Girl killed by stray bullet at sleepover among four dead in violent Chicago weekend

[doxydad]

An 11-year-girl was shot and killed during a slumber party as violence struck Chicago over the weekend, local media outlets reported on Sunday.

At least 40 people were shot, and four killed, in weekend violence in the third-largest U.S. city, the NBC affiliate in Chicago reported.

The deaths included an 11-year-old girl, shot in the head inside a first-floor bedroom on Friday night after someone fired a gun from outside the house, said Chicago Police Officer Jose Estrada.

Shamiya Adams, who died the next day, had been sitting on the floor during a sleep-over at her best friend’s home, the Chicago Tribune reported.

The Chicago Police Department on Sunday had not released an official tally of the weekend violence. But reports of another outbreak of gunfire came as the city has been grappling with a wave of summer violence.

City officials condemned as unacceptable a spree of gunfire over the Fourth of July holiday weekend that left 17 dead, with 53 people shot, including five by police. Authorities said at the time that shooting deaths in Chicago were down for the year.


http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/07/21/girl-killed-by-stray-bullet-at-sleepover-among-four-dead-in-violent-chicago-weekend/

NO MORE GUNS. STOP THE VIOLENCE.

[Duckhunter935]

1. are you for confiscation?

[mikeysnot]

2. Now if she only had a concealed carry permit, this would not happen...

[blueridge3210]

3. Interesting theory.

Can you point to any pro-RKBA proponent that has actually tried to make this argument? Of course not, because it's a pure straw-man and a poor one at that.

[mikeysnot]

4. Give me a week and I will flood you...

I get all thew wrong wing-wacko gun nut emails.... I will gladly share their false equivalencies with you...

Those in favor of looser gun restrictions say the shootings in Chicago show that gun control laws do not reduce violence. “They’ve already had handgun bans in the city of Chicago, but they’ve got rampant crime,” Mitchell says. They argue that law abiding citizens living in high-crime areas and elsewhere should be able to carry guns for protection. “The ones that have the guns are the criminals and the bad guys, and we’re at their mercy,” Phelps says.

http://illinoisissues.uis.edu/archives/2012/03/concealedcarry.html

Here Phelps is stating that because we have gun deaths and gun crime, we should be allowed to carry concealed guns...

I will have more for you before the end of the day...

[blueridge3210]

5. And yet, he is not saying this incident would not happen.

Gun control fail. Again.

[mikeysnot]

6. I provided you a link...

Did you read it?

[blueridge3210]

7. Read the article in the link.

Nowhere does Phelps say this kind of incident would not happen if someone else is carrying concealed. Fail again.

[mikeysnot]

10. Fail again

you did...

[Jenoch]

12. Your fail.

The victim in this crime is not eligible to obtain a CCW. Nobody is advocating that underage children should be armed.

[mikeysnot]

18. Lets review shall we.

Gun proliferation nuts point to our "draconian" gun laws and then point to our gun crimes committed with guns as
"proof" that our handgun ban should be removed and allow self proclaimed "law abiding" citizens the right to carry guns, to prevent gun crimes, or so the "argument" goes...

With me so far.

So allowing people to conceal carry, siting the second amendment, even thought he words "conceal" and "carry" DO NOT APPEAR ANY WHERE IN THE AMENDMENT.

The same politicians that are pushing this BS point to our gun crimes as evidence that we need to carry guns. To allow people the right to defend themselves. See were I am going with this... So I snarked that if she only had a gun, this would not have happened...

So I point out the argument for allowing idiots to carry guns in public, that it would NOT PREVENT GUN DEATHS IN MY CITY and point to ALMOST EVERYDAY that concealed carry would not stop ALMOST all of these gun deaths of innocent children, I am accuse of... wait for it...

strawman.

[Jenoch]

22. Your fail, again.

Do you really believe the idiots that shot the gun(s) that night where a stray bullet hit the 11 year-old girl had CCW permits?

[mikeysnot]

30. I like how you point out your own failure.

Do you really think that allowing CCW would prevent this?

