The old man and the 'strip and swim' procedure

[kayecy]

http://www.haaretz.com/news/features/the-old-man-and-the-strip-and-swim-procedure-1.434237
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This strip-and-swim procedure is carried out several times a month: summer and winter, day and night, hot and cold, old and young, it makes no difference. More often, the gunboats shoot at the fishing skiffs. Al-Mezan, the Gazan human rights organization, has recorded 12 instances in May of the Israeli navy firing live ammunition at fishing boats that set out from the Gazan ports. The navy detained nine fishermen (all of whom were released within 12 hours ) and confiscated four fishing boats and their equipment (which are returned, usually in damaged condition, after about a year )
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[kayecy]

1. And Israelis wonder why so many Arabs hate them!...........n/t

Would Israel tolerate the Syrian navy stopping Israeli fisherman and subjecting them to such harassment?

[nofurylike]

2. as if Israel has ever vowed, and smuggled, to annihilate Syria. nt

[jerseyjack]

3. Yeah, and the Israelies loves them their Iranians and Lebanese, too.

[King_David]

4. Can you elaborate on that thought?

' Israelis wonder why so many Arabs hate them'

Thanks in advance.

[azurnoir]

5. well why don't you share your thoughts on this with us

I think the article that was posted here was the DUer your questionings example

[shira]

6. looks like justification for antisemitic acts of hatred to me. n/t

Last edited Mon Jun 4, 2012, 07:33 PM - Edit history (1)

[rbixby]

7. Is any criticism of Israel considered anti-semitic?

I think that Israel as a country has some very poor policies relating to their neighbors, but I don't think that those policies reflect on the jewish people as a whole.

[shira]

8. not all criticism of Israel is antisemitic....

...but what do you make of a statement like this:

"And Jews wonder why people hate them so much".

[azurnoir]

9. looks more like you fail to differentiate between Israel and Jews

Last edited Mon Jun 4, 2012, 04:06 PM - Edit history (1)

because your statement is quite different from the one in comment #1

[rbixby]

10. True that NT

[shira]

11. Which Israelis wonder why Arabs hate them so much? All of them...

...or just the Jews? Or are you suggesting Arab Israelis might wonder why they're hated so much by Arabs?

[azurnoir]

12. well it becomes apparent only one group of Israeli's counts in your opinion and that group means

all Jews apparently but Israeli Arabs might be hated by Arabs outside of Israel, do you think that in a battle Hamas or IJ would say "wait don't shoot him , he looks like an Arab"?

[shira]

14. So you think there are Arab Israelis wondering why they are hated...

...by their fellow Arabs outside of Israel.

That's fascinating.

As to your question, the target of terror attacks are Jews. In the PMW videos, you'll notice the intended targets of terror and incitement are Jews, not Arabs. Not Israelis either, but Jews.

[azurnoir]

15. Thanks shira you just confirmed my comment

of course a biased right wing antiPalestinian organization dedicated todemonizing Palestinians and at the very least keeping status quo intact such as PMW will play that line no surprises there, its what they exist to do and they seem to be one of your absolute favorites too, why is that?

[shira]

16. So do you have evidence that Palestinians hate Israelis generally, not particularly Jews?

I'll wait for that one.

As to PMW, they simply report what the PA/Hamas are doing against the interests of peace. It's legitimate criticism, not demonization. I think it's fascinating you believe the videos @ PMW should be censored and ignored. As if by doing so, peace would happen sooner. Again, I must ask you what kind of peace do you envision in the mideast since you believe videos like that should be ignored and censored?

BTW, do you think anyone on this forum would have a problem with an organization dedicated to publicizing Kahanist incitement and hatred? Can you imagine anyone here criticizing such an organization for demonizing Kahanists?

[azurnoir]

17. oh I do not believe that PMW should be ignored at all and one other thing

however I think their purpose should be kept in mind and that as you have confirmed is to demonize Palestinians for 'hating' their military rulers heavens fore fend such a thing, good thing video wasn't around during the British rule of Palestine, huh? but it must burn so that despite the efforts of such organizations the US government will still fund the very Palestinians that you claim wish to kill every Jew on Earth. Oh BTW hasn't MEMRI who does most the PMW translations been caught translating Israel as Jews and statements such as "I will be killed" as "I will kill"?

Now the other thing as to your claim that Palestinian terrorists target only Jews in Israel if Israeli society is as open as claimed here how is that possible? How does a terrorist get on a bus or go to let's see a pizza parlor open to the Israeli public and be assured of killing only Jews? Either Israel has a quiet type segregation going where only Jews are allowed certain places or terrorists are willing to kill Israeli Arabs too, so which is it?

[holdencaufield]

18. "Demonize"

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

[azurnoir]

19. lol n/t

[shira]

23. So you don't trust PMW due to one translation of "I will be killed" vs. "I will kill"?

That one translation discredits everything they report. Is that correct? Thousands of articles and hundreds of videos later, and that's the worst PMW has done?

Which means we can safely ignore all the content at PMW and pretend none of it is true?

