Netanyahu slams racism, 'price tag' attacks

[oberliner]

JERUSALEM (AFP) -- Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Sunday condemned acts of racism against Palestinians after an outcry over an amusement park which segregated Jewish and Arab children.

And he also pledged to bring to justice Israeli extremists behind the wave of so-called "price tag" hate crimes against Palestinians.

"I would like to strongly condemn recent phenomena of racism against Israeli Arabs and hooliganism against Palestinians, which were without any provocation or justification whatsoever," Netanyahu said at the start of the weekly cabinet meeting.

"We reject with disgust these phenomena and we shall use the law and enforcement means at our disposal to stop them," he said in remarks carried on Israeli radio.

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=601415

[PDJane]

1. When I see change, I'll believe it.

[oberliner]

4. Have you been to Israel lately?

Sadly, the change seems to be going in the wrong direction.

[delrem]

2. Netanyahu is right now authorizing new settlements in E. Jerusalem.

[oberliner]

3. Non-sequitor?

What point are you making with that comment?

[delrem]

5. one that went right over your head.

[oberliner]

6. Thanks for the clarifcation

Remember, there are only maybe about a dozen people reading these comments. Why not stay civil with those who take the time to respond?

[delrem]

9. I'm fairly civil. But damned if I'll be obsequious.

I'll clarify. "Netanyahu expands settlements in E. Jerusalem." You see no connection between that and his fancy words about being against settler culture, "pricetag attacks" etc.

To be sure, I didn't explain - because my experience is that you don't really want to hear an explanation. I think you don't see a connection - one that ought to stare you in the face - because you're caught in contradiction between what you actually support and those consequences that you're willing to admit to. There's cognitive dissonance, so on the one hand you're a hard-core right wing zionist, but on the other hand you profess that Arab Israelis are in all respects equal to Jewish citizens. Which is, of course, false. Not just false: it's a damnable lie.

Cognitive dissonance - so you ignore what you need to ignore to maintain your equilibrium. So you'll ignore this (from earlier postings):

A short documentary video
http://972mag.com/watch-my-neighbourhood-the-human-impact-of-settlements-in-sheikh-jarrah/71657/

Some background:
http://972mag.com/sheikh%20jarrah/
"History of the neighborhood"

In other words, you'll ignore actual historical events describing the ongoing Nakba in E. Jerusalem, the *violence* of it as it uproots families, denies them quarter, giving it all to people of a (in law) dominant ethnic persuasion. This is *worse* violence against Palestinians than price-tag attacks. Worse because the dynamic of it sets the stage for things like price-tag attacks, and the whole damn war.

But IMO you'll never "get it".

[oberliner]

11. 972mag

I introduced you to that website, remember?

If anyone gets it, it's me.

[delrem]

12. And that's your case of cognitive dissonance in a nutshell.

You don't give a damn what I posted, you don't give a damn about the evicted Palestinians in E. Jerusalem, or about *anything* except evading the issue.

So like I already said, and that you didn't like: WOOOOOOOOSH!!

[oberliner]

13. There is no cognitive dissonance

Not only do a "give a damn" about what you posted, but I also have seen much of it long before you even joined this site. I have carefully reviewed the same information that you have. We just come to some different conclusions. One conclusion that I have reached is that there needs to be a two-state solution along the lines of the Geneva Accord whereby a Palestinian state is created. This is an end result that I would hope we both could work towards together.

But with respect to your post, let's try to be specific - you referenced a 300 unit housing project in Ramot, a neighborhood in East Jerusalem that under most peace proposals, will end up being part of Israel. No one will be evicted as a result of the building of these houses. And no one was evicted after 1967 as this was part of a demilitarized zone between Jordan and Israel during the war.

I think you have a tendency to think in generalities and wish to evade dealing with the specifics of individual situations. When I try to engage in such discussions you resort to name-calling (i.e. "loser&quot and sound effects.

[delrem]

14. No. You *did not* deal with the 972 links that I posted. You panned the messenger.

It doesn't help to just make things up!
So you *did not* deal with the specifics of that situation. And you are not dealing with the cause of your cognitive dissonance either here, in this sub-thread, or in any discussion that I have with you. It's all denial, and even the outright lie that Arab Israelis are equal to Jewish Israelis under Israeli law.

[oberliner]

15. I didn't pan the messenger

I just said that I introduced you to the website - and thus am quite familiar with what is posted there. What exactly was made up? I do not get what you are referring to.

The 972mag stuff has nothing to do with your post in which you linked the OP to the housing units in Ramot. That is what you brought up in response to the article. Now you have decided to veer off in another direction, which is your right, but my comment was in response to your initial one.

