How Israel stupefies so many brilliant Jews

[Jesus Malverde]

On the eve of Passover 1988, I was working at the Technion, Israel’s prestigious technological institute in Haifa, writing fundraising prose. It was a few months into the First Intifada, and Israel’s image had been taking a battering overseas like never before, with scenes being televised continually of heavily armed soldiers and tanks putting down a rebellion by teenagers with stones.

We workers in the administration building gathered for the traditional pre-Passover toast with the college president. In his remarks, he noted that many of us would be going abroad for the holiday, and that the issue of Israel’s high-profile behavior could well come up in our conversations with people who wanted to hear what Israelis had to say. His advice: “Speak in one voice.” All around me, people were nodding.

I found this pretty depressing. The president of a leading Israeli college sending the employees out into the world to be PR robots for the government and army. Did this happen in other countries, democratic countries? It was another example of the ultra-nationalism, conformist political thought and self-righteous paranoia that I didn’t like about the country – and it was setting the tone even at the top of one of its best colleges.

Since then, the Technion has come up in the world. Three of its professors have won Nobel Prizes for science, it’s going to share with Cornell a $2 billion campus being built in New York City, its international ranking has climbed and its fundraising has multiplied.

But in some ways, evidently, it hasn’t changed.

http://972mag.com/how-israel-stupefies-so-many-brilliant-jews/100418/

[Warpy]

1. From what I understand about the psychology

The Holocaust happened in Germany, one of the most tolerant and progressive countries in central Europe. Germany's Jews identified as Germans and many were secular, considering themselves Germans and nothing else.

The rather proves that having a charismatic madman take over can happen anywhere, not just tottering failed states. Jews are a pretty frequent target for xenophobic crazies and have been throughout history.

Israel remains the last refuge, the one place that won't be swept by antisemitism, a Jewish state for persecuted Jews to escape to.

Unfortunately, non persecuted Jews have flocked there since its birth and it's getting too crowded to work if there is another anti Jewish holocaust. However, the ideal remains strong in the backs of the minds of Jews who realize they always have to be vigilant and escape as soon as a charismatic lunatic starts his rise to power. Unlike in the late 1930s, there is a place to flee to that won't throw up immigration barriers to keep Jews out. That place is Israel.

So I fully understand the almost knee jerk support for anything Israel does. Perhaps when the wounds inflicted by the last century are less raw, there will be less support for the excesses of the IDF. For now, it's not going to happen.

[Enthusiast]

2. +1

[BillZBubb]

5. That's a pretty sad excuse for the crimes Israel in now committing.

It seems like people who have a cultural experience of being cruelly abused by a powerful state would strive to not behave that way, ever. The Israelis, who now have the power, abuse it without a bit of introspection.

As to pre-war Germany, if you read "Hitler's Willing Executioners", it is pretty well documented that anti-Semitism was obvious and deeply rooted before Hitler. The author mentions the idea of a "Jewish problem" being a widespread topic among Germans. I'm sure the Jews in Germany were aware of this. Hitler, unfortunately, was crazy enough to endorse mass murder as his "solution".

That said, the world has changed a lot since then. The United States, for instance, will never repeat its shameful act of denying refuge to persecuted Jews. Anti-Semitism in the US is limited to a small, extremist portion of the population and will remain so. The US isn't a Jewish homeland, but it would offer Jews in need a home.

[King_David]

12. Your last paragraph is nonsense

Unless your Nostradamus there's no way you could possibly predict what you have, and even he was not that great at it .

Antisemitism in the USA is no longer the domain of the extreme right but also now the extreme left. Thankfully the Democratic Party is still home to Jews but the left and right of the Democrats are firmly in the antisemitic camp and growing.

[grossproffit]

14. You're more forgiving than I am since I thought their entire post was nonsense.

[King_David]

15. LOL

Come to think of it Paragraph 1 is nonsense 2 is true 3 is nonsense.

[BillZBubb]

22. Your post is total bullshit. The left of the Democratic party isn't anti-Semitic.

Propagandists like you try to paint anyone who opposes anything Israel does as being "anti-Semitic". It is a false, libelous and frankly absurd claim. You should be ashamed.