[Jenoch]

41. You fail, yet again. Don't you get tired of your failures?

You brought CCW into this story about an 11 year old girl killed by a stray bullet in Chcago. CCW HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS TRAGIC KILLING. Illegal use of firearms is the problem in Chicago. If Emmanual used taxpayers money for law enforcement instead of giving it to the NRA, things might be better in that part of town.

[mikeysnot]

48. Epic fail again...

Obtuse.

The justification for ccw is that it would allow people to defend themselves against crime, They point to our gun crimes as justification for ccw.

I made an accurate observation that NONE of the gun shootings would be prevented with CCW, but yet, you and your posse point to a bunch of parroted BS comments about my city and gun crime, gun crime blah blah.

When gun folk use gun crimes to justify the need for gun protection, you need a gun to protect your self against gun crime.. you lose the argument.

In the reality based world.

When the cost to society far outweigh the benefits, you have to look for more solutions.

BTW, Rahm sucks. We all do not like him. We are trying to get someone to run against him.

[Jenoch]

66. An 11 year old cannot obtain a CCW permit.

[blueridge3210]

40. You seem to have trouble differentiating between a general deterrent and a specific one.

Allowing law-abiding members of the general public to legally carry firearms on their person while in public can act as a general deterrent against criminal activity even if they fail to prevent specific criminal acts. The same concept applies to police crime suppression patrols; no one usually argues that they don't provide a general positive effect even if they don't stop all criminal activity. The incident in the OP was not even a targeted act; it was a stray round from an unrelated act.

Your "snark" was actually an attempt to put words in the mouths of those who endorse public carry by trying to attribute to them a comment that public carry could prevent all crime, which is not what any have said. Therefore your comment was a classic straw man.

[mikeysnot]

45. Law abiding... yeah right...

When you pepper your "argument" with law abiding the rest of us laugh...

They are only "law abiding" until they are not...

Your "snark" was actually an attempt to put words in the mouths of those who endorse public carry by trying to attribute to them a comment that public carry could prevent all crime, which is not what any have said.

You Fail, I just posted a bunch of comments about from gun proponents equating an "armed society is a polite society"... etc.

Of course they do not equate "all" crime would drop. Never said that myself either so your projection of a straw man argument falls back on your plate.

you are either completely oblivious to reality or are being purposely disingenuous.

[blueridge3210]

58. Everyone is law abiding until they are not.

Perhaps you should leave your parent's basement and go back to school.

Your comment was a clear implication that pro-RKBA persons stated that gun ownership would prevent all crime, which no one has said.

[mikeysnot]

51. When the next kid shots his friend, sibling, parent

you can explain to us how the gun owner was a responsible, law abiding citizen...

[NYC_SKP]

59. Obviously the gun owner was not responsible in such a case.

It seems pretty clear.

But because some fools are negligent, you want to take gun rights away from everyone, right?

Not much chance of that happening.

Progress will be made by those on both sides who find common ground.

http://www.theliberalgunclub.com/phpBB3/

[Jenoch]

67. Huh?

Where I live, there is a state law requiring guns in the homes where underage children are living that requires firearms to be locked up, with ammunition locked in a separate location. I happen to have a safe and a separate locker for such items. Why was this post of yours directed at me?

[mikeysnot]

21. Gun crimes in my city...

One day, one night in one city.

Not one of these instances would be prevented by a concealed weapon.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-2-shot-in-washington-park-20140720,0,188534.story

Not one.

[mikeysnot]

8. Another...

YES – Open Carry Deters Crime

Larry Pratt Executive Director of Gun Owners of America


YES – Open Carry Laws Benefit Public Safety

John Pierce Co-founder of OpenCarry.org

YES – An Armed Society is Truly a Polite Society

Jerry Henry Executive Director for GeorgiaCarry.Org


http://www.usnews.com/debate-club/should-people-be-allowed-to-carry-guns-openly

[mikeysnot]

9. From the gun whores mouth...

John Lott, PhD, Visiting Senior Research Scientist at the University of Maryland at College Park, wrote in his 2000 book More Guns, Less Crime: Understanding Crime and Gun-Control Laws:

"Ordinary, law-abiding citizens who own handguns and carry licensed, concealed weapons rarely use their guns except in matters of self-defense. Criminals and those who carry illegal and unlicensed firearms are typically those who commit violent crimes. It is a fact that in communities where citizens have been granted licenses to carry concealed weapons and are not restricted from keeping loaded guns in their homes, crime rates drop. Such conditions have proven to be a deterrent to crimes such as home invasions, burglaries, muggings and car-jackings because criminals will not risk being confronted by a victim's firearm. Tightening laws restricting the use and possession of firearms does not protect average law-abiding citizens; it only puts them at greater risk. Enforcing licensing restrictions, trigger locks, and waiting periods makes it more difficult for law-abiding citizens to defend themselves and as a result encourages criminal activity. Only criminals benefit when ordinary citizens are deprived of their right to own a firearm and protect themselves, their homes, and their families."

How is that one for strawman..

[gejohnston]

11. which has to do with street crime

has nothing to do with being in the crossfire of a couple of drug dealers or gangsters, who are not affected by gun control laws. The victim's parents are affected by IL's firearms licensing and Chicago's Kafkaesque registration scheme that tries to be a defacto ban. The drug dealers and sociopath gangsters that pollute her neighborhood obviously are not any more than the cartels are affected by Mexico's stricter than Australia gun laws.
All the police chief's scream is a cover for his incompetence and his boss' cutting police budgets while pissing money away tilting at wind mills. This year they gave the NRA over $1M.
Chicago is Tammany Hall on steroids when it comes to corruption. Chicago will not do anything, doesn't want to do anything because the city council doesn't care about Shamiya Adams or her parents who pay the taxes. They care about and protect from police the people who but that bullet in her because they keep them in power.

[DonP]

13. I still think the NRA should at least send Rahm a T-shirt and a Life Membeship card

He's written big checks to the NRA for a couple million $ total so far, and didn't even get a lousy T Shirt for it.

Maybe the next batch of checks will put him in line for one.

Keep listening to those "dumass" gun control voices Rahm, you'll show 'em ... one of these days.

He's proven that he and the city council are so stupid that they can't help doing the same thing that doesn't work over and over, so more checks will be coming and more kids will be caught in the cross fire of gangs that can't shoot straight.

At least Capone and Moran tried to keep the civilians out of their cross town squabbles.

[mikeysnot]

15. Gunz save lives!

at least this one luckily survived her second amendment remedy...

http://aattp.org/9-year-old-little-girl-shot-in-crossfire-during-road-rage-incident/

[gejohnston]

16. still under investigation

the media doesn't have or tell the whole story. I seriously doubt this clown would tell the whole story if it conflicted with his narrative. That's why I don't waste my time partisan hacks of any stripe.

[mikeysnot]

19. Guns save lives!

http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/mchenry-woodstock-huntley/chi-wonder-lake-shooting-20140721,0,2479863.story

A McHenry County sheriff's deputy shot and injured a suicidal woman after she emerged from a residence with a .223-caliber assault rifle and pointed it at authorities Sunday, officials announced this monring.

[mikeysnot]

31. This is what has to be repealed

Let the victims of gun crimes sue the manufactureres, hold them accountable along with stratw purchasers, etc.

EXEMPTION FROM TORT LIABILITY

The Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act is also commonly referred to as the "Gun Protection Act." The law dismissed all current claims against gun manufacturers in both federal and state courts and pre-empted future claims. The law could not be clearer in stating its purpose: "To prohibit causes of action against manufacturers, distributors, dealers, and importers of firearms or ammunition products, and their trade associations, for the harm caused solely by the criminal or unlawful misuse of firearm products or ammunition products by others when the product functioned as designed and intended." There are some narrow exceptions for which liability is allowed, such as actions against transferors of firearms who knew the firearm would be used in drug trafficking or a violent crime by a party directly harmed by that conduct.

http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/bush-signed-2005-law-protecting-gun-m

[gejohnston]

36. which would do nothing

How about people stop smoking pot or snorting coke? The average bong owners and coke head is more responsible for gun violence than anyone else. What do you think these shootings are? Olympic target shooters getting drunk? No. They are drug dealers and gangs dealing with business disputes and personnel issues.

