I used to be a drunk...

[Comatose Sphagetti]

But a growing awareness something was terribly wrong - and the insistence of law enforcement - brought me to a treatment center.
There I attended recovery meetings.
Now, this was back in the day. There was no coddling. You were not-so-delicately informed you were full of shit... That your thinking was irrational, that you were suffering from a psychosis defined by delusion, denial, rationalization, minimization, etc. All in an absurd effort to keep from addressing the underlying issue (fear) causing the problem.
Now, I'm just as smart as anyone else. But I would not/could not see my behavior. I DID NOT SEE IT. It took the help of others years down the road to recovery for me to see my behavior as others saw it.
I bring this up because I see the same delusion, denial, rationalization, minimization, etc. in trumpers. They DO NOT/CANNOT SEE the hypocrisy, fear, and absurd thinking/behavior. They are suffering, as I was, from a fear-based psychosis.
How to change this? It is difficult. I was a Social Worker working with drunks and most would not internalize the fact they were mentally/emotionally disturbed - and many died. The only thing I can do is what I do today - set an example through altruism and service to others.
The great benefit of these recovery meetings is that I have others to help me see if I begin to fall back into fear-based behavior; others help me see what I need to do to stay a rational, sane, compassionate human being.
A warning: The inability to see our own behavior/warped thinking applies to everyone - right and left.

[irisblue]

1. Thanks!

We have had people here who stumble (ha) in.

[cilla4progress]

2. Great post, and thank you for

sharing your story.

You have a high level of self-awareness, I believe, to attribute your addiction to fear, at its root.

I had a terrifying "psychotic" interaction with a trumper in my home last year. He took me down rabbit holes of his own design. Ultimately, I thought I could shut him up bringing up the lie about Obama'a birth certificate. When he STILL alleged that was falsified, thowing out crazy conspiracies, I knew he was beyond recovery, and have not nor will I ever speak with him or be in his presence again. I asked him to leave.

The scariest part? He made me self-doubt. Or at least self-question. I trundled up to my safe space in bed and started researching all the premises I knew were true. For about 36 hours I was mind-fucked. This is why I will never engage with these monsters. It's hard for me to watch Loesch and other apologists, much less trump. It makes me feel a little crazy myself. This is part of their (and Putin's) game.

[Comatose Sphagetti]

4. Well said.

Again, they cannot see it, as I could not see my own absurdity.
Unfortunately it is exhausting to reason with the ill and it often takes catastrophic events (anyone relate?) for behavior to change.
The problem is we are like the loved ones of the afflicted: We're being taken down as a nation by their madness.

[SCantiGOP]

3. I buried my best friend at 45

Booze, pills, coke, whatever. He died from what a John Mayall song termed "Another Accidental Suicide."
But you are correct, it is nearly impossible to see ourselves as we really are. The intoxicants are just too good at fooling you into keeping them in charge.
He came to a party once and everyone was very supportive and congratulatory that he had gone 2 weeks without drinking after getting a DUI. He was so proud of the fact that he had beaten back the demons that ------------- he got drunk to celebrate.
I remember trying to convince him, until he got too drunk to make sense, that you couldn't celebrate sobriety by drinking.

This was all 20 years ago. I still have regrets and feel horrible that I didn't do more to intervene in his situation, even though I really don't think there was anything I could have done that would have worked.

[Comatose Sphagetti]

5. "...even though I really don't think there was anything I could have done that would have worked."

You are correct.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

6. The line between fear and rage is very thin - fear leads to rage.

And Trumpers are getting an adrenaline rush from their fear-induced rage. Adrenaline is a tough drug to kick.

[Comatose Sphagetti]

9. For me, rage is fear.

I pretty much have only three states of mind...
Fear, indifference and humility.
All of my "defects of character" stem from fear, and all altruism from humility.

[cilla4progress]

13. So cool.

Humility is so important.

What I'm learning, related to this, is that all negative interaction (generally, my own) and thought, really, stem from ego. So, same as fear.

When I operate from ego, everything is a wreck. I'm not saying I've beaten it back entirely, but I do try to stay aware of how it figures in when I am in distress. I also am getting good at seeing it in others.

[Comatose Sphagetti]

15. Yep.

Fear.
Fear of not getting what I want, and fear of losing what I have... Ego, pride, rage, anger, etc., etc., ad infinitum, all arise out of fear.
Fear is self. Humility is selflessness.

[JayhawkSD]

7. There is a big difference between what I see in myself and what I see in others.

"I see the same delusion, denial, rationalization, minimization, etc. in trumpers."

When I see those things in myself it is called self examination and or self realization. When I see them in others it is called judgement, and is a very different thing.

You do not see it in them, because you are not inside their minds. You see someone who disagrees with you and you judge them to be guilty of "delusion, denial, rationalization, minimization, etc" because they disagree with you, not because you can actually seen those mechanisms at work inside their heads.

