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Nitram

(24,625 posts)
1. Collapsing floors above ejected a great deal of material from the buildings.
Mon Sep 12, 2016, 08:19 AM
Sep 2016

Clearly this started before the complete collapse and pancaking of the tower's floors as portions of some floors collapsed.

 

wildbilln864

(13,382 posts)
3. a) the towers did not pancake...
Mon Sep 12, 2016, 07:20 PM
Sep 2016

as per NIST and b) the items were ejected before collapse initiation.

Nitram

(24,625 posts)
5. I didn't use the word 'pancake'. You should read more carefully.
Tue Sep 13, 2016, 07:57 AM
Sep 2016

Portions of many floors did collapse.The collapse of part of a floor above expelled an enormous volume of air in the floor below, carrying with it debris both large and small.

William Seger

(11,057 posts)
2. LOL, same old cognitive dissonance
Mon Sep 12, 2016, 11:21 AM
Sep 2016

The Great Thermite Hunt began when "truthers" finally realized that rational people weren't buying theories about magical silent explosives: We don't hear the distinctive sound of detonations, said Steven Jones, because "they" melted through the steel with thermite (although he can't explain how melting through so many columns could be synchronized to cause a "sudden" collapse). And then, "truthers" just can't stop themselves from finding "evidence" of magical silent explosions throwing stuff all over the place. Calling this nonsense a "theory" is an exaggeration, but the current state of what passes for thinking in the "truth movement" -- at least among those who actually try to resolve this cognitive dissonance -- seems to be that this must have been super-secret high-tech thermite, so anything's possible. Arthur Clark said that sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic, so "truthers" take that to mean that the laws of physics are meaningless; any magical thing you can think of is possible with sufficiently advanced technology.

But as always, the question is: why should we prefer this extraordinary explanation when ordinary physics explains the collapses quite well? How about some credible evidence? Here's a fine example of what we get instead: Chandler declares that the stuff pouring out of the building had the "color temperature of molten iron." One might think that a former high school physics teacher would know at least a little about video imaging, but that claim exposes profound ignorance. Digital cameras do not -- cannot -- capture "true color" even within their dynamic range (i.e. the difference between the brightest and darkest pixels), and when a bright light "blows out" pixels to white, there's no information in those saturated pixels about either color or object details. Furthermore, Chandler's logic is faulty: Even if the stuff flowing out of the building did have the color temperature of molten iron, that doesn't mean it was molten iron, and even if it was molten iron, that doesn't mean it was from thermite melting. What that stuff has always reminded me of was the stuff that I saw flow out of an exploding transformer on a telephone pole that was hit by lightening, and "truthers" prefer to ignore that the area where the stuff was seen housed a large bank of lead-acid batteries for emergency power. Once again, people who would like to see all mundane explanations ruled out before accepting an extraordinary one are disappointed by "truther science."

For 10 years, Gage & Co have led the "truth movement" down the "controlled demolition" blind alley. He can count the number of people who have signed his bogus petition (petition to whom, if he doesn't trust the government?) and point to opinion polls showing how many people have been duped by the propaganda, but there is a very simple reason why the vast majority of qualified people consider the "truth movement" to be an insignificant internet cult: It's built on pseudo-scientific bullshit.

Happy anniversary.

ETA: Here's some molten aluminum showing the "color temperature of molten iron":


 

wildbilln864

(13,382 posts)
4. wrong again!
Mon Sep 12, 2016, 07:25 PM
Sep 2016

Last edited Mon Sep 12, 2016, 08:25 PM - Edit history (2)

That's not molten Aluminum, this is;

But do tell us how you think this is molten Al and what is the temperature William?
You always conveniently leave those details out. Any one can claim a picture is something it is not! I say it's not as long as you cannot substantiate your assertions. And if it is then what is the temperature required for it to glow this way and stay white hot as it drops through the September atmosphere?


Nitram

(24,625 posts)
6. William's point is still entirely valid. there are any number of substances that have a lower...
Tue Sep 13, 2016, 08:01 AM
Sep 2016

melting point than steel, and a digital camera is not a spectrometer. It cannot accurately capture the true color of the molten material, just the fact that it is very bright.

 

wildbilln864

(13,382 posts)
7. no! William's point is nonsense!
Tue Sep 13, 2016, 07:45 PM
Sep 2016

the only reason it was glowing "very bright" is because of heat. Eyewitnesses on the scene. Firefighters, & police saw molten steel flowing like lava per their own words. I will take the word of trained professionals over william's amateurish sophistry every time.

Nitram

(24,625 posts)
8. Trained professionals? Firefighters and police would not have been in a position to see...
Wed Sep 14, 2016, 07:24 AM
Sep 2016

the brief phenomena out of their line of sight recorded on the video you posted. Your own stubborn refusal to face facts seems to be a sad case of amateurish sophistry.

William Seger

(11,057 posts)
10. Oh yeah, that reminds me
Wed Sep 14, 2016, 12:36 PM
Sep 2016

... another magical property of hyper-tech supernanothermite is that it can keep steel molten for months.

But tell me more about this training that firefighters and police receive to visually identify molten material.

Jeffersons Ghost

(15,235 posts)
11. K&R IT LOOKS LIKE A PHOTOGRAPH OF SATELLITE CRASHING INTO A U.F.O. TO ME!!! [LOL] or...
Wed Sep 14, 2016, 02:08 PM
Sep 2016

It's a spiritual icon, proven - in court - to be comedy instead of real religion:

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