Scary trans monsters - perception is real in its consequences

[Ms. Toad]

I am not a monster. I am not a creature of tooth or claw, scales or deformity – I am not any sort of monster that is an evil antagonist bent on chaos and destruction.

. . .

I also know that I am perceived as a monster. If the sociological model’s definition of a situation is true – the definition which states “if a situation is perceived as real, it is real in its consequences” – then the perception that I’m a monster is real in its consequence.

How does one define transgender people as monsters? Well, this is how Conan O’Brien accomplished it in his June 12 monologue from Chicago, Ill. . . . Conan O’Brien named his scary transgender monster “Unconvincing Tranny"

. . .

Perhaps it’s time for the transgender activism of the monstrous. That’s not to embrace the idea that we are confused sexual, bathroom, or elementary school predators – that’s not to embrace the idea that we are men pretending to be women and therefore deserve to be the butt and brunt of jokes – but instead to embrace the monstrous activism of fighting back with rhetorical tooth and claw against those who define us as monsters. It would be embracing the monstrous activism of transgender “monsters” we choose to name “humans” – being not truly monsters at all.

http://lgbtweekly.com/2012/06/21/scary-trans-monsters/

[Initech]

1. Man I always thought Conan was one of the more progressive talk show hosts.

[Ms. Toad]

3. He apologized -

after he got pounded on it (the full story is in the article - I only excerpted enough to get the idea of it across).

[Zorra]

2. Is Chaz Bono a scary transgender monster?

Or is it only the Male to Female transfolk who these transphobic sexist bigots consider to be monsters?

Another perfect example of the extent of the insidious misogyny of this patriarchal society.

There are definitely vicious, deadly, soulless monsters mentioned in this article; but it's obviously not the trans folk who are the monsters.

[Ms. Toad]

4. The reality is that for most people transitioning after puberty,

it is easier to stop passing as cisgender for individuals whose transition is FTM than MTF.

I can only name one FTM friend who does not instantly strike me as male, post transition. Testosterone very powerfully masks feminine features. The only male friend I occasionally slip with does not take testosterone. The same is not true for most of my MTF friends - I have to do a lot more conscious thinking about gender pronouns for my friends whose transition has been MTF, except for my highschool girlfriend*.

It is only recently that we have started to listen to younger people about their gender identity. I have a friend with a son who is 4. Right now he is clear he is a boy (even though he has a female body), and at times has asked some pretty sophisticated questions about what makes/might make him a boy. His parents are being respectful of whatever pronoun preferences he expresses, knowing that at a minimum they have a gender queer child and that it is important for him to explore this. That means that they will look at where he is as he approaches puberty and evaluate whether hormone therapy might be appropriate. Some of their journey is blogged here. For those with parents lucky enough to listen, the psychological benefits of not going through the wrong body puberty (particularly for MTF) are enormous (and not just because you get to be yourself sooner).

But yes, the different perception of MTF v. FTM also involves a lot of mysogyny. My high school girlfriend is just starting to transition, but passed for 5 decades as a cisgender male, and heard what they said when they assumed no women was around). From that experience, she has had a glimpse that few women get of the strong reaction many males have against any man they see as rejecting male superiority - and knows that they see "becoming" a woman as doing just that.

*I use that term with her consent. It slipped out when I was talking about her to a friend one day, so I decided I should check to make sure it did not strike her as rewriting history. Although she expects most people to refer to her earlier years with male pronouns, it strikes us both as the most honest way to describe our high school relationship (even though it is not the term we would have used at the time).

[Zorra]

5. I just don't see how passing as a cisgender person is relevant.

I have trans man acquaintances that I met long after their transition and I knew right off they were not cis.

It doesn't matter to me that they are not cis, they are men. Men are men. And I feel the same way about trans women. They're women.

Trans folk are just like gay/lesbian folk - they are born that way.

Why should a trans person have to "pass" as cis? Why should a trans person be pressured to believe that they should alter their bodies, unless it is simply a personal choice that makes them more comfortable with themselves, or they want to make themselves more attractive to, and physically compatible with, the opposite sex? Why don't we just accept trans folk as who/what they were born?

