Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumThe Insidious Marketing of the BDS Campaign
...People who know the facts struggle to understand how the public at large (both Jews and non-Jews), and supposedly educated college students in particular, can so easily embrace BDS fabrications, distortions, and outright lies.
The answer is simple: marketing.
The BDS movement took its marketing idea directly from the most infamously successful marketing campaign ever: Hitlers Master Race concept. What was Herr Goebbels marketing strategy? Tell a lie big enough and often enough, and people will begin to believe it. That, along with P.T. Barnums Theres a sucker born every minute, is the complete foundation of the BDS movement.
BDS successfully uses four tactics while meshing all seamlessly and insidiously:
http://www.algemeiner.com/2015/06/03/the-insidious-marketing-of-the-bds-campaign/
The world at large, and specifically most BDS supporters, believe that BDS seeks a two-state solution where a new country of Palestine will sit peacefully next to Israel. This is false. BDS written and stated goal is a single state of Palestine that includes present day Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza. Furthermore, by virtue of BDS several demands, Israel would no longer be a Jewish state, but rather would become as BDS co-founder Omar Barghouti has publicly stated a Palestinian state next to a Palestinian state.
2. Leveling unadulterated lies against and about Israel
In a propaganda video (produced by Students for Justice in Palestine) to convince students to vote to divest from Israel, a female student from Loyola University Chicago states: As an Ethiopian, I do not want the university that I attend to support a government that mistreats African immigrants seeking asylum and sterilizes 50% of the Ethiopian women upon entrance to Israel.
Although this student most likely believes that her statement is true, her massive ignorance does not mitigate the irreparable harm that she causes. Even though this type of exaggerated lie is no different than BDS garden variety lies, there is no legal deterrent to stop them. A person or organization cannot be sued for committing slander or libel against a people, race, religion, or country, no matter how blatantly offensive it is.
Through the dissemination of lies, such as the mass sterilization of innocent women of color, BDS achieves several goals:
Equates Israelis and Jews to Nazis
Promotes Israel as a racist country
Strengthens BDS ties with minority and progressive groups
Places Israel on the defensive
Legitimizes armed resistance (violence) against Israelis and Jews
Wins over the uninformed masses
Drives a wedge between the U.S. and Israel
The only recourse to lies is education. Unfortunately, by the time their lies are promoted and embraced globally, it is often too late to overcome.
3. Rewriting history while creating a new narrative
BDS actively markets the Palestinian Authoritys ongoing rewriting of history: both denying Jewish historic and modern day claims to Israel, while creating a new thousand year Palestinian history.
In BDS history of the Arab-Israeli conflict, there are no wars caused by the Arabs (if wars are mentioned at all), no Palestinian terrorism, no missiles against Israel, and certainly no violence against Jews.There is only the reporting of Arab deaths caused by Israel. Look no further than the United Auto Workers Local 2865 website. They voted to divest from Israel based on, among other things, listing the deaths of Arabs killed in Gaza by Israel with no mention of the Palestinian terrorist tunnels, kidnappings, murders, and missiles fired into Israel.
4. Deflecting from true human rights violators
Throughout the Arab world (including in the West Bank and Gaza), some Muslims commit human rights violations of the worst kind (including against their own people). Yet, in a twist of unparalleled marketing, BDS succeeds in getting many college students to believe that Israel a country with total gender, racial, sexual orientation, and religious equality is the single greatest human rights violator globally.
BDS deflection of human rights abuses away from the Arab-Muslim world and onto Israel further removes the Arab worlds responsibility for failing to correct the West Bank and Gaza Arabs situation since 1948. Where the Arab worlds money and influence could have established a culture of peaceful coexistence with a willing Israel, for political reasons, it purposely fostered an environment of hatred and violence....
http://www.algemeiner.com/2015/06/03/the-insidious-marketing-of-the-bds-campaign/
shira
(30,109 posts)...First, leaders of the BDS Movement such as Barghouti, a student at Tel Aviv University and founding member of the Palestinian Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel (PACBI), contrary to Beaumonts claim, have indeed advocated for violence.
