say what, you ask? I'm no stranger to EVs. I've written about and driven Chevy's Volt, and I've also written about the current flaws in EV technology and why your average family isn't seeking to replace their gasoline and hybrid cars with Chevy Volts, Nissan Leafs, or the even a $70,000 Tesla Model S anytime soon...

...But we need to stop dreaming about Magical Space Cars and spend more time actually working on getting ourselves out of this economic and environmental quagmire that is fossil fuels... ---more-
http://www.zdnet.com/tesla-model-s-the-finest-coal-powered-car-money-can-buy-7000029509/

Jason Perlow
Professional biography
Jason Perlow, Sr. Technology Editor at ZDNet is a technologist with over two decades of experience with integrating large heterogeneous multi-vendor computing environments in Fortune 500 companies.

Jason is currently a Partner Technology Strategist with Microsoft Corp. A long-time computer enthusiast starting the age of 13 with his first Apple II personal computer, he began his freelance writing career starting at ZD Sm@rt Reseller in 1996 and has since authored numerous guest columns for ZDNet Enterprise and Ziff-Davis Internet.

[FBaggins]

1. Nope

does he even realize his "Magical Space Car" runs on fossil fuels?

Inman reportedly lives in Seattle. Less than 1% of Seattle's electricity comes from coal and even less comes from natural gas.

His Tesla is thus predominantly run on hydro with a bit of nuclear and wind mixed in.

[nationalize the fed]

3. Maybe the author was trying to make a broader point

what percentage of tesla's are run on coal, do you think.

[FBaggins]

8. Of course... and he fails

The Tesla would still be cleaner than IC engines even if it was "running on coal". It's just a happy coincidence that his chosen example is off-base.

The author has some good points (specifically shifting to nuclear generation)... but he's using the Tesla as the attention grab - and missed.

[nationalize the fed]

16. Nothing is cleaner than hydrogen produced from renewable sources. See below.

Tesla will adopt fuel cells or be obsolete. It's that simple.

And they wouldn't even be here today if they hadn't hoaxed the tax credit scheme in CA
http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/when-will-battery-swap-be-available

[madokie]

5. In my way of thinking

a gasoline powered auto is 100% fossil powered, an EV is whatever the mix is producing the electricity at the plug that its recharged at. In other words any is better than none. With none being the gas/diesel powered vehicle.

[FBaggins]

7. Yep... and it's more than that

One great big coal plant is likely still cleaner than all those mini IC engines burning gasoline.

A case where small/distributed is not to be preferred.

The author is also misunderstanding the difference between transportation fuels and energy sources. Transportation electrification has advantages beyond replacing fossil burning - and if Kris ever comes back to E/E he can add in the advantages of V2G and/or home storage benefits.

[Finishline42]

9. Noticed that Kris was gone

Noticed that Kris was gone, what happened?

Counted on his fact based reasoned responses to the denier spin machine.

It's more about efficiency and electric is orders of magnitude more so - even with coal fired plants.

Try adding up the entire path to get gas into our cars. From pumping crude to transporting it to the refinery. Where does a refinery get the electricity they use for their energy intensive operations? Then of course getting the refined gas to the pump. Lots of inefficient machines and equipment in that path.

Then, how many EV owners will also invest in Solar PV for their house?

[FBaggins]

11. Sorry... I don't know

I was gone myself for a bit over a month (big family vacation years in the planning) and didn't notice anything "happening".

I've seen a post or two elsewhere on DU in the last couple weeks... so he isn't off the site. Presumably he's just busy with something else. Online entertainment must necessarily take a back seat to the real world.

[Finishline42]

12. Thanks

I remember that Kris and Pam use to go back and forth - she doesn't seem to be around either.

re: 'Online entertainment must necessarily take a back seat to the real world.' No doubt...

[Turbineguy]

2. My calculations put running the Tesla

at about $1 per gallon gasoline equivalence. That means even if you are sourcing all your electricity from coal, it's still better.

[nationalize the fed]

4. sourcing electricity from coal

is obsolete.

The fuel cell is here and the only exhaust is water.



Take a ride in a hydrogen electric

Why would you store energy in a heavy battery that will one day need to be replaced when you could generate your own power, have less weight and ~3 minute fill up time?

The batteries in a Tesla Model S 85kW weigh over 1300 pounds. That's like driving around four 300 pound people + 100 lbs every where you go.

[OnlinePoker]

6. Where does the hydrogen come from?

It's very energy intensive to crack hydrogen from water and compress it into a useable fuel.

on edit: It says in the clip from Natural Gas production.

[Finishline42]

10. Hydrogen - from Natural Gas -

Hydrogen - from Natural Gas - just another way for the energy companies to keep the consumer at their mercy...