"But yes, the different perception of MTF v. FTM also involves a lot of mysogyny. My high school girlfriend is just starting to transition, but passed for 5 decades as a cisgender male, and heard what they said when they assumed no women was around). From that experience, she has had a glimpse that few women get of the strong reaction many males have against any man they see as rejecting male superiority - and knows that they see "becoming" a woman as doing just that."

Yes, exactly, that's a huge part of my point.

There are also many women who are also appalled that anyone would voluntarily transition from a male to female body, but not from a female to male body. IMO, these women have bought what the oppressor is selling. These women demean and denigrate all women by doing so.

I wonder what straight men think about trans men? Would they unconditionally accept a trans man as "one of the boys" right out of the gate? I have no experience with this.

I ask this because of what I perceive to be the "it's completely natural for a person in a female to body adapt their body to their essential male gender , (because men are the perceived superior gender), but a total *abomination* for a person in a male body to want to adapt to their essential female gender" patriarchal mindset.

Maybe I'll post a poll in the Mens' Group, if the members wouldn't mind; I bet there would be some interesting thoughts on the subject.

[Ms. Toad]

6. I'm not saying that trans men need to pass as cis -

I am addressing why society responds differently to men than women. My experience is that there are two reasons. The first is that unless they choose to make themselves known most trans men live without anyone being aware that they are not cis gender. I had a conversation about passing just a few months ago with a trans male friend of mine, This has actually been a challenge for him because he doesn't want to pass, and that means he continually has to come out because the assumption is that he is cis. That has been the experience of every trans man I have talked with about it - including my foster son.

The same is not true for many trans women - most of my female trans friends have to work hard at passing, if that is what they choose to do.

I feel the same as you - my friends are just women, or men, or somewhere in the middle on the gender spectrum - and it makes absolutely no difference to me what their gender expression is. And I agree that no trans person should ever be pressured to alter their body. That said, many tell me they have never felt at home in their bodies and they want nothing more than to finally have a body they feel at home in. I was extremely concerned for my foster son when he went to another country to obtain breast reduction surgery because he didn't want to wait through the standard pre-surgical waiting period in this country. And I have a fair amount of sadness because the more extensive surgery that some of my female friends have sought feels to me like it is driven by societal expectations about what a woman "should" look like - and then I feel guilty because it isn't my place to question the surgical choices any individual makes to feel at home in their skin.

The second reason for the different societal reaction is mysogyny - which impacts both how we respond to the remnants of what my friend calls years of testosterone poisoning, and to the "choice" they are perceived as making to "become" a woman.

[Zenlitened]

8. Some very thoughtful posts by you both, here...

Ms. T and Zorra, thank you both for this interesting discussion. I hope to return to it in the next day or, to share a few thoughts. But right now it's late, must sleep.)

[Zorra]

9. Most excellent post, Ms. Toad.

Thanks

[wordpix]

10. as a mom of a FTM adult child, those pronouns are tricky when talking about times past

He was a girl way back when so refer to him in childhood as "he" and "him" ---it just doesn't fit.

[Ms. Toad]

11. Absolutely. I try to follow the lead of my friends.

And the only thing predictable I have found is that individual preferences are unpredictable.

I had been using male pronouns for my high school girlfriend (but with a neutral relationship designation). Girlfriend just slipped out during a conversation I had with someone else, and I realized it felt so much more right - so we talked about it and agreed that it worked for both of us. But our circumstances are pretty unique, and using female pronouns for her back then (for me) is an acknowledgement of all that was right in our relationship. But I expect I will be the only one in her life for whom that is true, because the undisclosed sexual minority status of each of us played such a unique status.

I would talk to your son and see what is comfortable for him - see how he thinks about himself back then. Having these conversations is both so hard and so worth it!

[Zenlitened]

7. "Another perfect example of the misogyny..."

Very true, sadly.