Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumIsrael asks Arab visitors to open emails to search
'The idea that somebody my age, a Quaker, on a peace delegation with folks from the U.S., would be denied entry that never crossed my mind'<snip>
"When Sandra Tamari arrived at Israel's international airport, she received an unusual request: A security agent pushed a computer screen in front of her, connected to Gmail and told her to "log in."
The agent, suspecting Tamari was involved in pro-Palestinian activism, wanted to inspect her private email account for incriminating evidence. The 42-year-old American of Palestinian descent refused and was swiftly expelled from the country.
Tamari's experience is not unique. In a cyber-age twist on Israel's vaunted history of airport security, the country has begun to force incoming travelers deemed suspicious to open personal email accounts for inspection, visitors say.
Targeting mainly Muslims or Arabs, the practice appears to be aimed at rooting out visitors who have histories of pro-Palestinian activism, and in recent weeks, has led to the expulsion of at least three American women."
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Lawlbringer
(550 posts)my penis directly?
oberliner
(58,724 posts)How long is the list of countries they are denied entry to?
Even people who have once visited Israel are banned from entry to a host of countries.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)so are you supporting this when it comes to Americans or just those of Palestinian or Arab ancestry? or was it a 'just sayin is all' type of post?
oberliner
(58,724 posts)One thing has nothing to do with the other.
Countries have their rules about who they let in.
Most countries in the region don't let in Israelis.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)it was indeed turnabout IMO
oberliner
(58,724 posts)It's hard to be an Israeli who wants to visit Arab countries. Pretty much out of luck.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)so what relevance to this story would such and observation have?
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)The other case, which is the problematic case occurring here, is an active search. In this case, when crossing the border, the state requests not to search his property or body, but to see what is stored far away, in the cloud and outside his control. A persons email account, which is not stored on his computer, does not exist in his computer and does not pass the border with him. Here, more than anything, the traveler has a reasonable expectation for privacy; in the same way he had when he left other possessions at home.
The question of authority arises. While the authority to inspect a persons property is understandable, this case is more like the state approaching a person travelling to Israel and requesting his consent to go to his house and open up his safe.
Now, the second question, regarding forensics, arises. As we know, there is a detailed praxis on how to deal with computer evidence: first we copy everything, and only afterwards we search (for example, OR 1153/02 State v. Abergil). The reason is simple: the search itself touches the files, alters them, creates signatures and messes up the chain of evidence. Therefore, even searching email accounts should be made in the same way: first copy all the inbox, then sort it out.
All of this does not occur here: the chain of evidence is dubious when the user is logged in to the computer. In another case, such a hot search nearly led to the acquittal of a pedophile, only because the police did not first copy, but searched on the persons computer
http://972mag.com/is-israels-search-through-visitors-email-accounts-legal/47610/
oberliner
(58,724 posts)She should've refused to type in her info. Maybe then followed that up with a lawsuit. Although a Mondoweiss post seems to have been pretty effective.
Also interesting - is it legal to lie to security officials about what you are doing when you enter the country?
The article talks about how people who plan to visit the West Bank are instructed to lie to the Israeli officials about their plans to do so.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)the OP mentions several cases and one in which an American was denied entry due to her ethnic ancestry
oberliner
(58,724 posts)She logged in to her account and let them go through her email.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)perhaps in the future you should be more specific as to just what you are talking about most of us address the article that was posted not one of a number links contained within that article
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Unlike some folks here, I actually read the links included with the articles!
Shaktimaan
(5,397 posts)States have extremely wide parameters in deciding whether to let someone into their country. Anyone can refuse to show their emails, of course. But then they might have their entry denied, be detained and sent home. There is no "right" to privacy in these cases. The state is under no obligation to let anyone in to their state under any circumstance. Nor does the visitor have any implicit rights beyond those granted by Israeli law.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)but basically what you are saying is that Israel has the right to go into a persons home no matter where it is and search prior to allowing them to enter the country, because that is what allowing a search of something not actually on ones computer but only contained in the cloud amounts to`, but Israel does have the right to deny any person entry based on reason even their parents ethnic background.
Shaktimaan
(5,397 posts)It is not like searching their house, the house is not with them and thus, is not possible to search. The issue is not whether the data is physically contained on the device or not. The device provides access to the data and it is only a change in technology that allows someone to hold their documents off-person while still having the ability to access them anywhere they go.
Now, I could say that it is this ability to access documents that gives the Israelis the right to do the same. That accessing physical documents, digital documents held locally on a laptop and digital documents held on a cloud are essentially the same because they are each merely newer incarnations of the same basic element... documents. But it is not even the ability of the visitor to access these files that grants Israeli customs the right to access them.
What it does do is grant Israel the ABILITY to do so. And it is through this ability that Israel's rights flow. As a country controlling its borders, Israel has every right to inspect anything belonging to the visitor that it is able to inspect.
The fact that it resides off-person only gives the visitor the ability to decline the search with Israel having no recourse to force it. That's the sole (and substantial), benefit that the visitor gets from using cloud based documents.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)however I also find Israel's basing the search on her parents ethnic background questionable but that is another story
oberliner
(58,724 posts)An Arab-American should not have to endure this sort of treatment from an ally without just cause. Quite frankly, it is embarrassing that the US embassy did not offer any real assistance in this case. Hopefully stories like this will get the word out and US officials will raise the issue with their Israeli counterparts.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Specifically from here:
Do you feel more Arab or more American?: Two womens story of being detained and interrogated at Ben Gurion
http://mondoweiss.net/2012/06/do-you-feel-more-arab-or-more-american-two-arab-american-womens-story-of-being-detained-and-interrogated-at-ben-gurion.html
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)but thanks for the link all the same
oberliner
(58,724 posts)If I was them, I'd consider a lawsuit.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)contained much more personal information than MSNBC, but you are entitled to your opinion
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Entire paragraphs pretty much word for word. The same quotes too. It's almost like they are passing it off like they did the interview.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)it would be of interest
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Read them and it will be self-evident.