Bernie Sanders Has It Right On Israel

[cali]

Following the 2016 US presidential elections, the next administration must adopt a new and realistically balanced policy toward Israel and the Palestinians to bring an end to their conflict in the context of a comprehensive Arab-Israeli peace that’s based on the Arab Peace Initiative. Throughout the primary campaign, only Senator Bernie Sanders had a position on this conflict that was fresh, balanced, and welcome — especially given the increased intractability of the conflict and its dangerous implications not only for Israel and the Palestinians, but also for the US’ strategic interests in the Middle East.

The continuation of the conflict also has direct consequences on the security of the EU, precisely because it feeds into the region’s extremism from which the EU suffers greatly. In this regard, France’s initiative to resume Israeli-Palestinian negotiations is timely and should be pursued despite the initial lack of consensus at a recent meeting in Paris between the European, American, and Arab foreign ministers on convening an international conference at the end of the year to address the conflict in earnest.

Throughout the primary campaign, Sanders articulated his position concerning the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, stating that: “I read Secretary Clinton’s speech before AIPAC, I heard virtually no discussion at all about the needs of the Palestinian people… Of course Israel has a right to defend itself, but long term there will never be peace in that region, unless the United States plays… an even-handed role in trying to bring people together and recognizing the serious problems that exist among the Palestinian people … There comes a time when if we pursue justice and peace we are going to have to say that Netanyahu is not right all of the time.”

What is admirable about his stand is not that it is new, but that it is articulated by a significant presidential candidate. Although he has failed to secure the nomination of the Democratic Party, he has become a major political force — and the presumptive nominee, Hillary Clinton, must seriously take into account his position on this critical issue.

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https://www.algemeiner.com/2016/06/14/bernie-sanders-has-it-right-on-israel/#

[democrank]

1. "....virtually no discussion at all about the needs of the Palestinian people...."

Thank you once again, Bernie.

[shira]

3. They need better leadership committed to peace and 2 states. That's their need.

Leaders committed to their well-being, not warmongerers.

[truebluegreen]

4. So do the Israelis.

[shira]

5. The Israelis have already offered to end the occupation/settlements multiple times....

There comes a point in time when you have to question WTF the Palestinians are doing rejecting offers for their own state when no other people would do that.

Hint:

They don't want any deal that leaves Israel intact.

[truebluegreen]

6. Talking about now, not

16 years ago, or 8 years ago. Now.

[Fozzledick]

7. The situation now is that the PLO is refusing to go back to the negotiations they walked out of

after bragging that they never intended to actually negotiate in the first place, they were just fishing for unilateral concessions.

[shira]

2. What's Sanders going to do to force Hamas & the PA to agree to any peace deal?

What can Israel offer the Palestinians that they haven't offered already in 2000, 2001, or 2008?

This conflict should have ended 15 years ago.

The Palestinian leadership continues to say no, hoping to hold out for a better deal that will eventually destroy Israel. With that attitude, this conflict will never end and that's not Israel's fault.

[Little Tich]

8. Israel could offer a viable Palestinian state for starters.

That idea may seem a bit preposterous, but it's never been tried. Remove the settlements and the occupation - allow an independent and functional economy that doesn't need massive amounts of aid, giving Palestine control of it's own territory and resources - stuff like that...

[shira]

10. They already have offered all that. You're defending the PA/Hamas for rejection....

Last edited Fri Jun 17, 2016, 04:44 PM - Edit history (2)

They want mass murder of Jews.
What makes you think they'd take a better offer that leaves Israel intact?

Right, nothing. No evidence.

Their call for RoR is a non-starter. You know how that would endanger Jews, not just in Israel but worldwide.

Why pretend otherwise?