Here are two quotes:
Omar Barghouti
-
International law does give people under occupation the right to resist in any way, including armed resistance. Omar Barghouti (4:08)
https://vimeo.com/75201955
http://ukmediawatch.org/2015/06/04/dont-believe-the-guardian-bds-is-neither-progressive-nor-non-violent/
shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)and if so, how does that make you any different to him?
shira
(30,109 posts)I'd say Hamas has this right, but their motivation isn't to defend. It's to kill as many people as possible, as well as putting their own children in harm's way for PR purposes. Besides, Israel doesn't attack in order to murder people for no good reason.
If you defend Hamas' right to defend themselves, provide a couple examples of this "legitimate" defense.
shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)Israel doesn't have the right to defend itself against conventional military attacks? Who knew...
What about Jewish resistance against the British occupation? Do you think Jews had the right of resistance in that respect?
shira
(30,109 posts)I didn't say Israel can only protect itself from terror w/o doing so against conventional military attacks.
Besides a few exceptions, the Jews went after British military targets. The intent wasn't to murder innocents, children, soft targets...
Do you believe Hamas has the right to fire rockets at towns & cities, send suicide bombers into buses & restaurants, or murder school children? Do you really see that as resistance to occupation, because I can't help but see it as a realization of their charter - to kill Jews everywhere.
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)The article from the Algemeiner is borderline fascist propaganda. I guess it's possible to use it as an example of what fascism looks like in the 21st century. Beyond that, I sincerely hope that nobody on this forum agrees with the OP, as the ideology expressed therein is the very antithesis of the values of the Democratic Party.
shira
(30,109 posts)And how is the content within the article the antithesis of the values of the Democratic Party?
Please be clear on both.
Thanks.
shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)There is no difference between people who avoid Israeli products because they don't like what Israelis do to the Palestinians, and the Jews who used to avoid buying German made products because of Germany's historic responsibility for the holocaust, or the people who used to boycott French products because of French nuclear testing in the pacific. Et cetera.
It is perfectly legal for people to boycott products because of any such reason and to encourage others to do the same.
All the hysteria to the contrary is simply that.
shira
(30,109 posts)....before 1967 was just as immoral & unjust.
Do you not agree?
It's all about the motivation of BDS, and we both know full well that their goal is the elimination of the Jewish state. Politicide. That's not non-violent. The aim isn't for peace. It's a pro-war movement according to the demands of BDS, and it's beyond disingenuous to deny this.
Israel, before 1967, summarily executed hundreds of Palestinians who attempted to return to their lands. It stole 70% of present day Israel from Arabs pursuant to the absentee property laws. Until 1966, it also kept almost its entire Arab population under military administration.
Well, they are seeking the end of Israel as an exclusively Jewish state through political, non-military means (essentially through diplomatic and economic pressure). If it did happen, I imagine that some people, probably Jews for the most part, would react to that violently - but it would be a bit of a reach to blame BDS for Jewish violence wouldn't it?
After all, I can't see you holding Jews responsible for Arab violence.
shira
(30,109 posts)From what source did you learn this schlock?
1. Israel isn't an exclusively Jewish state. You must have them confused with the PA & Hamas who call for a Jew-free Palestine.
2. Ending Israel as a Jewish state cannot happen by being boycotted or bullied politically. 2000 years of being easy targets for massacres and pogroms ended in 1948. Jews aren't going to just agree to go back to that way of life again. And can you really blame them?
It's not possible to change Israel into a state that's not Jewish. Look at the situation now in France for Jews. It would be far worse in Israel for Jews in a binational state or within a majority Arab state. Other than Switzerland, binational states don't work. See Lebanon for example - and it would be worse than that. Not to mention Jews haven't fared well as a minority in Arab nations the past 14 centuries. How can Israel be turned into a secular (non-Jewish) state w/o being conquered militarily? It's not the Jews who will resort to violence. The Jewish state will self-defend from being conquered. Being conquered is the only way Jewish sovereignty will end. Fat chance of that happening...
shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)For the killings of returning refugees:-
http://users.ox.ac.uk/~ssfc0005/Israels%20Dirty%20War.html
Examples of killings of refugees, from Benny Morris, "The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem":-
During the Second Truce, IDF outposts and patrols regularly harassed
harvesters between front line positions, behind the lines and in no mans
land, to a depth of 500600 metres though the phenomenon was not
as widespread as during the First Truce, when the harvest had been
at its height. The policy often involved destroying structures used by
harvesters for storage or sleep.