You think these people won't get guns? How are those gun bans working out for Jamaica and Mexico? Australia?
The logic of the law is that if someone steals a Ford car and runs over my grandmother, I get to sue Ford. They are and were merit-less lawsuits that operate on the same principle as a SLAPP suit. Most of them were thrown out as meritless, or the company settled because it is cheaper than paying lawyers. The goal, like SLAPP suits, was to drive what are usually small businesses to bankruptcy by the legal fees required to defend from such nonsense. It was a means for a small group of astro turfed ideologues to subvert the democratic process.
What is really needed is work by rational people actually interested in solutions instead of bat shit crazy ideologues pushing their own pet cause.
Unless you are actually interested in rational discussion, please don't waste my time. Irrational nonsense and bullshit will not be answered.

[SQUEE]

37. There are some narrow exceptions for which liability is allowed, such as actions against transferors

of firearms who knew the firearm would be used in drug trafficking or a violent crime by a party directly harmed by that conduct.

...other than that, what grounds would you sue the company on? Manufacturer defect?.. you can. Design flaw? you can.

Otherwise people like MAIG and the Brady Foundation would file frivolous and malicious suits purely to bankrupt gun companies.

[blueridge3210]

38. Which is the same protection enjoyed by any other business.

No other business was ever held civilly liable for damages caused by criminal misuse of their products that were transferred legally in accordance with established law. No one. Ever.

Municipalities and state governments dreamed up the idea of holding firearm manufacturers liable for the actions of criminals; this concept went counter to any prior concept of civil liability in practice at the time. It would be the functional equivalent of holding Ford responsible for damages caused by someone who was DUI; or holding BP responsible for the actions of an arsonist.

[mikeysnot]

53. this made absolutely no sense...

sorry and I had an adult read it to me... so save the snark.

[IronGate]

56. Why wouldn't it make sense?

Eveything said in that post is true, so why the confusion?

[blueridge3210]

57. Then go back to school.

It makes perfect sense if you take your blinders off.

[hack89]

42. You can sue for defective guns.

you can't sue the gun manufacturer if someone uses a gun to commit a crime. Why should you? Sue the person who shot you .

[mikeysnot]

14. Concealed carry epic fail... again.

http://aattp.org/second-amendment-activist-shoots-at-carload-of-children-in-road-rage-incident-video/

[NYC_SKP]

17. "Second Amendment Activist"??? Do journalist just make this shit up?

Apparently, they do.

I saw nothing in that article to indicate that the shooter was anything more than an asshole with a gun and an emotional or mental problem.

I didn't see where he'll be charged, either.

Maybe if the existing laws were enforced we wouldn't have people like this in the streets.

[mikeysnot]

20. What existing laws?

Classic gunner fail... What ever laws we had are attacked by gun nuts and their corporate paymasters...

assholes and guns, they are synonymous...

[Eleanors38]

24. A plate of beans & enchiladas will do that, keysnot!

[mikeysnot]

27. Do what?

[NYC_SKP]

25. "gunner"? So back to the namecalling.... yawn.

There are nuts and assholes on both side of the issue (both sides of most issues, actually).

But the lying and desperation among both gun lovers and gun haters is epic.

[mikeysnot]

26. Gunner?

Really thin skinned...

[Straw Man]

63. Grabber?

Really thin skinned...

Any objections?

[Eleanors38]

23. Reason #1 for gun control: To disarm blacks.

There are neighborhoods in Chicago which are apparently in control of warring gangs, and Chicago's authorities cannot or Will not do anything about it. Perhaps the gangs have more power?

[mikeysnot]

28. Do you live here?

Me thinks not...

[Straw Man]

29. You live there.

Are you saying that there are no gangs? Please enlighten us.

[mikeysnot]

33. Give me something credible to respond to and I will...

and yes, I do.

Not sure where you go that "no gangs" statement from but not me...

[Straw Man]

35. It's very simple.

Eleanors38 said that Chicago has a gang problem and that some neighborhoods are controlled by gangs. You mocked the notion with your "Do you live here?" comment. So I'm asking you about your perception of the gang problem in Chicago, which you are apparently dismissing or downplaying.

[mikeysnot]

50. No mocking...

Just a simple question relevant to the discussion. Sorry if you are sensitive and have you undies in a bundle when asked a simple question.

Your user name is perfect...

not sure why I even bothered with this one...

