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Freddie

(9,258 posts)
Sat May 11, 2019, 08:15 AM May 2019

This sums it up perfectly

Stolen from a comment on Quora by Sarah Geer. This is 100% spot-on.


...well for starters the real issue ISN’T whether a
fetus is a human life or not. The real issue is bodily autonomy rights.

Even if one were to pretend a nonviable, nonsentient fetus is a full person due rights under the law, the bodily autonomy issue remains: no person in our society is allowed to use the bodies or organs of other people unless they have that person’s EXPRESS POSITIVE CONSENT, not even to save their own lives.

A man on the transplant list cannot force another man to donate him a kidney, even if that second man is the only match and the first will die without it.

A doctor may not take blood or organs from a corpse without that person’s prior consent to posthumous organ donation, even to save the life of a dying child.

Thus a fetus cannot use a woman’s body and organs against her will and without her express consent. Contrary to popular claim by conservatives, sex is not consent to pregnancy (my consent for a man to have use of my vagina is NOT consent for a third party to take over my uterus and use my entire body for 40 weeks), and POSITIVE INFORMED consent is required for organ donation or use to begin with.

And the reason there is so much “hate” on this issue is because one side believes women are simply THINGS the moment they have sex; that they are nothing more than incubators who must risk their lives and health whether they want to or not in order to give birth. That they give up their rights to their bodies the instant they have sex.

The other side thinks women are actual people.

30 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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This sums it up perfectly (Original Post) Freddie May 2019 OP
In many of the most anti-choice states (if not all states) BaileyBill May 2019 #1
another "reason there is so much "hate" on this issue" handmade34 May 2019 #2
I see it as 2naSalit May 2019 #8
link: CousinIT May 2019 #3
"Can not take blood or organs from a corpse without that person's consent" lostnfound May 2019 #4
I doubt that any of them are donors but I would bet they would all be takers if they needed it. nt GemDigger May 2019 #13
I thijnk for a lot of a certain type of men Sucha NastyWoman May 2019 #5
I would add 2naSalit May 2019 #9
I think it's about the ability to control a woman's body when a man is not around. amywalk May 2019 #19
THEY DO NOT CARE dvan May 2019 #6
like playing golf with trump? rampartc May 2019 #26
Personal views on abortion should remain personal sop May 2019 #7
Exactly Freddie May 2019 #11
i'm sorry your daughter had such a difficult time orleans May 2019 #23
It is worse than just the number of children... Moostache May 2019 #22
Pro-life is a myth. keithbvadu2 May 2019 #10
This is EXACTLY what I have been saying for decades. Haggis for Breakfast May 2019 #18
I've been saying for years that if you don't believe in abortion then don't have one. PoindexterOglethorpe May 2019 #12
I couldn't agree more Fresh_Start May 2019 #14
Best explanation I've ever read. BlancheSplanchnik May 2019 #15
Yup. I am either a human being or an incubator Freddie May 2019 #17
Yep. Plenty of sci-fi fantasies about that. BlancheSplanchnik May 2019 #28
OMG, I love the OP and the comments. Delmette2.0 May 2019 #16
That is an EXCELLENT point, BobTheSubgenius May 2019 #20
A co-worker said sex outside of marriage is wrong, and a pregnancy which results LastLiberal in PalmSprings May 2019 #21
omg--who needs to hear shit like that at work! orleans May 2019 #24
He started the conversation out of thin air. "What do you think about abortion?" LastLiberal in PalmSprings May 2019 #27
You rock. That's the best slam method ever! BlancheSplanchnik May 2019 #29
lol -- nice work! :) n/t orleans May 2019 #30
But men never get punished at all, right? Freddie May 2019 #25

BaileyBill

(171 posts)
1. In many of the most anti-choice states (if not all states)
Sat May 11, 2019, 08:54 AM
May 2019

you are allowed to use deadly force against anyone who enters your home without consent and causes you to be in fear for your life or safety. Yet they deny the same right if someone enters your body without your consent. The problem is expecting those on the right to respect logic, much less women.

