Racism-as-Zionism. Don't Call It 'pro-Israel.' Call It What It Is: Disgusting

[Israeli]

It's time to stop pretending that racism can ever be good for the Jews.

Bradley Burston Aug 30, 2016

No more.
It's time to stop pretending that racism can ever be good for the Jews. Not in practice, and not in propaganda.

It's time to stop fooling ourselves that there's any reasonable benefit for Israel in practicing racism against Palestinians, whether in flagrantly discriminatory policies in East Jerusalem and the West Bank, or in less obvious but still keenly felt official inequality toward Palestinian citizens of Israel.

It's time, as well, to call out "Pro-Israel" voices who "defend" Israel by demonizing and dehumanizing Palestinians as a people, as a society, as a whole and as individuals. It's time we called racism-as-Zionism what it is: Disgusting.

It's time to stand up and answer the know-it-all social media zealots who, from the comfort and insulation of their armchairs in North American suburbs, post incessantly about how all Palestinians — people whom they've never ever met nor spoken with — are fanatic, base, primitive, bloodthirsty Jew-hating animals, for whom Jew-murder is the be-all and end-all of their lives, and — incidentally — are also not a real people, so deserve no rights beyond the right to be expelled.

read more: http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.739385

[TubbersUK]

1. K & R n/t

[Israeli]

2. Thanks for the K & R.....

............

[oberliner]

3. Never heard a single person refer to Palestinians as "bloodthirsty Jew-hating animals"

I've heard people refer to Israelis as "bloodthirsty racist animals" though.

To find examples, Google "bloodthirsty Zionists"

About half a million hits.

[Israeli]

4. I have oberliner......

.......and not on the internet and not reading Google ....not with my eyes but via my ears .

[oberliner]

5. Good point

I guess it depends on where one lives.

As someone who has lived his entire life in the US (and mostly among liberals and moderates), I have encountered much more of the "bloodthirsty Zionist" phrase (with my own eyes and ears) than than "bloodthirsty Palestinian" one (which is a phrase I do not believe I have ever actually heard in my life).

At Oberlin, where I went to college, you almost never hear the word Zionist without the adjective bloodthirsty. And Palestinians are generally described as the most noble and courageous people in the world.

[King_David]

6. LOL

[Israeli]

11. I guess it does oberliner.....

.....as someone who has lived her entire life in Israel ....(and mostly among liberals and moderates)......I have encountered much more of the "bloodthirsty Palestinian" one .

Which is why I bolded and underlined this part ....

It's time to stand up and answer the know-it-all social media zealots who, from the comfort and insulation of their armchairs in North American suburbs, post incessantly about how all Palestinians — people whom they've never ever met nor spoken with — are fanatic,......

Kind of think that was Bradley Burston's point ....dont you ??

[oberliner]

12. The bolded part appears to be referring to Americans, not Israelis

Maybe I am not reading it correctly, but it seems like Burston is saying that Americans hold these views about Palestinians.

I am asserting that they don't.

As far as what views are held by Israelis, I will take your word for that.

[Israeli]

13. Well oberliner........

......unlike you and I Bradley Burston knows both worlds ......

ref : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Burston

Burston was born and raised in Los Angeles and was a member of the Labor Zionist youth movement Habonim. He graduated from University of California, Berkeley. In 1976, Burston immigrated to Israel and helped re-establish Kibbutz Gezer. He served as a combat medic in the Israel Defense Forces.[2] He studied medicine in Beersheba for two years before becoming a journalist.[3] He is married and has two children. He is a resident of Nataf.[4]

So forgive me ....you can " assert " all you like .......I'm not buying it .

Plus I have been reading shira's posts for eons now and also many of the posters on here that pass themselves of as moderates and liberals .......classic as to what Burston is referring to .

[oberliner]

14. OK

If you are going to accuse me of lying, then I guess there isn't really a point in engaging in conversation.

[Israeli]

15. * Ouch *

I wasnt accusing you of lying ........I'm a Sabra oberliner .....what you get from us is straight talking ....none of that refined Western double talk that you are all so fond of

But hey ....end the conversation ....I'm used to it by now

[oberliner]

16. You wrote "I'm not buying it"

That appeared to be saying that you thought I was lying.

Look, I am not questioning your experiences, I would appreciate it if you would provide me the same courtesy.

I am telling you, truthfully, about my experiences in the US and what I have heard with relation to American perceptions of Israelis and Palestinians.

Certainly other people, I am sure, have had other experiences. America is a big country with a lot of people.

I can only report on my own personal experiences, and I am attempting to do so as forthrightly as I can.

At Oberlin, where I went to college, the prevailing sentiment was very negative towards Zionists and very positive towards Palestinians.

I have encountered similar perceptions throughout my life among liberals and progressives that I have encountered.