[Little Tich]

11. Funny, I don't remember any Israeli offer that would remove the settlements and the occupation... n/

[shira]

12. The 2001 and 2008 offers would do just that. Know your history. n/t

[Israeli]

13. Good advice shira .....

'There was no generous offer': A history of peace talks

http://972mag.com/on-palestinian-positions-israeli-pundits-are-all-spin/90137/

For 26 years, Abbas has presented the same set of conditions for a permanent agreement. A Palestinian state established on the pre-1967 lines with its capital in East Jerusalem, and a mutually agreed upon resolution to the issue of the refugees. That is the price. He has not moved a fraction of an inch since 1988. Those are the conditions he presented in Oslo in 1993 and that’s what was on the table during a series of talks that took place when Ariel Sharon was foreign minister during Netanyahu’s first term as prime minister in the 1990s (is there anyone who even remembers those talks? There was a meeting-and-a-half or so). That was Abbas’s position at Camp David in 2000, at Taba in January 2011, and at Annapolis in 2007. The Palestinian position has consistently been that Israel would take 2-to-4 percent of the West Bank and compensate them for every yard of territory. In the eyes of the Palestinians, this is a huge concession compared to what was granted them under the partition agreement of 1947, and in light of their historical rights. You can agree or you can disagree, but that is their price and apparently there is no way to maneuver around it.

[shira]

14. There's the 2008 Olmert offer, which you supported.

The problem is right-of-return & unbridled hatred of Jews, not a few percentage points of land.

But you know this already.

[Israeli]

15. Asked and answered already shira .....

Ref : http://www.democraticunderground.com/1134129772

" Why should Abbas accept an Israeli plan from a bankrupt politician before negotiations?"

They will give up ROR in return for East Jerusalem shira .

As for " unbridled hatred of Jews " ....no I dont know that , not the Palestinians I know shira ...maybe those you know ?

[shira]

16. A poor excuse for Abbas. The world would've backed the deal...

Last edited Sun Jun 19, 2016, 07:43 AM - Edit history (1)

Looks like you're not as supportive of 2 states as you claim to be. If you were, you'd be quite upset with Abbas - not making excuses for him.

not the Palestinians I know shira ...maybe those you know ?

Could you name a couple of popular Palestinians you support & admire, please?

[Israeli]

17. Well its his excuse and he is sticking to it ......

Herzog agreed to ’67 lines in talks with Abbas, report says

In negotiations with PA leader ahead of 2015 elections, envoy for prospective PM learned a deal was possible ‘on everything’

BY DOV LIEBER June 19, 2016

Opposition leader Isaac Herzog held secret talks with PA President Mahmoud Abbas during the 2014-2015 election cycle, and agreed to cede the entire West Bank and East Jerusalem to the Palestinians as part of a future peace deal, according to report published on Thursday.

Herzog’s negotiator, former minister Efraim Sneh, and a Palestinian Authority representative who remained unnamed reached an agreement under which Palestinian refugees would receive financial compensation, the Western Wall would remain under Israeli control, and Israel would retain a “symbolic” military presence in the Jordan Valley, alongside Palestinian and Jordanian soldiers, Channel 10 reported.

“I learned that there is someone to talk with, something to talk about, and that we can arrive at understandings on everything,” Sneh said of the negotiations.

He said that the provisional negotiations was cut short by the result of the elections, which saw Herzog, who was thought to have a chance to win the premiership, soundly lose to Netanyahu.

According to the report, Herzog was willing to withdraw to the 1967 lines in full, with the exception of mutual land swaps on four percent of the territory. Land swaps would be negotiated so that Israel could retain control of its largest settlement blocs.

The final-status equation for Jerusalem would have seen the east of the city become the capital of a Palestinian state, with a single municipality would be responsible for the two capitals.

The Temple Mount — the site on which the two ancient Jewish temples once stood and where the Islamic holy sites of the al-Aqsa Mosque and Dome of the Rock now stand — was supposed to be under the authority of a multinational force, but with Israeli sovereignty over the Western Wall, the report said.