handmade34

(22,756 posts)
2. another "reason there is so much "hate" on this issue"
Sat May 11, 2019, 09:00 AM
May 2019

one side sees sex as merely a biological function and the other side sees sex as an enjoyable, intimate way to communicate and express yourself with another human

the former sees the need to punish women for enjoying sex

2naSalit

(86,436 posts)
8. I see it as
Sat May 11, 2019, 10:24 AM
May 2019

the ones who view sex as a biological exercise mean that it is only that for women, the others sex is allowed to enjoy it even when it's rape.

lostnfound

(16,169 posts)
4. "Can not take blood or organs from a corpse without that person's consent"
Sat May 11, 2019, 09:42 AM
May 2019

That’s an argument I’ve never heard before and it’s an interesting one.
Wonder how many anti-abortion men have refused to consent to organ donation.
Fascinating.

Sucha NastyWoman

(2,741 posts)
5. I thijnk for a lot of a certain type of men
Sat May 11, 2019, 10:12 AM
May 2019

It is about the right to spread their seed, and the frustration that women can decide what happens to that seed, and there is nothing they can do about it except enlist the law to give them a say in the matter.

2naSalit

(86,436 posts)
9. I would add
Sat May 11, 2019, 10:28 AM
May 2019

that they "right" to spread their seed also includes, in their reckoning, the woman's obligation to accommodate them.

amywalk

(254 posts)
19. I think it's about the ability to control a woman's body when a man is not around.
Sat May 11, 2019, 10:01 PM
May 2019

They don’t want women to be able to have sex with other people without severe consequences.

dvan

(79 posts)
6. THEY DO NOT CARE
Sat May 11, 2019, 10:18 AM
May 2019

The problem is- we keep expecting them to act like rational, caring, moral people. They are not and never will be. It’s like playing a game with someone who doesn’t care about the rules. You may get a “moral victory” because you didn’t cheat like they did, but you still get the “L”. I’m not saying we need to start breaking the law and cheating like they do, but we have to do everything in our power to defeat them and put our foot on their throats. Extreme methods must be used on these right wing extremists.

sop

(10,126 posts)
7. Personal views on abortion should remain personal
Sat May 11, 2019, 10:21 AM
May 2019

Last edited Sat May 11, 2019, 11:44 AM - Edit history (1)

The State has absolutely no right to control what a woman chooses to do with her own body. None whatsoever, under any condition. A state that arrogates that type of power over a woman's reproductive system to itself can also dictate how many children a woman can have, like the old China one-child policy.

Freddie

(9,258 posts)
11. Exactly
Sat May 11, 2019, 11:05 AM
May 2019

I had to share this as it really hit home. My daughter recently endured a difficult pregnancy. Morning sickness, migraines, gestational diabetes (with insulin and a very restrictive diet) and near the end she developed HELPP syndrome, which is similar to pre-eclampsia except more likely to be fatal. She did all that because SHE WANTED THE BABY. Can you imagine being forced to risk your life like that against your will??
She had an emergency c-section when her blood pressure spiked and had a healthy baby girl, a little early at 35 weeks but otherwise fine. She also got her tubes tied so it doesn’t happen again. The forced birthers object to that too, would prefer that she die after a short life of constant childbearing.

orleans

(34,042 posts)
23. i'm sorry your daughter had such a difficult time
Sun May 12, 2019, 01:06 AM
May 2019

and i'm very glad both her and her baby are doing well.

thank you for posting this

Moostache

(9,895 posts)
22. It is worse than just the number of children...
Sun May 12, 2019, 12:52 AM
May 2019

The slippery slope goes from number to permissible number of sexual acts, to number of sexual partners, to permissible times for sexual acts, to permitted positions for insemination, etc...

Small government? Who will staff the Inter-uterus investigation patrol? Where will the judges on the Reproductive Crimes units come from - appointees? elections? How long will they serve on the bench? Lifetime appointments? 2-year terms? 4? 6? Who DECIDES a viable pregnancy when potential harm, loss of fertility or death are possible for the pregnant woman? Like EVERYTHING out of a conservative pea brain, there is no "there" there....no plans, no thoughts, no logic, no consistency...