[IronGate]

60. You say no mocking,

but yet, in the same post.......................................................?

[Straw Man]

61. Oh come on.

Just a simple question relevant to the discussion. Sorry if you are sensitive and have you undies in a bundle when asked a simple question.

How was the "Do you live here?" question relevant to the discussion? You were attempting to discredit that person's assertion, were you not? If not, why were you asking that question, which you then proceeded to snidely answer yourself?

BTW, I'm not the one you were attacking. The only thing I'm sensitive to is bullshit.

[mikeysnot]

52. Straw man, meet

straw man argument...

[Straw Man]

62. Where?

Straw man, meet

straw man argument...

I don't see a straw man argument anywhere. You're not actually trying to pretend that you weren't attacking Eleanors38's assertion, are you? And I notice that you're steadfastly avoiding my question about gangs in Chicago.

[DonP]

32. I do, what's your point?

Do you actually think that you have to live in a city to realize the gangs are all run by Hispanics and A-A?

Based on your "extensive" first person experinece, how many of these shooters do you estimate have FOID cards and CC permits?

Or are you just another ignorant soul that blames Indiana for all the gun crimes in Cook County?

[mikeysnot]

34. Name calling ... check

putting words into my mouth, creating a straw man argument, check....

Sometimes some of the best arguments for gun control come from defenders of gun proliferation...

and yes, I do have "extensive" first person experiences....

[DonP]

39. Can't answer simple questions - check.

The nice part is we can pretty much ignore you and your ilk now. You are irrelevant to any serious discussion on gun control.

Gun control loses, even in the Dem controlled Senate, and the few states that rushed to pass new controls are facing serious court and electoral challenges. You know, court challenges just like we had here in Illinois, where even Madigan couldn't do jack shit about it.

Plus we now have Concealed carry in all 50 states, excuse me "sort of" 51, since Guam removed their CCW ban a few months ago and now it looks like the DC CCW ban is going away too, since the House is pulling the plug on their home grown regulations..

And, with your "extensive first person experience", I'm sure you know that Lisa Madigan announced this AM that the rejected applications for CCW will all be reconsidered. She knows that ass Tom Dart is running up a big legal bill he doesn't have the money to pay.

But maybe you and the "Activism Posse" can contribute to their legal fund. After all, you guys are serious activists right, not just Keyboard Kommandos?

[mikeysnot]

46. Bad job ignoring...

Just curious what is your "extensive first person experience"...

[IronGate]

47. Considering DonP has been extensively active in the IL CCW fight,

I'd say he knows a hell of a lot more about IL's issues with gun control than you do.

[mikeysnot]

49. then you know nothing...

[IronGate]

54. Now there's an intelligent comeback.

[mikeysnot]

55. emoticons...my favorite

it reminds me of children playing with dolls...

[Straw Man]

64. Dodge.

emoticons...my favorite

it reminds me of children playing with dolls...

You still haven't answered the question about your "extensive personal experience." Do you intend to, or are you just going to blow smoke?

[DonP]

65. Let's see ... I'm an Illinois State Police approved CCW instructor ...

That means finger prints and an extended FBI background check. I'm also an approved Range Officer, Basic Pistol, Rifle and First Steps instructor.

I was at the recent Niles zoning board meeting for the new gun store/range in Niles and gave testimony against Mom's Demand Action (they lost) along with about 8 cop and firemen friends and have attended I-GOLD in Springfield for the last 5 years. But I'm sure oyu were there too, right? You're a serious activist for gun control, whatever that means.

Tonight we'll all be at the Niles City Council meeting again at 7 PM to give testimony as well.

I'm sure you'll be there again too, to give testimony and protest the opening of a gun shop and range, right?

Or is your activism limited to just pointless online whining?

I attend every Town Hall meeting in the Chicago suburbs when I'm not working, and give fact based testimony when it's allowed. So I'm sure I'll see you and your group there sooner or later.

I also run an ISP approved 16 hour concealed carry class about every two weeks, of which about 50% are women and 20% of them are Pink Pistol members.

Now please share your extensive credentials with us?

[Eleanors38]

43. Nope. There is history, yours for the reading.

[oneshooter]

44. I guess doxy is going to post and run, just like SM. n/t