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DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Topics » Entertainment » Netflix, Streaming Videos & DVDs (Group) » Leaving Neverland

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 04:37 PM

AlexSFCA (3,673 posts)

Leaving Neverland

I’m surprised it’s not being discussed here. As a huge Jackson fan since childhood, it was heartbreaking to watch. I remember how happy I was in 2015 that he was acquitted so I beleived in the judicial system. However, I do beleive the two men in this new documentary without reservation. I think it is very important film, not even so much about Jackson but how ‘child grooming’ works. A must see for any parent. The parents of those two boys (now men) are definately at fault also. How can someone leave 8 year old boy with a grown man to sleep in the same bed?? They allowrd it cause they were showered with money from Jackson including paying off their mortgage.

Anyway, knowing all this and beleiving all this, I’m somehow able to separate him as a musician. I never thought of Jackson as an actual person anyway, he was 100% entertainer to me. Also, even if you don’t want to hear his music anymore, you can’t apply this standard to his songs from childhood era as he was just a child then not a predator.

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 15 replies Author Time Post
Reply Leaving Neverland (Original post)
 AlexSFCA Mar 2019 OP
LineReply I am in no way "in denial", but I just have no desire to watch
 hlthe2b Mar 2019 #1
LineLineNew Reply I guess justice was served
 AlexSFCA Mar 2019 #8
LineReply My daughter took hip hop classes with Wade Robson
 Heartstrings Mar 2019 #2
LineLineReply I don't think famoust kids were at risk. His victims were more likely poor, vulnerable kids from
 lunamagica Mar 2019 #5
LineLineLineNew Reply Agree, and he was so careful and deliberate
 JenniferJuniper Mar 2019 #6
LineReply What could go wrong in leaving your small son alone with a weird guy who:
 fleur-de-lisa Mar 2019 #3
LineReply I never did, and will never, ever understand how anyone can think that young boys
 lunamagica Mar 2019 #4
LineLineNew Reply I agree, however I don't think we had as much awareness about grooming 20 to 40 years ago
 TexasBushwhacker Mar 2019 #7
LineNew Reply Sickening
 Johnny2X2X Mar 2019 #9
LineNew Reply Paris Jackson Resurfaces After Denying Attempted Suicide Report
 IcyPeas Mar 2019 #10
LineNew Reply I caught part of it by accident...
 Phentex Mar 2019 #11
LineLineNew Reply Never a fan of MJ's music, but now can't stand the sound of it.
 Merlot Mar 2019 #12
LineNew Reply Didn't see the movie...
 llmart Mar 2019 #13
LineNew Reply 1. I separate Kevin Spacey being a despicable person and
 dewsgirl Mar 2019 #14
LineLineNew Reply and I think Spacey is nowhere near that level
 AlexSFCA Mar 2019 #15

Response to AlexSFCA (Original post)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 04:43 PM

Star Member hlthe2b (70,873 posts)

1. I am in no way "in denial", but I just have no desire to watch

I feel bad for the accusers and any others who may have suffered. I surely don't think Michael Jackson to be innocent of all (or even most) charges. I suppose the value is for the victims to get to tell their stories and be taken seriously. But, I see little value beyond that.

It is a sad chapter and I don't discount that Jackson's own physical and psychological abuse at the hands at his now-dead father is at least an "element" to the story.

Entertainment? NO. I won't watch the R. Kelly or any of a litany of these kinds of "documentary" pieces.
To each his/her own...

And no, I've not destroyed my MJ music. Nor will I. If his accusers want to sue the estate, so be it. The estate already has my money and that of countless millions. That he was horrendously flawed seems apparent. But, he was likewise quite talented. If he were alive, I think he would again(eventually) be held to account, but he is not.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #1)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 10:22 PM

AlexSFCA (3,673 posts)

8. I guess justice was served

cause he essentially killed himself living in fear and probably guilt for the last 15 years of his life. The childhood was stolen from the two men in the documentary and others (Jordy Chandler, Gavin Arvizo, etc.) It was the right thing to do for them to be completely open about it and have this documentary, I bet it is incredibly therpaeutic and healthy things to do. More than anything, the film is educational and will likely become mandated viewing in college psychology programs.

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Response to AlexSFCA (Original post)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 04:43 PM

Star Member Heartstrings (4,509 posts)

2. My daughter took hip hop classes with Wade Robson

So I got to know him in the early 2000's...he was already an incredible choreographer and I find him credible....

I have not watched the documentary and not sure I want to....I fear for McCauley Culkin, his siblings and Elijah Woods and what stories they may be keeping to themselves for the sake of the "King of Pop".....

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Response to Heartstrings (Reply #2)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 05:21 PM

Star Member lunamagica (9,817 posts)

5. I don't think famoust kids were at risk. His victims were more likely poor, vulnerable kids from

broken homes.

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Response to lunamagica (Reply #5)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 06:42 PM

JenniferJuniper (3,318 posts)

6. Agree, and he was so careful and deliberate

about grooming the Moms as well. (and one father)

He almost certainly didn't do that with the famous kids' parents. And he eventually ended up using them as shields against the working class victims.