[Israeli]

18. * sigh *

Language barrier oberliner ..................I dont think you are lying .

I also dont think Bradley Burston is lying .......and that he makes a very good point with this :

It's time, as well, to call out "Pro-Israel" voices who "defend" Israel by demonizing and dehumanizing Palestinians as a people, as a society, as a whole and as individuals. It's time we called racism-as-Zionism what it is: Disgusting.

It's time to stand up and answer the know-it-all social media zealots who, from the comfort and insulation of their armchairs in North American suburbs, post incessantly about how all Palestinians — people whom they've never ever met nor spoken with — are fanatic, base, primitive, bloodthirsty Jew-hating animals, for whom Jew-murder is the be-all and end-all of their lives, and — incidentally — are also not a real people, so deserve no rights beyond the right to be expelled.

[shira]

19. The problem is that Burston's target attacked Pal'n leadership, not all Palestinians.

You'll note that not once did Burston ever respond to Isi Liebler's criticism of Hamas or the PA. And let's face it, many of Israel's harshest critics avoid ever criticizing Hamas or the PA. It's not PC...

So Burston created his own strawman against Liebler and attacked that strawman. Yay for him....

[Israeli]

20. Yup ........." Yay for him "........ shira .....

He described you and your followers to a T .....

It's time, as well, to call out "Pro-Israel" voices who "defend" Israel by demonizing and dehumanizing Palestinians as a people, as a society, as a whole and as individuals. It's time we called racism-as-Zionism what it is: Disgusting.

It's time to stand up and answer the know-it-all social media zealots who, from the comfort and insulation of their armchairs in North American suburbs, post incessantly about how all Palestinians — people whom they've never ever met nor spoken with — are fanatic, ....

[shira]

21. Criticizing Hamas & the PA does not equate to condemning all Palestinians.

Consider repeating that to yourself 100 times...

Palestinians happen to be the the very 1st victims of Hamas & the PA. Gays, women, christians, child militants, human shields, no freedom of speech, press or assembly, it's a police state, etc.

It's funny you think criticizing Hamas and the PA is racist. That's like claiming all criticism of Israel is antisemitic. Oh the irony...

[Israeli]

23. " Oh the irony..... "

You still claim to be a Meretz supporter shira ?

Would vote for us if you could ........

quote : " Consider repeating that to yourself 100 times... " ....try this ...

I give you the founder of Meretz shira .......Shulamit Aloni ......

[shira]

24. Why the lies? I told you I wouldn't vote Meretz anymore...

Fortunately they're Zionists, but these days I don't have the time, energy, or motivation to fight fellow Zionists when I'm too busy with Jew hating anti-Zionists & BDS'ers who lump all Zionists (from Kahane to Aloni) together. Because....Jews. Check my record out. I don't have time to spar with Zionists from any stripe, even if I disagree vehemently with some of their positions. It's not worth it. The enemy are the anti-Zionists who want all of us Zionists dead.

The point is that while I agree with Burstyn in that Palestinians as a whole aren't bloodthirsty monsters, I think it would be best if he could admit Liebler is correct about their leadership, because Hamas and the PA are without a doubt bloodthirsty Jew hating animals.

[Israeli]

25. Reality wake up call shira ......

.......you dont get to vote for Meretz or for any of our political parties ...Baruch Hashem .

[shira]

26. Great talk. n/t

[Israeli]

29. You want to talk more shira ????

Lets talk about Rabin's assassination .......I've read what you have to say about it ....completely disagree with you ....would you like to talk about that ?

Here is your chance .....a real live Israeli Leftist post zionist is willing to talk to an American Right wing racist ....which you are shira .....deny it as much as you like .

So what would you like us to talk about ??????

Maybe you think we have something in common ????.....................

[shira]

30. Love the personal attack. This should be good. So what about Rabin's assassination.....

....do you disagree with me about? What did I write that's disturbing you so much?

While we're having this lovely discussion, I'd also like your opinion on Hamas' human shields in Gaza. All IDF people, including those I talk to, say without question Hamas uses human shields and is trying to get Gazans killed for PR purposes. What do you say?

[Israeli]

31. Its not personal shira ....

...........you are a prime example of what Bradley Burston was referring to .

As to Rabin's assassination..........I disagree with every word you have ever written on here with regard to his murder .

[shira]

32. Sure seems that way with the rightwing racist accusation. As to Rabin...

Last edited Thu Sep 8, 2016, 10:03 AM - Edit history (1)

.I disagree with every word you have ever written on here with regard to his murder

So what do you remember me writing about the murder that you disagree with so much? On edit: Do you think if he lived, he would've become post-zionist? Because I don't think of him that way at all. I see him as a Zionist all the way.

And Hamas trying to get Gazans killed, agree or disagree?

