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Violet_Crumble

(35,990 posts)
Sat Jun 25, 2016, 09:06 AM Jun 2016

I知 Not Anti-Israel, I知 Ambi-Israel

By ETGAR KERETJUNE 24, 2016

TEL AVIV — I was recently honored to learn that I had won the Charles Bronfman Prize. It’s an award that recognizes humanitarian work inspired by Jewish values, and I was overwhelmed and thrilled to receive it. Several news outlets reported on the announcement, and one headline in particular caught my attention: “Anti-Israel Author Etgar Keret Awarded Bronfman Prize,” proclaimed FrontPage Mag, a conservative website.

As I perused the article and the online comments (debating the best way to connect with my books, one reader suggested throwing them in the toilet and flushing them with urine), I found myself contemplating the term “anti-Israel.” Apparently a person cannot engage in Middle Eastern political issues without being quickly labeled “anti-Israeli” or “anti-Palestinian” (or sometimes, if his or her opinions are complicated enough, both).

We are all familiar with the term “anti.” We understand what it is to be “anti-Semitic,” “anti-gay” or “anti-Communist.” But what exactly does “anti-Israel” mean? After all, Israel is a state, and we rarely encounter someone who is “anti-Switzerland” or “anti-Netherlands.” Unlike ideologies, which we can attempt to sweepingly reject, when it comes to states there are complex, multifaceted, heterogeneous entities, and that much is clear to anyone who sets out to defend or attack them. For example, we can be grateful for the Dutch people who hid Anne Frank in their attic, while at the same time criticizing the Dutch citizens who volunteered for the S.S. We can adore the soccer talent that evolved in that same country, but be less admiring of aged Dutch cheeses.

<snip>

Which brings me back to my initial question: Why is it that people refuse to accept this reductive perspective on most aspects of our lives, yet they adopt it without batting an eye when it comes to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? Why, for example, are people who are appalled by the death of Palestinian children in an Israeli Air Force bombing of Gaza, or horrified when Israeli children are killed in a terrorist attack, moved to these reactions by an unbending support of the Palestinian people, or of the Israeli nation, rather than by a no-less-fervent defense of innocent lives in general?

My theory is that many people on both sides of this dichotomy are tired of earnestly debating the specifics and find it easier to demand a tribal discourse, the kind that essentially resembles a sports fan’s unequivocal support of a team. This denies a priori the possibility of criticizing the group you support, and moreover, if done properly, can absolve you from voicing any empathy for the other side. The “anti” or “pro” appeal aims to invalidate any discussion of tiresome issues like “occupation,” “coexistence” or “two-state solution,” replacing them with a simple binary model: us versus them.

<snip>

To lend a helping hand to those who are fond of simplified labels, I would like to suggest a third option. Let’s call it “ambi.” The terms “ambi-Israeli” or “ambi-Palestinian” will simply indicate that our opinions on Middle Eastern affairs, while they may be resolute, are complex. Those with “ambi” positions will be allowed to support an end to the occupation while still condemning Hamas; they may believe that the Jewish people deserve a state but also maintain that Israel should not occupy territories that do not belong to it. Careful application of this new label might enable us to delve deeper into the essential arguments around the conflict and its resolution, instead of merely squirting water at one another in the shallow end of the pool.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/25/opinion/im-not-anti-israel-im-ambi-israel.html?_r=0


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Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
1. If you're pro-settlements and the occupation, you're pro-Israel. If you're against, you're
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 01:56 AM
Jun 2016

anti-Israel.

At least that's what those who favor the settlements and the occupation want you to believe...

For me, the label isn't very important - I'm against racism and discrimination, and if people think that's anti-Israel, then that reflects their beliefs more than mine.

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
2. You're pro-settlements & occupation since you reject every offer Israel has ever made....
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 08:11 AM
Jun 2016

...to end the settlements and occupation.

Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
3. I'm not aware of any offer from the Israeli side that would "end the settlements"...
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 10:40 PM
Jun 2016

All Israeli offers that I know of leave most or all settlements where they are. And the occupation will not be considered ended until every single member of the occupying force has gone back to the other side of the Green line, and Palestine has full control of its borders with unhindered access to the outside world...

If you know of any Israeli offers that are in line with international law and the UN resolutions (or the 2002 Arab Peace Initiative, which is based on them), please let me know...

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
4. Clinton Initiatives 2001. Olmert 2008.
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 06:02 AM
Jun 2016

You don't want the settlements/occupation to end.

Mahmoud Abbas and the Saudi Peace Plan are supportive of land swaps. You're not, but then again neither is Hamas.

Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
6. The problem is that a viable Palestinian state means that the settlements have to go - all of them.
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 10:12 PM
Jun 2016

These "offers" apart from being too vague to be meaningful or offered under circumstances that made them worthless didn't address that issue at all. Not removing any settlements doesn't mean an "end to settlements", and the possible land swaps that would keep a Palestinian state viable won't include areas where the settlements are. I've shown you a map of the settlements in the West Bank before, and I've tried to show you how every single settlement is an impediment to a viable Palestinian state.

It's simple: Israel can keep the settlements or have a Palestinian state, but not both...

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
7. Your position is more hardline extreme than the PLO & Saudi Initiative....
Tue Jun 28, 2016, 10:17 AM
Jun 2016

No one serious in the world advocates for Israel getting out of all settlements.

Shows you're not serious about peace, because that's not happening.

The PLO and Saudis don't go that far.


Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
10. I know it's not going to happen- and that's why I think the one-state solution is inevitable.
Tue Jun 28, 2016, 09:24 PM
Jun 2016

Besides, the removal of all or almost all of the settlements is the position of the PLO and the Arab League, as well as the UN - the illegal settlements are illegal and have to go. International law trumps Eretz Yisrael.

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
11. It's not inevitable. Gaza could merge with Egypt & the W.Bank with Jordan....
Tue Jun 28, 2016, 10:13 PM
Jun 2016

That's actually more likely than a 1-state solution.

Violet_Crumble

(35,990 posts)
8. The urge to slap pro and anti labels on others is overwhelming for some folk
Tue Jun 28, 2016, 06:37 PM
Jun 2016

I regularly criticise Australia but I don't see people slapping an anti Australia label on me. Same goes for criticism of Indonesia for their occupation of west Papua. The labels are a tool in simplifying what is a complex issue where neither side comes out smelling like roses. Slap labels on people and there's no need for any real thought.

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