He truly was a despicable human being. Very cunning.

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Response to AlexSFCA (Original post)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 04:49 PM

Star Member fleur-de-lisa (7,683 posts)

3. What could go wrong in leaving your small son alone with a weird guy who:

Lived in a castle/zoo with a chimp named Bubbles?

Slept in an oxygen tank?

Had so much plastic surgery his nose almost fell off?

Looked like a cadaver wearing a Captain Crunch costume?

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Response to AlexSFCA (Original post)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 05:18 PM

Star Member lunamagica (9,817 posts)

4. I never did, and will never, ever understand how anyone can think that young boys

having sleepovers with a grown man could be "innocent" and "OK".

I didn't care if he was acquitted or not. It just common sense, people! There is only one reason a man will want to sleep with boys. There is not any innocent justification for that.

It always baffled me that he got away with it.

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Response to lunamagica (Reply #4)

Tue Mar 12, 2019, 07:53 PM

Star Member TexasBushwhacker (14,154 posts)

7. I agree, however I don't think we had as much awareness about grooming 20 to 40 years ago

and frankly, we didn't take molestation all that seriously for a long time. Remember Chester the Molester in Hustler? That ran from '76 to '89. Can you imagine anyone finding that funny now? The issue of consent for EVERYONE became important because feminists made it important. It wasn't always that way. Anything other than "violent" sexual assault that caused bodily injury was pretty much laughed off with a wink and a "boys will be boys". For far too many it still is. Look at how Kavanaugh was accepted.

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Response to AlexSFCA (Original post)

Sun Mar 17, 2019, 01:21 PM

Johnny2X2X (5,214 posts)

9. Sickening

Jackson was just awful. The manipulation and control he excercised over these boys and their families was calculated and disturbing. He created dire consequences, real and unreal, for his victims if they told. Their careers, their family’s well being, and their sense of self worth became dependent on MJ.

This particular documentary really does a great job at showing an aspect of some abuse rarely discussed. That the abuser tricks the children into thinking it’s OK and normal, and even gets the abused to go think they love the abuser and defend them. And this can continue for years after the abuse ends. There are people that are abused and take it to the grave with them defending their abuser.

If there was ever a doubt, this film removed them. Michael Jackson was a vile sexual predator and a pedophikr.

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Response to AlexSFCA (Original post)

Sun Mar 17, 2019, 05:46 PM

Star Member IcyPeas (6,849 posts)

10. Paris Jackson Resurfaces After Denying Attempted Suicide Report

Paris Jackson, daughter of controversial pop icon Michael Jackson, is denying that she was recently hospitalized after attempting suicide. TMZ claimed on Saturday that Jackson “was transported to a hospital and placed on 5150 hold” after harming herself, which so-called family sources blamed “in large to the fallout from Leaving Neverland.” The model and singer quickly struck back over Twitter, blasting the gossip site for what she called false information: “fuck you you fucking liars.”


his children certainly had a weird childhood. I wonder how they are.


https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2019/03/paris-jackson-suicide-attempt-hospitalized

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Response to AlexSFCA (Original post)

Sun Mar 17, 2019, 07:25 PM

Star Member Phentex (14,960 posts)

11. I caught part of it by accident...

I woke up in the middle of the night and tried to find Forensic Files. Instead, they were showing Leaving Neverland. I found it fascinating. I incorrectly assumed it would be shown again but when I checked, it's only available by subscription.

So many people have said they won't listen to his music anymore but I am torn on that. I think I agree with you on the earlier stuff.

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Response to Phentex (Reply #11)

Mon Mar 18, 2019, 07:14 PM

Merlot (7,350 posts)

12. Never a fan of MJ's music, but now can't stand the sound of it.

If it comes on the radio while driving, or on streaming at home I change the channel. His music really bothers me now, except the music from the Jackson 5.

I have not seen the HBO special, instead heard an interview with both the men on NPR. They were credible and that interview forever changed on my opinion of MJ. Previously I thought the court trials were about inappropriate behavior by a very damaged and disturbed individual (MJ), but it didn't go farther than that. Easy to believe since he was found not guilty. Now it sickens me.

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Response to AlexSFCA (Original post)

Thu Mar 21, 2019, 08:36 PM

llmart (7,963 posts)

13. Didn't see the movie...

but last week I listened to Oprah's entire podcast interview with the two young men. It was pretty heartwrenching and after listening to them both I believe them 100%. Michael Jackson was one sick person.

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Response to AlexSFCA (Original post)

Tue Mar 26, 2019, 08:00 AM

Star Member dewsgirl (3,844 posts)

14. 1. I separate Kevin Spacey being a despicable person and

a phenomenal actor.
2. The level of grooming was shocking. The fact that he groomed the parents as well as the kids, is something I hadn't even thought of.

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Response to dewsgirl (Reply #14)

Tue Mar 26, 2019, 09:32 AM

AlexSFCA (3,673 posts)

15. and I think Spacey is nowhere near that level

and sophistication of MJ crimes, we are talking about 7y.o. But, yes, I think art is separate from the person.

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