In the north, in early August an IDF intelligence officer recommended
mining a path near Kafr Misr and destroying the lean-tos of the Sabarja
tribe used by infiltrators trying to gather a little wheat or sorghum from
Kafr Misrs (and neighbouring (Jewish) Moledets) fields.200 A few days
later the Jezreel Battalion (Golani) reported that one of its patrols had
encountered groups of Arab women working fields near the abandoned
village of al Mujeidil: I (squad OC Shalom Lipman) ordered the machinegun
to fire three bursts over their heads, to drive them off. They fled in
the direction of the olive grove . . . But after the patrol left, the Arabs
returned. The patrol came back and encountered a group of Arab men
and women . . . I opened fire at them and as a result one Arab man died
and one Arab man and one woman were injured. In the two incidents, I
expended altogether 31 bullets. The following day, 6 August, the same
patrol encountered two Arab funeral processions. The commander remarked
dryly that one can assume that one of yesterdays wounded
died. A day or two later, the patrol again encountered a large group
of Arab women in the fields of Mujeidil. When we approached them to
drive them off, an Arab male (was found) hiding near them, (and) he was
executed by us. The women were warned not to return to this area of
Mujeidil. The company commanders comment, appended to the squad
OCs report, was: Arab women repeatedly attempt to return to Mujeidil,
and they are usually accompanied by men. I gave firm orders to stymie
every attempt (lehasel kol nisayon) to return to the area of the village
of Mujeidil and to act with determination.201 On 2 August, an ambush
set by C Company, 13th Battalion, near Saffuriya, encountered a group
of Arabs possibly intent on harvesting and opened fire, killing four
women and three men.202
Another execution was reported a fortnight later by a patrol in the
Negev. The force, probably belonging to the Negev Brigade, mined paths
east and south of the Rkaik Bridge near Kibbutz Mishmar Hanegev. An
Arab caravan with camels appeared on the scene. We opened fire at
close quarters. Some of the camels were killed and the Arabs, exploiting
the darkness, fled. Later, the patrol ambushed two more caravans,
killing additional camels altogether killing some 20 camels. All the
caravans were carrying wheat and barley. The patrol took prisoner an
Arab suspect. He couldnt explain what he was doing in the area. He
claimed to come from Nablus. (He) was executed because there was
no possibility of transferring him to base.203 Some miles to the north,
Givatis 52nd Battalion reported sending out a patrol to the fields of the
abandoned villages of Sawafir, Jaladiya and Beit Affa, where a large
number of Arabs were seen reaping . . . Most . . . were women and old
men. The patrol killed eight Arabs and detained three two men and a
child who were taken for questioning.20
Regarding the theft of land and absentee property laws:-
How much of Israel's territory consists of land confiscated with the Absentee Property Law is uncertain and much disputed. Robert Fisk interviewed the Israeli Custodian of Absentee Property, who estimates this could amount to up to 70% of the territory of Israel, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip:
The Custodian of Absentee Property does not choose to discuss politics. But when asked how much of the land of the state of Israel might potentially have two claimants an Arab and a Jew holding respectively a British Mandate and an Israeli deed to the same property Mr. Manor [the Custodian in 1980] believes that 'about 70 percent' might fall into that category (Robert Fisk, 'The Land of Palestine, Part Eight: The Custodian of Absentee Property', The Times, December 24, 1980, quoted in his book Pity the Nation: Lebanon at War).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_land_and_property_laws#The_.27Absentees_Property_Law.27
So you're saying that it is a Jewish and Arab state? A binational state, in other words?
shira
(30,109 posts)shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)when faced with an inconvenient truth. David Irving would be proud.
shira
(30,109 posts)Last edited Tue Jun 9, 2015, 06:31 PM - Edit history (2)
Trusty source, right?
Meanwhile, the link below show Benny Morris ripping Avi Shlaim a new one; destroying Shlaim's idiotic propaganda....
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/books-and-arts/derisionist-history?page=0,0
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)...how is it fascist to point that out?