[Shaktimaan]

33. How is it possible?

Now the other thing as to your claim that Palestinian terrorists target only Jews in Israel if Israeli society is as open as claimed here how is that possible? How does a terrorist get on a bus or go to let's see a pizza parlor open to the Israeli public and be assured of killing only Jews?

It seems quite easy to me. Now, no one said that terrorists make absolutely sure that no non-Jews are ever injured in their attacks. They said that only Jews are targeted, which seems to be obvious. How does one target Jews and not Arabs? Well, past terrorist attacks have targeted events like Passover Seders, or nightclubs and pizza parlors known to be local meeting spots for young Israeli Jews.

Either Israel has a quiet type segregation going where only Jews are allowed certain places or terrorists are willing to kill Israeli Arabs too, so which is it?

Terrorists are willing to accept Arab collateral damage obviously. Their rockets often fall within Gaza for example. If they cared about ensuring that no Arabs got hurt then pretty much all of their tactics would be rendered unavailable. That said, there is a tremendous amount of de facto segregation within Israel, and targeting only Jews while avoiding Arabs is not tremendously difficult to do.

And it is quite obvious from both their words and deeds that they are targeting Jewish Israelis... not all Israelis.

[azurnoir]

34. So IOW they do not target only Jews thanks n/t

[Shaktimaan]

35. No.

Did you read my post? It was extremely clear.
They DO target only Jews. They occasionally hit non-Jews.

Do you have any examples of Palestinian terrorist groups targeting Israeli Arabs? Any evidence that supports the notion whatsoever?

[rbixby]

27. How is this a justification for Israel's bad behavior though?

And saying that criticism of Israel is antisemitic is like saying that criticizing the Bush administration was unamerican. Its pretty much the same thing if you think about it that way.

[shira]

29. No one claims justification for anything. And not all criticism of Israel is antisemitic.

As for Israel's "bad behavior", I'll believe it when there's more credible evidence than Amira Hass' reporting. Her reporting is extremely political and no more credible than the looniest "news" reported by extreme rightwing hacks.

[King_David]

13. That is what I thought nt

[kayecy]

22. I agree with you Shira....Harassment of innocents is very likely to lead to hatred, desperation etc

"looks like justification for antisemitic acts of hatred to me"

I agree with you Shira....Harassment of innocents is very likely to lead to hatred, desperation, antisemitic acts and even terrorism.


Since any half-capable terrorist can bring in all the weapons he wants via Egypt, why do you think the IDF are harrassing poor fishermen?.

[shira]

24. You're assuming Amira Hass is a credible, trustworthy news source. I'm not. n/t

[kayecy]

26. I suppose you think we should wait for the IDF investigation?...Fat chance!.......n/t

[shira]

28. Just as you wouldn't take extreme settler claims seriously, I don't take Amira Hass...

...claims seriously either. But I suppose the IDF should investigate claims from both extremes to be fair, right?

[kayecy]

20. Elaborate....isn't it obvious?

' Israelis wonder why so many Arabs hate them'


Persecuting impoverished fishermen is disgusting, racist and encouragement of terrorism.


I would hate anyone that harassed me like this, wouldn't you?...........or perhaps you think such harassment is justified?

[oberliner]

21. You'd think Arabs would hate Syrians even more

Why would Arabs care so much more about what happens to Arabs with respect to Israel as opposed to what happens to Arabs in other countries?

Even using the term Arabs and making such a broad statement seems pretty ridiculous.

[kayecy]

25. That's a rather naive question, isn't it?

Why would Arabs care so much more about what happens to Arabs with respect to Israel as opposed to what happens to Arabs in other countries?

That's a rather naive question, isn't it?

Most people are nationalist some some extent and care more when they are victims of foreigners, especially those of a different race, religion or language, than they do when they are victims of their own nationals.


Anyway with an Arab-Israeli history covering 1917 Balfour, 1929 Revisionist anti-Arab demonstration, 1936 Arab revolt, 1937 Peel Partition plan, 1948 Arab-Israeli war, 1948 Nakba, 1967 occupation, 1987 1st Intifada, 2000 2nd Intifada, 2006 Cast lead etc, don't you think the IDF should be bending over back wards to avoid anything that might provoke more Arab violence?

[oberliner]

30. I think it's extremely insightful - and uncomfortable for many

Your comments about nationalism make no sense, unless you believe there is one single Arab nation, a la what Nasser was going on about back in the day. In which case, there is no distinction between Palestinians, Jordanians, Egyptians, etc. Is this something you believe?

[kayecy]

31. Mmmm......Perhaps you are being a bit too insightful....

Your comments about nationalism make no sense, unless you believe there is one single Arab nation, a la what Nasser was going on about back in the day

I was using the word 'nationalism' in the sense of 'the Arab Middle East community'

The vast majority of Arabs in the Middle East consider themselves part of the Ummah...You will remember when Israel invaded the West Bank in the spring of 2002 ordinary people in the Arab world collectively exploded with outrage....Surely that was a clear indication that Arabs do care how Israel treats Palestinians?


You say that ..."using the term Arabs and making such a broad statement seems pretty ridiculous".... So far you have failed to explain why you think it ridiculous.
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[oberliner]

32. Maybe so

Thanks for the clarification.