[King_David]

23. The Democratic Party , my party is the party of the Jews

To the left of the Democratic Party is all the crazy anti Semitic anti Zionist people who wouldn't be allowed in the Democratic party... The same people that David Duke ,Rense, Greta Berlin and company make cause with when it comes to Israel and Jews.

Ashamed ? Of what ? I a proud supporter of the USA democratic party and agree 100% with their Zionist views on Israel and Jews ....

I am not the one who should be ashamed!

[Warpy]

26. Um, not quite

Those barriers would go back up in a heartbeat if the televangelist and wingnut preachers ever reverted to type, simply hating Jews instead of using them in the form of Israel to give Jebus a place to pop into before he kills off any Jew who isn't willing to convert to Christianity.

Don't kid yourself, seething antisemitism is alive and well in the Christian far right. They're vehemently pro Israel (for their own reasons) and just as vehemently anti Jew.

It's a distinction that has completely escaped the more rabidly pro-Israel but it's one that will jump up and bite them if they're not really careful about who they trust.

[King_David]

28. Agreed nt

[ellenrr]

19. there is truth in your post, but somethings are omitted...

Many, if not most, post-Holacaust Jews did not want to go to Israel.

Imagine a person whose family for generations lived in a schetl in Russia going to Palestine. It wasn't the first choice for many.
But, as you say, many countries would not let Jews in, or only a limited number.

But there was a fair amount of Zionist propagandizing to bring the Jews to Israel bec. they (the Zionists) wanted to build a state.

The other point - that historian Bertell Ollman makes well in this article: http://www.nyu.edu/projects/ollman/docs/resignation.php -
is that Jews thrive in the US, precisely bec. the US is a pluralistic society, rather than a one-religion society like Israel.

[Warpy]

24. Thanks.

I was trying to explain the seemingly knee jerk support of Israel no matter how utterly brutal they are toward their Palestinian neighbors. Yes, most Jews in the US love this country and have absolutely no desire to decamp to Israel.

However, the fact that they might need an escape some day is always in the backs of their heads, especially with the rise of hateful televangelism. The televangelists and their less successful ilk in wingnut churches all over the country are temporarily tolerant of Jews since Israel represents the possibility that their Rapture heresy might come true as Jebus pops into existence there and saves their bacon while killing off all Jews who don't instantly convert to Christianity, but that's only a veneer over seething hate and we all know it. They'll be back to screeching "Christ killer!" at little kids before much longer.

I know I'd feel a bit more comfortable if I had a country to escape to away from them but even though a few of my cousins have claimed the right of return, Ireland has never appealed to me.

[ellenrr]

25. yes the televangelists "love " of the Jews is almost funny

we know they really hate us .

I'm sure you know that they are big supporters (financially and otherwise) of the illegal settlements cuz they want Jews to return to the 'holy land' so the end of the world can happen.

Ototh, they would be happy to kill us all too.

[King_David]

29. 'Many, if not most, post-Holacaust Jews did not want to go to Israel.' (sic)

Where'd you get this from?

[King_David]

27. Agree with most of that, nt

[oberliner]

3. Larry Derfner is a moron

That he is still being published at a reputable site is hard to fathom.

[BillZBubb]

4. Telling the truth about Israel makes him a "moron" to Israel's propagandists.

[oberliner]

9. Not so

It was his defense of Greta Berlin - even in the face of contradictory evidence. Ali Abumninah, who is a staunch exposer of Israeli propaganda, laid out in great detail the truth about Berlin's lying but Derfner still stuck to his guns.

[Scootaloo]

16. Do you feel the same about your fellow posters...

And their defenses of Itamar Marcus, Chloe Valdary, Caroline Glick, Shmuley Boteach, Kenneth Meshoe, Nahum shahaf, Esther Schapira, Daniel Pipes, Khaled Abu Toameh, and Alan Dershowitz?

If not, why is that?

[King_David]

17. What's worse than that is on this forum that is supportive of the Democratic Party

Is people who self proclaim themselves to be Antizionists ( wink wink nudge budge)

Agree?

