Why Abbas thinks Jewish state is a ‘delusional myth’

[Mosby]

A major obstacle blocking progress toward an agreement between Israel and the Palestinian Authority is Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu’s demand and PA President Mahmoud Abbas’s refusal to recognize Israel as a Jewish state. The Jerusalem Post reported this week that US Secretary of State John Kerry thinks Israel’s demand is a mistake. The question is: Why are both sides so concerned about that which is already accepted internationally? As early as 1917, the Balfour Declaration supported the establishment of “a national home for the Jewish people.”

In 1922, the League of Nations confirmed the British Mandate to establish “a Jewish national home,” and UN resolution 181 in 1947 recommended the establishment of “a Jewish state.” Since Israel’s founding followed directly upon this international process anticipating a Jewish state, why, so many years later, does Israel demand and the PA refuse to restate the obvious? A recent declaration by Abbas sheds light on why PA recognition is essential for authentic peace and why the PA president refuses to grant it. In a speech in Morocco, Abbas defined Jewish history in Jerusalem as a “delusional myth” and claimed that Israel is trying to invent a Jewish history “by brute force.” (Official PA TV, January 17, 2014).

Abbas has a long tradition of denying Jewish history. In another talk he described Jewish history in Jerusalem as “illusions and legends” and referred to the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem as the “alleged Temple,” a term the PA uses to deny that it ever existed. (Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, August 22, 2012).

Abbas’s refusal to recognize the Jewish state is not merely his personal vendetta, but, reflects this fundamental element of PA policy to deny Jewish history – especially in Jerusalem.

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-Ed-Contributors/Why-Abbas-thinks-Jewish-state-is-a-delusional-myth-345549

[DetlefK]

1. Even though modern Judaism began in the babylonian exile...

It's pretty much an established historic fact that Jerusalem was the capital of an ancient jewish kingdom.

[Loudly]

2. Abbas is symptomatic of the Palestinian mindset.

Refusal to accept facts and let time heal the wounds.

Refusal to identify Islam as the true thief of their heritage.

[Jefferson23]

3. His refusal to identify Islam as the true thief of his heritage?

Explain, please.

[Loudly]

17. The relevant article in Wikipedia is entitled "Palestinian People."

"Genetic analysis suggests that a majority of the Muslims of Palestine, inclusive of Arab citizens of Israel, are descendants of Christians, Jews and other earlier inhabitants of the southern Levant whose core may reach back to prehistoric times. A study of high-resolution haplotypes demonstrated that a substantial portion of Y chromosomes of Israeli Jews (70%) and of Palestinian Muslim Arabs (82%) belonged to the same chromosome pool. Since the time of the Muslim conquests in the 7th century, religious conversions have resulted in Palestinians being predominantly Sunni Muslim by religious affiliation, though there is a significant Palestinian Christian minority of various Christian denominations, as well as Druze and a small Samaritan community."

Conquered and absorbed into the surrounding Arab culture.

And now carrying the water for Islam as mere pawns in its ancient Abrahamic rivalry with Judaism.

[Jefferson23]

18. Incredible..I think I have posted that word at least 50 times today.

So explain please your theft comment..in context.

[Loudly]

25. Islam seeks to replace everything with itself.

As a result, Palestinians long ago lost what it meant to be Palestinian.

Leaving them with little more than an identity as displaced Muslims with an Old Testament grudge against Jews.

Making them largely indistinguishable from other Arabs in the region, except for whatever unique value they have to the Sunni establishment to foment hatred.

[Jefferson23]

26. Complete bullshit, but it is a big day for that in I/P..today. n/t

[Scootaloo]

28. Well, at least this one's honest about what's in his head, no?

Compare to the doofuses trying so hard to pretend Itamar Marcus is a paragon of liberalism.

One of them was a regular participant in an anti-Arab hate site and right-wing blatherchamber, run by multiple-ban DU'er DrDon / jessie04, before that shithead stopped paying the bill.

The other posts on 972mag.com about how Obama is no friend to Israel and has a cadre of "secret muslim advisors from Chicago."

Loudly says what's on his mind, such as it is. I like the cut of his jib. Let's keep him.

[Jefferson23]

29. That is true..can't argue otherwise. n/t

[Jefferson23]

4. OP's author is ITAMAR MARCUS.

Discredited by Israeli judge. He and his colleagues, Daniel Pipes, and a host of other racists.

Obsession, the film was his endeavor.

http://www.obsessionthemovie.com/about_interviews_Marcus.php

[shira]

13. Oh no! The Devil himself! n/t

[Jefferson23]

14. Your friend, I know. But I don't call people things like the devil..racist is much more precise

label for him.

[shira]

15. What evidence do u have that he's racist? What major media outlet pronounced him so?

Using your argument, unless a real media outlet reports on Marcus' racism then it didn't happen.

What kind of dirt do u have on him?

[Jefferson23]

16. Media outlet does not need to pronounce it..all his affiliations with Obsession, the film.

and his bio is repugnant, as if you did not know.

[shira]

19. Again, where's the evidence? Be specific. n/t

[Jefferson23]

20. You already have it..must be hard for you to recognize it..I get that. n/t

[shira]

21. So you have nothing, great. I have photo evidence, you have assertions.

Nice talk.