And if you want to speak more broadly, a comprehensive two-state settlement is the best step towards a solution to all the inequities identified in 972mag and elsewhere.

[delrem]

17. I didn't link the OP to any particular "housing units" recently stolen or soon to be stolen.

That kind of pickiness (and fallaciousness) is also part of your cognitive dissonance. You *refuse* to deal with the links I actually did provide, as examples, because they contradict the picture that you represent to yourself.

And no, I don't think a few trite memes about "two state solution" is worth the time it takes to type them, when we're talking about actual and ongoing facts on the ground pushed by the current gov't of Israel under Netanyahu. Yes, you have this bullshit meme that gives you a feel-good sensation, but the guy in charge, the guy that the OP is trying to characterize as a liberal, non-racist, pacifist good guy, is in fact not such a thing, nor has he any connection to the meme you're trying to sell.

[oberliner]

22. "2. Netanyahu is right now authorizing new settlements in E. Jerusalem."

Which new settlements in E. Jerusalem did you mean?

[delrem]

28. All of them, and not isolated with what's going on all over the West Bank, and Gaza.

Obviously I didn't mean something you cherry picked for debating purposes. Why would you think I did?

[oberliner]

29. Gaza?

All the settlements were withdrawn from Gaza years ago.

It is completely Jew-free.

[delrem]

30. Israel is continuing to bulldoze larger swaths of "no mans land" on the Gaza side,

It continues to refuse to allow Gazan development of the gas fields, and it continues to enforce extreme limits on Gazan fishing.

It isn't pretty to watch hasbarists wash their hands of Gaza.

[pelsar]

31. dont like the concept of 'cause and effect" nor history

the swaths of no mans land is a direct result of the govt of gaza attempts to murder israelis.

of course one has to first to admit a few things and know the history (so many people here really hate history)

1) the gazas govt is responsable for it actions.
2) when the hamas govt attempt to murder israelis across the border this is a bad thing
3) israel in fact does have the right to prevent such murder attempts

of course if one does not agree with those three points, than israel obviously can be defined as the "evil" society that people love/need to believe.

however if the three obvious points are agreed to, then its clear why the no mans land that at first didnt exist and gets enlarged (history) is because the ieds, the snipers, the tunnels, the mortars (and their spotters) prefer to be as close as possible to the israelis across the border for more exact attacks.

of course if you have no real problem with the those attacks than of course you don't like the "no mans land"...
or if your one of those that believe land ownership is more important than human lives, than again you would complain about the no mans land or

the third option is that the Palestenians of gaza are some kind of "less then human" and can't be held responsable for what they do, therefore they should be allowed to try to kill israelis without hindrance

any other realistic options, that are not based on the "israel is evil" mentality that pervades the 'believers" base belief and infects every view point?



nows your chance to respond with one of your choice responses: I haven't been called a "loser" yet like the others here, so that would be new one

[delrem]

32. You give me a headache, pelsar.

I think shira is better at this than you.
Just sayin'.

[pelsar]

33. of course....I do.

writing comments that are based on singular events while ignoring history and the surrounding environment is really good for the emotional driven crowd...those that need a cause to get all excited about, where they can join the "underdog" and jump up and down and cheer.

and it may give some "headaches" as they dont really understand how everyone cannot join them....its seems to clear to them, so "simple."
_____

i dont really expect you to reply, its not your strong point, but i dont believe your simplistic (that word again), viewpoint should be publicized without a better explanation of the environment. There are those that actually want to understand the environment and dont believe in Israels "original sin"

[delrem]

34. OK - I admit. You're more "aetherial" than shira

eta: wtf are you talking about "original sin". I, being Roman Catholic baptized, confirmed, and repented, know all about shit-stirring bastards who go all in with folklore about "original sin". I was weaned on it.

As an adult, I've never believed anything said about "original sin" because I've never believed it existed. As a child, I never knew what the dumb-fuck adults were talking about, anyway. I'm an empiricist at heart, and notions like "original sin" stink from those standards.