[Israeli]

27. Now you have ....

.......post # 24 ........

quote shira : " because Hamas and the PA are without a doubt bloodthirsty Jew hating animals. "

[shira]

33. Wow, you think blasting Hamas and PA leaders as bloodthirsty is racist?

Last edited Thu Sep 8, 2016, 05:10 PM - Edit history (3)

I find that fascinating.

You must equate all Palestinians to their brutal oppressors in Hamas and the PA who not only terrorize Jews but also Palestinians. Personally, I find it offensive to equate Palestinians with Hamas & the PA.

I'm wondering how this works. If I call Nazis, KKK'ers, skinheads & white supremacists Jew hating bloodthirsty vile animals (and that's an insult to animals) then that's fine.....but if I call Hamas and the PA that, then that's racist. How does that work? What am I missing here?

[Little Tich]

7. Am I a 'Disgusting Racist' for Calling Palestinians Evil When They Sanctify Death and Jew Hatred?

Source: Haaretz, by Isi Leibler


Bradley Burston's smear tactics were an attempt to deflect from the reality that I described: the culture of death that saturates Palestinian life today.

In a column provocatively titled “Racism-as-Zionism. Don't Call It 'pro-Israel.' Call It What It Is: Disgusting,” Haaretz senior editor Bradley Burston accuses me of being a revolting racist.

Burston bases his vulgar claim on a quote from a paragraph in my recent op-ed in which I stated, “There is irrefutable evidence of the barbaric and genocidal nature of Palestinian society. Indeed, the reality is that despite maintaining a ‘moderate’ stance to the outside world, internally the Palestinians and ISIS are birds of a feather — although the Palestinians are probably more corrupt.”
I also pointed out that while Arab hostility to Jews prevailed even during the period of the British Mandate, it was not comparable to the culture of death and evil which saturates dominant aspects of Palestinian life today.

Let us review the bare facts:

The Palestinian leaders have stated explicitly that their state would be Judenrein and that Jews would never be permitted to live in their ancestral home, even if they were willing to accept Palestinian jurisdiction Those deemed to have sold land to a Jew are brutally executed. Surely such behavior must be considered racist.

Read more: http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.740152

Note: Haaretz Premium article - Google title for access.

[shira]

9. Good response by Liebler. Burston deflects from criticizing Pal'n leadership. n/t

[Little Tich]

8. After reading both the OP by Bradley Burston and the first one by Isi Leibler,

my conclusion is that Burston is right, and that Leibler is a racist.

Promoting negative ethnic stereotypes is almost always racism, and Leibler seems to have only racist goals with promoting negative stereotypes about Palestinians. No excuse for him.

Leibler is a racist.

[shira]

10. If Liebler is racist in your view, there's no question Mondoweiss is too...

Last edited Mon Sep 5, 2016, 12:41 PM - Edit history (4)

...with their negative stereotypes of Jews - which include lies & slander - making what they do far worse than Liebler.

And then of course there's Gideon Levy. So according to your view on what constitutes racism, some of your best sources are racist.

Where am I wrong?

[Little Tich]

17. We have different views on what constitutes racism.

For me, racism is about targeting a person or a group due to their ethnicity. Merely criticizing an ideology or a country isn't racism IMHO. I don't think that either Mondoweiss or Levy are racists, but I do think that Leibler is very obviously a racist.

Do you think that Leibler is a racist?

[shira]

22. Mondoweiss & Gideon Levy attack Jews, not merely an ideology or country.

Last edited Wed Sep 7, 2016, 11:13 AM - Edit history (1)

Here's Gideon Levy arguing Jews believing they're superior, chosen, and better than everyone else. This is straight out David Duke white supremacist gutter trash...
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/jewish-people-are-just-that-people-and-far-from-chosen-1.388870

Another from Gideon Levy...

At the end of a terrible day, it is this that leads to the burning of families whom God did not choose. No principle in Israeli society is more destructive, or more dangerous, than this principle. Nor, unfortunately, more common. If you were to examine closely what is concealed beneath the skin of most Israelis, you would find: the chosen people. When that is a fundamental principle, the next torching is only a matter of time.

As for Mondoweiss, we went over this already...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/05/04/mondoweiss-is-a-hate-site/?utm_term=.55db402d1cba

There's an entire thread on it. You need to hold racists of all stripes to the same standards and it's evident you don't do that WRT racism vs. Jews compared to racism vs. Palestinians or anyone else.

========

As to Liebler, I need more evidence he's a racist. The article Bradley Burstyn responded to was an obvious critique of Palestinian leadership, not the entire people.

[shira]

34. If racism is about targeting a person or group due to their ethnicity, I want you....

....to acknowledge Gideon Levy and Phil Weiss are racist given the info. you've seen on them.

No more hiding. Be honest & use the same standard....