Imagine any democratic party candidate tolerating someone on their staff or volunteer who proclaimed such a thing....that person wouldn't last on the staff and or campaign even one day.... Not 1 day.


But yet here on DU I've seen it....

Can you believe that ????

[oberliner]

18. Reasonable question

I am decidedly not a fan of Marcus, Glick, or Pipes. Usually when someone posts something from one of those folks they are quickly reprimanded for using such dubious sources (or ignored).

Dershowitz, I have mixed feelings about. He does claim to be a Democrat, but his self-righteous tone often irritates me, and I disagree with a lot of what he has said on this topic. The rest of the names I don't really know very well, to be honest.

Derfner's behavior with respect to the Greta Berlin situation ought not to be forgotten, in my opinion. I actually did not have any particular issue with him either until that incident which really bothered me a lot (as you can probably tell).

[shira]

32. That group doesn't come close to all the anti-Zionist, Israel haters....

....who actively promote, support, or defend Jihadi groups like Hamas which is dedicated to destroying Israel and killing all the Jews.

You won't find any one of the people you mentioned supporting, promoting, or coming to the defense of racial Kahanist-style terror or violence against Palestinians.

[Israeli]

6. Larry Derfner ...

...is one of yours oberliner ...an American born Zionist .

The only differance between you is that he has lived here long enough to know how screwed up your ideology is .

If that makes him a " moran " .... what does that make you ?

[King_David]

7. Oberliner is too classy to answer that schoolyard taunt, so I will answer.

It makes Oberliner very wise as he has proved here.

[Israeli]

8. About as wise as you are KD ....

....which aint saying much .

[King_David]

11. Personal insults a plenty,

Well I don't doubt any fellow DUs intelligence. But these insults of lower intelligence seem to fly fast and furiously by some.

[King_David]

13. Do you always presume that anyone who you disagree with is not as smart as you are?

Netanyahu feels the same way .

You probably think you are the smartest person on your kibbutz I am sure ( except for Adam Keller )

[oberliner]

10. His behavior with regard to Greta Berlin was ridiculous

That is the reason why he should not be taken seriously as a journalist of any stripe.

[shaayecanaan]

20. It was definitely a low point

it was probably also a low point when john mearsheimer wrote a preface for Gilad Atzmon's book.

On the other hand, it was probably also a low point when the ADL actively campaigned against historical recognition of the Armenian Genocide. And it was probably a low point when the Simon Wiesenthal Centre held screenings of the islamophobic film 'the third jihad', which even the NYPD thought was an anti-muslim screed. What derfner did was no worse by comparison.

I think that dersh is basically an unctuous liar. It was pretty plain that he'd lifted large sections of his book from joan peters, complete with misattributions. It was pretty gutless of Harvard not to entertain what was a pretty straightforward instance of academic misconduct, as well.

[oberliner]

21. Agreed

I'm certainly not going to come to the defense of Dershowitz. In fact, whenever he is posted he usually gets a chilly response from many folks here due to the points you mentioned.

The same goes for the ADL whose leadership has made some dubious statements and has taken some questionable positions to say the least. They often get some digs as well here, especially Foxman when he is cited.

I have a similar reaction to Al Sharpton - a person who is respected here by many it seems, but for me I will always associate him with the Tawana Brawley fiasco and therefore cannot take him all that seriously.

[shira]

30. The ADL campaigning against recognition of the Armenian Genocide.....

....is probably the lowest point they fell to, and it doesn't get any worse than that - given what happened to the Jews of Europe 7 decades ago.

Goes to show how corrupt & depraved politics can be. I'm pretty certain they did it solely for political purposes (relations with Turkey).

=================

As to the 3rd Jihad, I haven't seen it but I'm sure there's some questionable content that could definitely be seen as bigoted.

The problem I personally have with (pretty much all) so-called anti-racist critics of documentaries like the 3rd Jihad is that these particular anti-racists don't appear to accept very legitimate criticism of radical Jihadist Islam whose victims first-and-foremost are fellow Muslims who don't agree with or actively work against radical Jihadist Islam.

WRT Israel, these so-called anti-racists are usually the first to come to Hamas' defense. We see it here constantly with certain radical Leftists, and within the sources they often cite.