[nationalize the fed]

14. That's what many Americans think

but fortunately not the rest of the world

Hydrogen can be made from sewage- that will be fueling the new Hyundai Hydrogen car
http://www.fastcoexist.com/3027144/this-new-hyundai-car-runs-on-the-poop-of-california-residents-and-the-fuel-is-free

Hydrogen can be made from electrolysis powered by solar and wind and after the equipment is paid for the hydrogen is free- and the most environmentally friendly fuel in the world

Honda is leading the way, American companies could have, but they didn't have the foresight. A prototype Honda Solar Hydrogen Gas station:


Honda opens Solar Hydrogen station in Japan
http://world.honda.com/FuelCell/SolarHydrogenStation/

Hydrogen energy storage: power ramp-up at the MYRTE test platform. "Since 1/2012, this platform has connected photovoltaic solar panels to a hydrogen-based storage system. By joining the power grid, this provides a solution to the problem of intermittency & makes it one of the rare installations.."
http://www.pennenergy.com/articles/pennenergy/2014/05/hydrogen-energy-storage-power-ramp-up-at-the-myrte-test-platform.html

Siemens plans electrolyzer system to store wind power as hydrogen. The system, equipped with an electrolyzer from Siemens, will convert surplus electricity from wind farms to hydrogen. The hydrogen will then be stored locally in tankers or fed directly into the natural gas grid or used for fuel cell vehicles.
http://www.elp.com/articles/2014/05/siemens-plans-electrolyzer-system-to-store-wind-power-as-hydrogen.html

One day soon you will be able to fill your hydrogen car at night with the gas your solar system made during the day. That's better than any electricity from any source

"So I can work on a car that has zero emission, that uses fuel you can make from any domestic resource, fills up in a matter of minutes and can completely replace the internal combustion vehicle?" She says. "I became obsessed."-
Toyota wants you to meet an 'obsessed' hydrogen fuel cell engineer
http://green.autoblog.com/2014/05/08/toyota-wants-you-to-meet-obsessed-hydrogen-fuel-cell-engineer/

[hunter]

13. If cars are the answer, we're asking the wrong question...

... I see the future of the automobile more like this:

Take out your cell phone, tell the nice robot where you want to go and when, and the car will send you a text when it arrives at your house.

For most people owning a car will soon become an entirely unnecessary and expensive burden.

I also like the idea of city streets with low speed limits, but no traffic lights, with robot cars automatically negotiating intersections, automatically yielding for pedestrians and cyclists, and in very densely populated cities, vehicles entirely separated from cyclists and pedestrians.

In the ideal city most "transportation" would be by foot. Cities would be redesigned especially for that.

[nationalize the fed]

15. Didn't you say you were "ambivalent" or some such word about nuclear energy?

So nuclear plants are ok but hydrogen powered cars are not.

Got it.

[hunter]

17. I'm anti-automobile.

I'm not interested in hydrogen powered cars at all.

For environmental reasons I won't support anything that extends the life of the automobile culture.

I believe a world with a 35mph speed limit for anything but emergency vehicles would be a nice place.

It seems to me everyone is always in a great hurry to go nowhere. The oligarchy likes fast vehicles and shorter vacations for their wage slaves. Most of us are wage slaves. But our "productivity" is destroying the environment and making the oligarchs stronger.

Imagine instead a world with annual six consecutive week vacations, many long weekend holidays, and a year long vacation every decade or so.

We'd all have plenty of time to relax and enjoy the journey.

When I'm traveling in some enclosed device I like a window I can open so I can stick my nose out and know what's between here and there. I never wanted to live most of my life living a few footsteps away from a car that I am forced to own. I think the automobile culture is a kind of fascism. Everyone travels with a license plate on their butt and "papers please."

My wife and I managed to escape the commuter lifestyle decades ago. Alas in this culture, in most places, adults are expected to own a car and have a drivers license.

I hate my car. There is no car I wouldn't hate. I hate my drivers license and I rarely carry it with me, even while driving.

[nationalize the fed]

18. Didn't you say you were "ambivalent" or some such word about nuclear energy?

I'm anti Nuclear and Pro Hydrogen.

I can make Hydrogen at home

Cars will be around for hundreds of years. Deal with it.

Nuclear energy hopefully will be shelved until Fusion.

[hunter]

19. Fusion? God, I hope not.

Given cheap fusion humans as we are now will eat the earth.

Imagine a world of fusion powered machines like this:



This is also my main objection to nuclear power. It works.

At least the fossil fuel addiction is self-limiting. It's probably not possible to maintain an international consumer culture when coastal cities are drowning and food is being rationed.

Where are those container ships, coal carriers, oil and LNG tankers gonna dock?