Gun Control & RKBA
Related: About this forumGun control, creativity and...
...good old American know-how.
As was demonstrated during the last AWB, banning a product will motivate those with a financial incentive to modify the product so as to be compliant with the letter of the law.
An analogy from mid '60s NASCAR building:
The governing body-> sets a rule mandating maximum capacities for gas tanks.
Pit crews-> before refueling during the first pits stop, use compressed air to bulge gas tanks.
The governing body-> begins measuring gas tank capacities before and after the race.
Mechanics-> run a 1" diameter gas line around the cars a few times netting a few extra gallons.
...
...
...
On it goes, the fundamentals of changing peripheral attributes of a device or system so as to meet the letter of the law devise by those with insufficient knowledge of the device or system provide a challenge for mechanical engineers.
Bravo!
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)those that do, will.
and round and round we go.
man is, by nature, curious.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,482 posts)...'create a useful and effective gun law' for how long??? At least 40 years???
It seems we haven't made a good one yet because the control folks keep telling us we need a new one... and another...
What is it that Einstein said about repeating actions and expecting different results????
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)<----Einstein
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,482 posts)...a Scotsman who said, "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me."
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,482 posts)...others will eventual learn as well as you have.
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)Don't you think something needs to be done to stop the senseless loss of life? I'm not sure any new law will help, but I sure as hell know something needs to be done and it'd not just the "control folks" who think that.
We go round in circles because nobody is coming up with any viable solutions. Well, almost nobody. I think I came up with a pretty darned good one.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,482 posts)Please share.
holdencaufield
(2,927 posts)... between doers (engineers, technicians and mechanics) and looters (politicians and their minions) the long-term money will always be on the doers. All the looters can do is change the rules -- they can never stand in the way of intelligent people getting what they need.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,482 posts)...(which may be expressed in a number of ways) goes to the overall evidence that the "control" part of gun control is a myth.
What are these folks? Hard of learning?
holdencaufield
(2,927 posts)...is a powerfully addictive drug. It takes a very self-aware person to see that wielding that authority without regard to the consequences -- even if done for the "noblest of reasons" -- is a fundamental wrong.
Every evil committed in history has been instigated for what someone believed was the noblest of reasons.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,482 posts)"Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority...the Constitution was made to guard against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters."
(emphasis is mine)
holdencaufield
(2,927 posts)... but I thought it was "Star Trek"
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,482 posts)...but it was quoted once by Mr Scot in the Original Series.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)something along those lines, methinks
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,482 posts)...arose as part of a quotation by the expansively named and impressively hirsute John Emerich Edward Dalberg Acton, first Baron Acton (18341902). The historian and moralist, who was otherwise known simply as Lord Acton, expressed this opinion in a letter to Bishop Mandell Creighton in 1887:
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,482 posts)...usually much wiser than I, have expressed my same thoughts with such eloquence, that if it were a blade, I imagine the Earth would have been cut in two.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,482 posts)Of course you'd think that being someone who writes for a living, I'd be better at it.
Perhaps I'll write better when my past 24 hours include a better ratio of hours asleep to hours flying.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)Jetsetter, you
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,482 posts)...fly for fun to top vacation destinations. I fly with 180 other sardines in coach via USWhere? just to go to work.
OTOH I met Richard Simmons once.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,482 posts)I think he has big feet too, he almost stepped on my foot.
sylvi
(813 posts)And unfortunately for those rank-and-file partisans who are okay with their side having that absolute power (read: kicking down doors to collect those scary black guns), they fail to acknowledge that power may shift to a side with far more sinister intentions.
Republi-fascist plutocracy with an unarmed populace at its feet, anyone?
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,482 posts)"Foolish liberals who are trying to read the Second Amendment out of the Constitution by claiming its not an individual right or that its too much of a public safety hazard, dont see the danger in the big picture. Theyre courting disaster by encouraging others to use the same means to eliminate portions of the Constitution they dont like."
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,482 posts)...I've always thought applies to those who seek control "for the good of us all."
"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred. - Niccolo Machiavelli
ileus
(15,396 posts)Been a tech/engineer 26 years...
holdencaufield
(2,927 posts)We are told of a race of beings called the Golgafrinchans. When their planet was in danger of destruction they created three space arks to take their civilisation to safety.
The A-Ark was to contain the thinkers -- philosophers and engineers
The C-Ark was to contain the doers -- technicians and builders
The B-Ark was everyone else (consisting of TV producers*, insurance salesmen, personnel officers, security guards, management consultants, advertising executives, telephone sanitisers and -- presumably -- politicians)
The B-Ark was launched into space first and apparently was never followed by the other two and somehow Golgafrinch was never destroyed.
The B-Ark eventually crash-landed on Earth in the distant pre-human past and we are their descendants.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,482 posts)...interests me more than being an engineer is all-being master of time, space and dimensions.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,482 posts)...that absolute power thought again.