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Literally everything found on Mondoweiss would fit that description. Along with several other sources that seem to be posted with some frequency here.
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)and the goal is to promote hatred. The target and the arguments were chosen before the subject, as the subject is unimportant.
I've read enough neo-fascist hate propaganda on the interwebs to say that that's what this is - hate propaganda. I have little interest in deconstructing the article, but the tone of the article - the hateful "know it all" angle is a dead giveaway - it's used to connect a group to negative properties, adn if repeated often enough it becomes "true". Another giveaway is the generous use of negative descriptions, and the total absence of neutral descriptions.
I sincerely doubt you could find something even remotely like this at Mondoweiss. It's entirely possible that you could find similar hate propaganda at EI, or anywhere else where the message is hatred. If you would find something like this at Mondoweiss, it would mean that Mondoweiss promotes hatred, and that's something which I am strongly against.
shira
(30,109 posts)EI's Ali Abunimah does too, and they're the most popular voices for BDS. What do you think about that?
Mondoweiss supports Hamas "resistance" in the form of terror as well. We all know Hamas' goal is to kill all Jews. If it's not pro-fascist hatred to support Hamas' goals, then what is?
If you're strongly against hatred and fascism, then how do you let Barghouti, BDS, and Mondoweiss off the hook? How could you possibly support all this?
Where am I wrong?
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)I can provide an example here from DU, an article that's similar to the OP in the sense that it's promoting hatred, in this case anti-Semitism. It could be argued that there's no formula in the article, but the target for the hate was obviously selected before the subject, which is the point (for me) anyway:
The Nakba: Israels Catastrophe (may 13, 2015, by Vacy Vlazna)
Read more: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1134103540
I'm not very familiar with Ali Abunimah Omar Barghouti et al, but if you actually find something hateful of theirs, I don't mind knowing about it.
As for that other thread, I don't want to have reply #436 in that thread, so, no thanks...
shira
(30,109 posts)Anyone supporting Hamas terror attacks that target Jews - when Hamas has made it clear they intentionally try to kill Jews worldwide - is a Jew hater.
What's not clear about that?
He also advocates for the end of the Jewish state of Israel - something President Obama identifies as antisemitic.
Where am I wrong?
==========================
I'd go on with Ali Abunimah, Mondoweiss, etc... but let's first see where you stand on Omar Barghouti.
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)The OP and the example I provided are good examples of what hate propaganda looks like. My initial argument still stands - The OP is hate propaganda.
shira
(30,109 posts)...dedicated to killing Jews worldwide? It's in the Hamas Charter as plain as day.
Your answer should be Yes.
Now, how is it not hateful to support Hamas terror attacks and violence against the Jews of Israel, as Barghouti does? It's not my assertion. Barghouti makes it clear he supports terror and violence against Jews.
What other way is there to see it?
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)What do you think of my classifying the OP as such?
shira
(30,109 posts)....violence against Jews? It's hate propaganda to reveal the BDS goal of eliminating the Jewish state?
President Obama says that wanting the Jewish state gone (thereby endangering the Jewish people) is antisemitism.
I don't see how you can claim the OP is hate speech. Can you point to particular parts of the article that are hateful?
===========
Meanwhile, here's Mondoweiss on Jews:
(a) that Jews are more inclined to cheat than are non-Jews, and indeed Jews dont even recognize it as cheating;
(b) that the American non-Jewish establishment made some sort of deal with the Jews back in the 70s, in which Jews provided their economic prowess to the U.S. in exchange for support for the Israel lobby (indeed, that one is so ridiculous that my fingers rebelled at typing it);
(c) Jewish media company CEOs force their Gentile employees to express support for Israel and
(d) that Jews need to understand our role in causing the Holocaust because of the power we had. Weiss now elaborates that hes talking about Jewish economic power, as if the German Jew who started as a peddler and built his business into a chain of department stores wasnt simply an individual Jewish businessman who found success, but instead part of a cabal of Jews using their power to undermine the Gentiles, who retaliated via the Holocaust.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/05/04/mondoweiss-is-a-hate-site/
Can you acknowledge how hateful that Mondoweiss article is?
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)I think the OP is hate propaganda - you don't.