[Jefferson23]

22. I will take it that you find the Obsession film to be fair and balanced then.

Taking a bogus claim to court in Israel only to defame an entire people and you find him
not to be a racist.. ok.

I get you, I do.

[shira]

23. Let's start with Obsession. What did he say that's racist? He didn't make the movie. n/t

[Jefferson23]

24. Priceless. n/t

[Scootaloo]

5. Hey Mosby, didn't you say, just yesterday...

That you prefer to not support RW nuts?



Or... "suppert," rather.

But here you are, providing us with...



Itamar Marcus?

[Mosby]

7. If Marcus is good enough for Hillary Clinton

Then he works for me.

Senator Hillary Clinton and PMW in joint press conference introducing report on Palestinian schoolbooks

Senator Hillary Clinton:
Good morning everyone, and thank you very much for being here.

It is my privilege once again to join Palestinian Media Watch for this press conference, and for the latest report that they have compiled about the Palestinian textbooks. Director Itamar Marcus, who has been a steadfast leader, has helped to deliver this message which we repeat again today - we must stop the propaganda to which Palestinian children are being exposed. That must be a priority for all people who care about children, who care about the kind of peace, stability, safety and security that Israel deserves to be guaranteed. And it should be a priority for everyone who cares about the future of the Palestinian people. I’m also pleased that with us today is Associate Director Barbara Crook, with whom I have also met in the past to discuss these issues.

http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=92&doc_id=101

Comparing him to Mackey is just stupid.

[azurnoir]

8. that was in 2007 prior to his movie Obsession being used to smear Barack Obama

during the 2008 presidential campaign

[Mosby]

9. He was interviewed for the movie, so were a lot of other people

He is not responsible for the content.

I have not seen it but I don't see Marcus's name anywhere in the credits:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsession:_Radical_Islam%27s_War_Against_the_West

So when you say "his movie", that seems dishonest.

[Jefferson23]

10. Obsession: Radical Islam's War Against the West

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsession:_Radical_Islam%27s_War_Against_the_West

[azurnoir]

11. feel quite free to defend Marcus I won't complain

it speaks volumes

[Jefferson23]

12. yea,that will take you far. It's good to know what works for you. n/t

[azurnoir]

6. Kerry: ‘Jewish state’ demand ‘a mistake’

Speaking to the House Committee on Foreign Affairs, Kerry put the kibosh on the demand, which Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has made central to peace negotiations with the Palestinians.

“I think it’s a mistake for some people to be, you know, raising it again and again as the critical decider of their attitude towards the possibility of a state and peace, and we’ve obviously made that clear,” Kerry said.

Kerry noted that the “Jewish state” issue was addressed by UN Resolution 181 in 1947, which granted international recognition to the fledgling state of Israel. There are “more than 40 — 30 mentions of a ‘Jewish state’” in the resolution, Kerry said, and added that the late Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat “confirmed that he agreed it [Israel] would be a Jewish state” in 1988 and in 2004.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/kerry-jewish-state-demand-a-mistake/

[sabbat hunter]

27. I believe that

Israel should be recognized as the jewish homeland, but not as a Jewish state. It was on giving jews a homeland that Israel was founded upon, and prior to that under UK rule, Jews were allowed to migrate to the mandate.

To me it is more than just semantics when I say it should be called the Jewish homeland rather than the Jewish State. By calling it the Jewish homeland does not exclude non jews. Calling it the Jewish state does.

and yes, Abbas and other PA leaders have denied that the wailing wall and temple mount have any significance to Jews. We do not know where the first temple was exactly, but we do know from historical records, mainly from Alexander the Great and his successors, and the Roman Republic/Empire that a second temple did exist, and it was greatly enlarged and beautified by Herod the Great. (and in fact probably was not finished until long after he died, and did not stand too long before the Romans burned and destroyed it).

So by them denying a historical significance (as well as a religious one) to Jews is bad form on their part, to say the least.

We also know that the temple mount itself at times was used as a garbage dump, cleared and churches built, preparations for a potential third temple under Emperor Hadrian. Then later on under Muslim rule two mosques built on the Temple mount. We also know that under the Turks, Jews were allowed in to Jerusalem to pray at the wall.

So how the leadership of the PA denies all of that with a straight face, i do not know.

[Scootaloo]

30. Well...

So how the leadership of the PA denies all of that with a straight face, i do not know.

Maybe they manage to do it the same way that Israel's leadership managed to deny the Armenian genocide with a straight face until 2009, and continue to deny the genocide perpetrated against Roma and Sinti people alongside Jews under the Nazis, to say nothing of Israel's steadfast refusal to acknowledge the nakba, and active persecution against such recognition. Or the long refusal of Israel's leaders to even acknowledge the existence of a Palestinian people.

Maybe the Palestinian leadership is picking up straight-faced denialism techniques from the Israeli leadership?

[sabbat hunter]

31. I am guessing that

heavy medication must be involved.

[Scootaloo]

33. Ketamine could do it, i think

[Mosby]

32. fair enough. nt

[aranthus]

34. Fair enough.

But the Palestinians won't agree to that either. So the real question is whether Israel should stand on that position or make a deal without that agreement. But the Palestinian demand seems to be for Israel to accept right of return with no recognition of any Jewish right to be in Palestine.