The Palestinian refugee issue was to be settled based on UN Resolution 194 and the Arab Peace Initiative, according to the report, with financial compensation for the majority of refugees and a “symbolic” return for some based on a “joint decision.”

Herzog confirmed the talks with Abbas, and asserted that had they come to fruition they would have forestalled the wave of violence that swept across Israel and the West Bank in late 2015 and early 2016.

“During the talks with the Palestinian Authority president in 2014, I made efforts aimed at reaching understandings that would have prevented the wave of terror that I anticipated, just like the efforts I am now making so that the abandonment of the initiative for a regional conference by the extreme right-wing government won’t lead us to another war,” he said. “After rounds of wars and funerals nearly every year and over the past decade, I won’t listen to the mantra that threats can only be subdued through military force.”

Herzog added: “Most peace agreements came after a difficult round of bloodshed between peoples fighting each other. The right always offers us war and then runs to sign peace treaties. We are just offering to reverse the order and prevent hundreds of fathers and mothers from visiting military cemeteries. The right should also consider this.”

Abbas has said that negotiations with Olmert nearly led to an agreement, but then the former prime minister fell into legal troubles and was out of office.

Abbas said he also felt Olmert’s offer to accept a symbolic number of Palestinian refugees into Israel did not resolve the issue .

The current Israeli government is calling for direct negotiations with the PA, but the Palestinians are instead pinning their hopes on the French initiative, which calls for a regional and international approach to negotiations.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/herzog-agreed-to-67-lines-in-talks-with-abbas-report-says/

************

So what do you think of Herzog's plan shira ????

Anything you would change ???

As for " Could you name a couple of popular Palestinians you support & admire, please? "........nope ............whats a popular Palestinian anyhow ???

Those I know are just ordinary folk shira , some I have known for years ....you do realize we meet dont you ??

ref : ......

49 Years of Occupation – Palestinians and Israelis, together in the Freedom March

Forty-Nine years of despair, hatred, violence, and fear. Now it is time to move on! It’s time to be free of the Occupation.

Forty-Nine years of full control over the Palestinians have led us to an unprecedented nadir of racism, extrajudicial executions, arrests of minors and expulsion of individuals.

Forty-Nine years of control over an entire nation have raised a generation who have only known war, threats, hatred and hostility towards another nation.

It is finally time change directions -- to respect the rights of both peoples to live independently and justly, and to release them both from the bonds of occupation.

Join us in marking the Occupation’s 49th anniversary with a large Israeli-Palestinian demonstration against continued control -- together; To show that there is an alternative to this reality, to cry out against those who promise us that we will live by the sword forever.

The demonstration is organized by Combatant for Peace and Standing Together.
Transportation: - Tel Aviv – 11:45 from Arlozorov (Merkaz Savidor) Train Station, - Jerusalem – 12:30am from Liberty Bell Park (Gan Ha’Paamon) - Transportation from Haifa and Be’er Sheva will be available on request. Please register by completing this form >>> https://goo.gl/yvwkB0

Source : http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/events/1464389870

[shira]

18. Seems Herzog's plan is about the same as Olmert's.

Not sure what makes it better than Olmert's since his plan was to divide the city into differently ruled areas. The problem is Right-of-Return. We both know that if Abbas confronts his people about a symbolic return, he's a dead man within a week. So I'll believe it when I see it. You agree?

A popular Palestinian is just someone who is known, or has been in the media somehow, that's all. I'm sure you know many ordinary Palestinians. I'm just interested in those you admire who would easily fit the western description of a liberal/progressive. If you can't name any, then I can only assume the Palestinians you admire would be categorized here in the West as rightwingers.

[Israeli]

19. No I dont agree shira .

I already stated ....that it is my opinion that a compromise can be made between full ROR for East Jerusalem as the capital of a Palestinian state .

Compromises have to be made on both sides shira .

" A popular Palestinian is just someone who is known, or has been in the media somehow "

Ah ...okay .....then Mustafa Barghouti

ref : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustafa_Barghouti