[pelsar]

35. heres an exercise for you....

this is just for fun, to make it obvious that you really dont have any answers, but prefer to demonize.
Now i realize that for the "israel is bad" crowd this will make no sense, since they do not like to "get their hands dirty" with reality, but its important to bring it out and show it

you dont like the "no mans land" that israel created and expanded in time as the attacks continued from gaza:


what should israel, the country do tomorrow or even in two days from now to either prevent, defend its border communities and soldiers from the various attacks from gaza that occurred this week, if anything (i was told once that its immoral for israel to defend itself, perhaps you agree with that)

( a few mortar rounds, a few bullet rounds passing by the patrol, a possible IED attempt, which btw were far more frequent and accurate before the "no mans land).
_____

i 'm just kidding...we all know you can't/wont answer...reality sucks

[delrem]

36. I would think Israel should feel secure.

I don't understand assholes who use an excuse that "Israel is insecure" to deny Gaza the right to it's own dominion. While punishing Gaza in all sorts of other ways, including, in the most sadomasochistic way, shooting at will into these "no mans lands". And denying Gaza an economy.

I think there's a certain point where the asymmetry gets warped.

[pelsar]

37. "feel" secure?...huh? i didnt ask about feelings

its an exercise.....should israel do anything to protect is border communities and soldiers on the border from those bullets and mortars?, and if so what?


this is not a philosophical question, this is about real people getting shot at...if you believe that israel shouldnt do anything due to israeli politics that just write it out

if you believe they should, that write out a few examples of what they should do differently. this excercise is about today and tomorrow not next year....

"feel secure? (no the soldiers no people on the border do not "feel secure&quot ...shheesh

[delrem]

38. Yes, I understand that you're *very* belligerent, pelsar.

You're practically hysterical about the dangers to the IDF that the subjugation of the Palestinians incurs.

And OK, it's definite that "aetherial" wasn't the right word to use...

[pelsar]

39. did i miss something?

the exercise wasn't about my writing style...you complained about the expanding no mans land, which is a direct result of murder attempts on israelis, hence i asked if you have an alternative solution...if any.


your posts tend to be filled with emotional descriptions "feelings" "hysterical"..i was just asking for a realistic solution to an immediate problem, nothing to do with any emotional description.

you dont have to have one, i know you really cant (or believe) that the IDF/israel should do anything really to protect its citizens, that results in a Palestinian being hurt, until your version of "justice" has occurred.

why cant you just write it out?...its obvious isn't it? I know it, you know it, all progressives know it, (ok granted its not PC to declare that Israel cant "defend themselves)...still you can be the first to declare it in writing and you'll get many messges on your bravery..

try it.... (you can always make a new internet identity)

[Scootaloo]

7. Well, Oberliner...

When you subsume the interests of one caste of people in favor of the interests of another caste of people - in this case, stripping land from Arabs because they're Arabs, to make way for Jews because they are Jews - that is bigotry. Racism. This is something that Netanyahu not only supports, but writes into core policy.

Further it is his support for the "settler movement" that empowers, protects, and enables the "price tag" sorts. Because their racist asses are more than happy to come in, partake of racist policy, and work to drive out the hated caste. So long as the state encourages and rewards this ementality and these actions, they will not only continue, but they will grow.

That is, the very things that Netanyahu is "slamming" are products of policies Netanyahu - and every Israeli leader before him - has signed on to, which amounts to, basically, Arabs are worth less than Jews.

[oberliner]

8. Is that what you think is happening in East Jerusalem?

Stripping land from Arabs because they're Arabs?

Can you tell me which Arabs are being stripped of their land via this particular housing project?

Did you know that both the Clinton Parameters and Geneva Initiative propose that Ramot remain under Israeli sovereignty? (Ramot is where these housing units are being built)

[Scootaloo]

16. As if it were just Ramot?

The settlements - every single one of them - are illegal. One and all, they represent theft of territory from Palestinians by Israel. This sort of thing is covered in the Geneva Conventions which, for those of you playing the home game, are legally-binding international laws that Israel has agreed to abide by (in principle, at least...); neither the Clinton Parameters nor the Geneva Initiative are anything of the sort.

Now, beyond that, there's still my point - the settlement project as a whole - as in, in its entirety, whether it's an old-timey squatter hovel like Ramot or a wildcatting pack of hillbillies in the Jordan Valley, is based on the notion that Arabs are worth less than Jews. That since Arabs are lesser people, subhuman, not worth consideration, then they are clearly undeserving of their territory, and so the state of Israel is beholden to "liberate" that territory for use by Jews. It is utterly racist all the way to its conceptual core.

Since the Allon Plan in 1967, every Israeli government has agreed with this, and expanded on it and reinforced it. Netanyahu is no different and in fact is one of the bigger faces with regard to pushing settlements.