The proclivity to judge others, to endlessly declare that others are wrong and that I know what is right, is very much a major component of the disease of addiction. In the 36 years that I have been in recovery I have seen this aspect justified, and downplayed by people who said they could continue to judge others and claim universal knowledge, and I have seen the vast majority of them bite the dust.

You may be able to stay sober knowing that you know what is right and that anyone who disagrees with you is in "delusion, denial, rationalization, minimization, etc," but my experience suggests that the odds are against you.

[Comatose Sphagetti]

8. We will have to agree to disagree, my friend. (N/T).

[Backwoodsrider]

11. thanks old timer

When I see those things in myself it is called self examination and or self realization. When I see them in others it is called judgement, and is a very different thing

good stuff

[Backwoodsrider]

10. Yes to some of us who has been through it we can see addictive behaviors galore in politics

Nice catch on seeing the current state of our politics we could use an intervention.

But I ask myself 'what can I do about it?'.

First off I am not going to go out and tell a Trump supporter they are wrong. Confrontation does not work in this area expecially when both side are primed for a fight. I know some Trump supporters in my small town they are towards the lower end of the economic/education scale and have not done a lot of winning in their life time so they bought into what Trump as selling. So now they finally they see a chance to come out the winners over us Liberals and they bought what Trumps been selling. So they have bought in to Trumps propaganda and have had to swallow some BS this last year. With each bad thing about Trump they swallowed the blinders become darker and darker.

What I AM doing is listening to Trump supporters. I don't have to agree with them just list and let them do their own discovery and decision making.

Finally Trump is many of the supporters power their commander and chief so who are the Trump supporters going to jump to as the Truth about Trump becomes too obvious to ignore? Who is going to be the wind in the disenfranchised Trump supporters sails?

Every day on the news Trump helps me see my character defects in another person

[Comatose Sphagetti]

12. "Every day on the news Trump helps me see my character defects in another person"

Yep. Helps me to see "What I used to be like..."

[cilla4progress]

14. I'm afraid they will turn on us -

progressives - as scapegoats.

Great conversation here!

[irisblue]

16. It's hard for me, sometimes, to not take trumpers inventory. Woman in the Mirror.

And the line between taking inventory & legit political social critique shifts for me when I feel trampled on by their practices & behavior. Still trying to own my stuff.

[gibraltar72]

17. Not an addict but

I served on board of a halfway house addiction facility for over 20 years including chairman of board. I was always amazed how far some people would go to keep from admitting they had a problem. One case really hit home. My wife was a manager of a department in a large store One of her female employees was married to an abusive drunk. He had been in trouble many times but the judge grew weary and got tough. The next day my wife came home from work just steaming. She said her employee had torn into her and asked how I could serve on such a horrible board who didn't help people. I of course asked my wife what was going on. Her employee told her we charged so much her poor husband couldn't afford to come to our house and had to sit in jail. Real story judge told him go to jail or to our facility. The court paid for him to go but he told his wife it cost over a thousand dollars a month which they couldn't afford. Truth being he lied to his wife and himself rather that face the fact he was an alcoholic and needed help.

[irisblue]

18. Ah geez🤦‍♀️

[Iggo]

19. "...a growing awareness something was terribly wrong..."

I remember that feeling.

[JDC]

20. Yep. He is also a "higher power" of sorts to them

His messaging and "ideology" is vague and makes no sense to the "sober" voter. To the Trumpanzees, his statements and actions mean whatever they want them to mean. In a typical program, the higher power acceptance is positive, perhaps healthy. In this case, and like everything else that is trump, a deep rooted negative and sickness.

[Comatose Sphagetti]

21. I've heard people in the program refer to non-alcoholics as "normies," as in normal people.

I've learned that many normies are not normal at all and in fact are similar in myriad ways to what we would call 'dry drunks.'

[raccoon]

23. IME Many people who don't go to any meetings really

Need to. Some are untreated ACOAs, some are terminally codependent, some are super control freaks, etc.

[Stuart G]

22. One of the most important lessons of the meetings...is ..acceptance...

We do the best we can to accept ourselves as we are .."today" and somehow accept others as they are ..today..
I learned I know only so much about life..today...

......................................................I am OK...... I only hope that those that I watch do not hurt innocent other people...and I try not to hurt innocent other people...and each day, I try somehow not to hurt me, with
..either thoughts or actions..............................
.. The thought part is the toughest......but from time to time, I do ask my higher power to help me change a thought...or....I ask, "What would the higher power want me to do or say in this situation?"......Usually that calms me down enough to see things somewhat clearer..Sometimes I need to take a deep breath and think about something quiet and peaceful...and that helps..When I can picture my HP helping me through, that also helps..but each of us has to get through somehow or some way. It is up to each of us to find our own HP and somehow get through the day without hurting ourselves or others...thanks for reading this...Stuart