Logical
(22,457 posts)At Tue Jan 8, 2013, 07:30 AM an alert was sent on the following post:
In any contest ...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=101232
REASON FOR ALERT:
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)
ALERTER'S COMMENTS:
All politicians are looters including Dems? This gun nut is on the wrong website. Send him back to ar-15.com. Hide this post for being anti-Dem, and TOS is checked.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Jan 8, 2013, 07:35 AM, and the Jury voted 0-6 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: The gun nut meme is beyond played out. There is nothing wrong with this post. In addition, this alert borders on abuse of the system. Mods please take note.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Alerter needs to get a grip.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: The notion that all politicians are corrupt is a common and nonpartisan cynicism.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Dumb alert! Just an gun bigot whining!
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
holdencaufield
(2,927 posts)I never had a 0-6 decision before.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,482 posts)...an icon that conveys to the alerter...
GETTING HIS ASS HANDED TO HIM.
holdencaufield
(2,927 posts)... think it makes up for the times when I saw the most innocuous posts hidden because the jury was either unable to fathom the context or just saw the topic and decided a ban was appropriate regardless.
Juries are always a crap shoot and even the most insane juror explanation won't be hidden.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,482 posts)...I find myself considering a most confusing and feebly worded alert on a very abstruse and possibly sarcastic to third power post. First a flip a coin on whether to ditch and be excused, leaving this to confused and annoy another, or take a guess at these layers of meanings. Should the latter be the decision, I usually flip again to decide between leave and hide. Here's the coin.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,482 posts)...the first time I read it: "The gun nut meme is beyond played out. There is nothing wrong with this post. In addition, this alert borders on abuse of the system. Mods please take note."
MotherPetrie
(3,145 posts)discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,482 posts)Some folks inherit star spangled eyes,
Ooh, they send you down to war, Lord,
And when you ask them, "How much should we give?"
Ooh, they only answer More! more! more! yoh,
Spryguy
(120 posts)clause. Engineer around that.
Also, create a definition for "handgun" and ban those as well. Leaves bolt action rifles, muzzle loading rifles, and breach loading shotguns for the hunters to go murder wildlife with.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,482 posts)There is no need to engineer around what can't happen.
holdencaufield
(2,927 posts)If it ever got the chance, a deer would kill you and everyone you love.
holdencaufield
(2,927 posts)... this fully-automatic weapon
... can be made with off the shelf plumbing parts, a drill press and a few hand tools. The plans are on the Internet and you can order the full-scale cutting templates on Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/P.-A.-Luty/e/B001KILFNM
Or, were you planning on banning drill presses as well?
Remmah2
(3,291 posts)We can't have information like this in the hands of the public komrade.
Spryguy
(120 posts)Even Britain has gun deaths ( a whopping 35!) But an outright ban on the weapons I described combined with registration and heavy limits on storage and use of guns would almost eliminated u.s. gun crime. And gun manufacturers would not be able to work around my limits
holdencaufield
(2,927 posts)Gee -- ya think?
You can impose all the un-Constitutional limits you want -- it will never stop anyone with a C+ average in high school shop from making all the illegal firearms -- far more deadly than what is available from the manufacturers -- they want.
Pot has been banned for nearly 80 years -- did that stop anyone who wants to smoke from doing so?
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)falling block and trapdoor action rifles?
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/07/22/1090464799535.html
He revealed that three Owen submachine-guns and parts to make another six had been seized from a building in Melbourne's south-east.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sten#Foreign-built_variants_and_post_1945_derivatives
kudzu22
(1,273 posts)Add a button to the grip that the user has to press to "reset" for the next shot. Make the magazine integral, so that it has to be removed with a tool. Now it meets your definition and is just as deadly.
Spryguy
(120 posts)And using a tool to swap the magazin is certainly more cumbersome
Not as deadly, sorry
Clames
(2,038 posts)discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,482 posts)I like that.
spin
(17,493 posts)with standard magazine that had a capacity of less than 10 rounds.
While hi-capacity magazines were always available during the ban as long as they were manufactured before a certain cut off date, manufacturers were selling semi-auto pistols with magazines that held no more than 10 rounds.
Many shooters find a 15 or 17 round magazine an positive attribute of a Glock or similar pistols when compared to an older 1911 style .45 ACP pistol which usually had a standard magazine size of
7 or 8 rounds. Some manufacturers of 1911 style 45 ACP pistols started to manufacture a line of these pistols with a magazines capacity of more than 10 rounds but after the AWB such magazines sold for a high price.
(I should note that I never felt any real need to have a firearm with more than a 10 round magazine but I am somewhat of an oddity as I personally prefer revolvers over pistols for target shooting and self defense. I do own two .22 caliber target pistols with 10 round magazines which are extremely accurate and I enjoy shooting them on the range.)
So pistol manufacturers decided to develop sub compact pistols that could be easily carried by people who had carry permits. This proved to be a wise plan as pistols such as the .380 Ruger LCP which has only a six round magazine proved very popular with the concealed carry crowd. Concealing a full sized pistol is a real pain in the ass and is often very uncomfortable. Sub compact pistols such as the Ruger LCP are very easy to conceal and are excellent pocket pistols when used with a pocket holster. They are so light that you can almost forget that you are carrying them.
I feel that these fewer pistols influenced many people to get a concealed carry permit and start carrying on a regular basis.
Often foolish legislation has unintended consequences.