The enactment of racist policy of course attracts racists, as they are being told, up-front, that they now have a shield - an aegis if you will - for them to hide behind. The state endorses and supports and helps them, even to the point of sending its military to protect them as they attack the locals in an attempt to drive them away from their own land. Again, this is official Israeli policy. From this environment we get the "Price tag" sorts, who are not only virulent hatred of Arabs, but also believe that the government is renigging on its promise to protect, defend, and enable their racism at all costs.

So for Netanyahu to come up and shake his finger at a situation of racist attacks that he very actively helped create, via racist policy he very actively endorsed and signed into law, makes him a hypocrite.

[azurnoir]

18. more on what is happening in EJ

Israel is preparing to build more than 1,000 new settler homes in east Jerusalem as the United States strives to revive dormant Israeli-Palestinian peace talks, according to an non-governmental organisation.

Danny Seidemann, director of Jerusalem settlement watchdog Terrestrial Jerusalem, said on Wednesday that contracts for 300 homes in the northeastern settlement of Ramot were signed and another 797 plots were to be offered for sale in the southern Jerusalem settlement of Gilo, near the city of Jerusalem.

Both are in mainly-Arab areas of the holy city.

Seidemann said that the plans were approved last year before Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu quietly ordered a settlement freeze, but the latest steps in their implementation were leaked to media by the office of Uri Ariel, the Housing and Construction Minister.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2013/05/2013529224737306554.html

[delrem]

19. yet oberliner can't understand why I use the term "cognitive dissonance". nt

[delrem]

20. definitive

[oberliner]

23. That's where the new housing units are being built

That was what was recently approved by Netanyahu.

At least you seem to be acknowledging the realities of that particular situation.

[delrem]

10. this

[oberliner]

24. Profound post

It must be comforting to have your point of view validated here (and on your other favorite sites).

[delrem]

27. ooooo! with a "and on your other favorite sites" no less!

Way to go, oberliner.

[pelsar]

21. let me help.....

within certain points of view, Israel is guilty of an "original sin" this sin can be considered its statehood in 48 or its 67 win, or it can be the settlements, it can be military occupation, it can be apartheid...each has their own particular view point (and each insists that their view is the "correct one for "real and universal justice- they all seem to miss the irony of their universal justice claim).

However that "original sin" is tied to everything Israel does, it doesn't matter if its good or bad, this original sin taints everything. For instance, if one recalls pregaza pullout the progressive were claiming that its up to israel to "do something big" make the first move, etc. So when israel did, and actually pull out of gaza, it of course was still not good enough...original sin making that move "dirty' not good enough.

Israel soldiers can risk their lives to save syrian lives by bringing them into israel (or Palestenians), but it doesnt really mean there is some good in the IDF, those kids are still tainted by the settlements. If a nightclub is closed by public boycott for not letting in ethiopians, it doesnt mean that the populace is showing its lack of patience for discrimination, it means that the discrimination that obviously exists in israel is because of its "orginial sin."

everything that happens in israel to the "original sin' crowd relates to their particular version of israels original sin, in their minds hence the connection, that you dont get.

be they jihadnists, rightists or progressives, they all have their own version of the original sin, keep that in mind and you'll understand their connection.
____

now bear in mind, to "fix" this original sin, one requires "justice" and that too is a vague, flexible, cultural based concept that all will claim that only they have the 'universal version." So even if there is a peace agreement and borders fixed, it does not mean that justice will be served, hence the "original sin" crowd will simply continue. A peace agreement has nothing to do with justice (keep that in mind as well and you'll understand them better)

____
and its tough to get them to admit it..hence the run around you've been receiving. It comes out after much discussion but you have to get past the emotional/agenda driven posts, past the "universal justice" mantra and then you might get to the "tainting of a whole liberal society" due to politics.

and it will further clarify why hamas version of govt doesnt bother them as much as israels. hamas and friends don't have the taint of that "original sin"....it will be tough to get it out of them, but it explains a lot.

[oberliner]

25. The US is guilty of original sin as well

But somehow, people are able to see past that and engage in discourse.

[pelsar]

26. all countries/societies have that "original sin" somewhere in their foundation

be it the native indians of america, manifest destiny of america, etc

but their whole societies are not "tainted" so that everything done by that society no matter how good is related back to and connected to that "original sin." in order to confirm the societies evilness.

its gives a clearer picture why stories like israel sending teams to Haiti to save lives becomes "organ stealing" schemes, etc.

why discrimination within Israel, is related to the occupation
why a housing shortage relates to the occupation
why a water shortage becomes the reason israel invades lebanon

the list is endless as you well know.....in the end, if you dig deep enough, its the original sin that has "tainted the soul of jewish/zionist israelis that explains the endless list of israeli sins....imagined or not.