Reduce abortions? BULLSHIT...you only INCREASE the health risks to women and the number of deaths from dangerous abortions in uncontrolled underground and back alley 'services'.

Think of the 'child'? Yeah, riiiiiiight, until it goes home and needs food or health care or education or support for the parents. Without MANDATORY child welfare laws ATTACHED to anti-abortion laws they are nothing but state sanctioned cruelty writ into law.

I really abhor the anti-choice, control the women crowd. Almost as deeply as a I hate Trump. Fuck them all with the same rusty garden tool.

keithbvadu2

(36,695 posts)
10. Pro-life is a myth.
Sat May 11, 2019, 11:03 AM
May 2019

Pro-life is a myth.

The supposed pro-lifers cared naught when the state of Texas (republican gov, republican Prez) deliberately killed living baby Sun Hudson against the mother's wishes because he was an inconvenience to the state.

It is not a matter of life to the supposed pro-lifers.

It is a matter of control.

Haggis for Breakfast

(6,831 posts)
18. This is EXACTLY what I have been saying for decades.
Sat May 11, 2019, 09:40 PM
May 2019

It's ALL about MEN having CONTROL over WOMEN's bodies.

To these men, women are something to be owned.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,829 posts)
12. I've been saying for years that if you don't believe in abortion then don't have one.
Sat May 11, 2019, 11:06 AM
May 2019

Of course, all the anti-choice people simply don't believe that females should have any autonomy whatsoever.

And I notice that all of those forced pregnancy states are likewise enthusiastic supporters of state sanctioned pre-meditated murder, which they call by the strange name of "The Death Penalty".

Fresh_Start

(11,330 posts)
14. I couldn't agree more
Sat May 11, 2019, 01:23 PM
May 2019

if women have to donate their bodies...
then every adult in the US needs to also be on call to donate from their bodies and that donation has to be more than a pint of blood.

let them give a kidney, part of your lung, part of your liver, bone marrow, part of your pancreas, part of your intestine, part of your skin....., veins, you can even survive with one eye....

if some people are expected to be demanded to give of their bodies, so should all people be demanded to give of their bodies.

let's see how many of the pro-lifers can walk that walk.

Freddie

(9,258 posts)
17. Yup. I am either a human being or an incubator
Sat May 11, 2019, 09:28 PM
May 2019

Forcing a woman to give birth against her will is an insult to her worth as a human.

21. A co-worker said sex outside of marriage is wrong, and a pregnancy which results
Sat May 11, 2019, 11:09 PM
May 2019

is God's way of punishing the woman.

27. He started the conversation out of thin air. "What do you think about abortion?"
Sun May 12, 2019, 08:52 AM
May 2019

he asked. "I'd never have one," I said, hoping to deflect the entire conversation I knew what was to follow. He pressed the issue and I said I'd discuss it seriously with him, but first I needed to write something down.

The conversation continued throughout the lunch period, with him giving the usual bullshit bullet points and me refuting his arguments with facts. Finally I got him backed into a corner where he admitted he thought God didn't approve of sex outside of marriage, and that making the woman bear the child that results from it is His way of punishing her.

I handed him the paper I had written on at the beginning of the discussion. On it I had written, "____ will say that sex outside of marriage is wrong, and forcing the woman to bear a child is God's way of punishing her."

"We could have saved a half hour if you had just told the truth when we began this discussion," I said as I got up to return to work.

That was the last time he brought up the topic.

Freddie

(9,258 posts)
25. But men never get punished at all, right?
Sun May 12, 2019, 07:51 AM
May 2019

Those evil wimmen do it all by themselves.
I read a comment by a “conservative” in which they said that one of their main principles was “no one should have children unless they can afford them.” And in the meantime make it difficult to prevent them! They actually say this stuff with a straight face.

Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Pro-Choice»This sums it up perfectly