"Hero doctor stops hospital shooting rampage"

[DonP]

"Psychiatrist uses his own gun to shoot patient who killed caseworker in front of him"

"A Pennsylvania doctor is being hailed a hero today after he seriously injured a patient who went on a shooting spree in his office.

Dr. Lee Silverman, a psychiatrist, told police that the patient, identified as Richard Plotts, fatally shot a caseworker at their hospital complex before the doctor pulled out his own gun and exchanged fire with him and wounded him, a prosecutor said Thursday night.

Silverman was grazed in the temple during the gunfight in his office, according to Delaware District Attorney Jack Whelan."

Yeadon Police Chief Donald Molineux said that 'without a doubt, I believe the doctor saved lives. Without that firearm, this guy (the patient) could have went out in the hallway and just walked down the offices until he ran out of ammunition,' the chief said.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2704715/Multiple-injuries-reported-shots-fired-Pennsylvania-hospital.html

Somebody needs to e-mail Shannon Watts and tell her to edit her on-air scripts again.

Now let's wait for people to show up and remind us that the "real problem" is that if neither of them had a gun ...

[NYC_SKP]

1. But but but but guns shouldn't be allowed in hospitals!

...and they weren't allowed at this one!

So much for gun free zones.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that if this was a teaching hospital, it'll count as a school shooting to Watts, et al.

And on another limb and say that this looks like "a good guy with a gun...."

K/R

[virginia mountainman]

2. Don't fit the narrative...

So it gets ignored, and denied...

[NaturalHigh]

3. I posted on this in GD.

It didn't get many responses.

[blueridge3210]

4. Quelle suprise.

Controllers don't want to admit that legitimate defensive gun uses occur. Business as usual.

[NaturalHigh]

5. Yeah - I actually saw someone describe GD as "Guns Deplored."

It seems to fit, from what I've seen.

[Duckhunter935]

6. a correct description

it is

[DonP]

7. 3 days later, buried in the B section of the Chicago Tribune

"Mercy Fitzgerald Hospital policy allows only law enforcement personnel to carry weapons on campus, a hospital spokeswoman told the Los Angeles Times. It's unclear why Silverman was armed.

Hospital employees had reported previous incidents between Plotts and hospital staff, although they said they had no indication that he was armed or dangerous when he arrived Thursday, authorities said."

It's unclear why Silverman was armed."?

Really? A shrink, dealing with actively or potentially violent patients in a clinic with poor security and you wonder why he might be carrying?

Oh, that's right, only "paranoid" people carry a firearm in a "safe environment" like a hospital, on the El or pretty much anywhere else in Chicago. Maybe the Doc didn't diagnose his own "insecurity" correctly?

Somebody bookmark this for the next round with grabbers about how "Paranoid" all gun owners are.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/la-na-nn-pennsylvania-hospital-shooting-20140725,0,188466.story

[beevul]

8. Funny how this wasn't google-dumped here by any of the usual suspects.

But it was posted "over there":

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12627084


They want to talk about it all right, they just don't want to talk about it here.


Imagine that.

[DonP]

9. Wow! Only 6 posts to make the doctor the villain! That's a record even for them.

FYI grabber types, I don't know that anybody here is making the shrink a saint, I followed old DU guidelines and used the exact same heading from the newspaper, including the "Hero" reference. LoL, Take it up with the Editor in Chief who approved it and maybe the Chief of Police that called him a hero.

But the focus of our tiny little group of do nothing "activists" seems to be on why the doctor should not have had a gun. I'm sure it will evolve fairly quickly to how the doctor needs to be charged shortly.

No comments on the shooting the case worker in the head and grazing the doctor's head as good motivation for self defense? No grudging admission that a shrink might actually know the potential violence of a patient?

Naah! The doc was just looking for a chance to shoot a patient.

Maybe they would have been happier with the shrink dead and "noble" in his non-violence and a shooting rampage down the hall, as described by the head cop there.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

10. Post #5 is "interesting"

If I read the poster right, the doctor raised an issue with hospital security in the past. His concerns were not addressed so the doctor continued to carry his personal sidearm. He is then confronted by a homicidal and uses that sidearm to defend himself -- and by extension, others in the area -- but the poster is upset and thinks the doctor is wrong for believing his rights to self-defense are being abridged.

Had the doctor actually complied with rules of the hospital then, yes, his rights to self-defense would have been abridged -- and it would have abridged him right into an early grave.

Meanwhile, the regulation worshippers failed to enforce their own regulations to keep a known threat from entering the hospital while armed.

[blueridge3210]

11. Well, I rest easy in the knowledge that "no one wants to take my guns".

[ileus]

12. hopefully some folks are carrying against the rules in our hospitals.

I carry pepper spray which is against the rules but I'm not overly worried. There's 1100 other easy unwilling victims to choose from since the suits have made the decision of personal safety for us.

[virginia mountainman]

13. My wife did for years in her hospital..

She was over the ICU, and ER of the hospital near where I live... They "proposed" putting gun free zone signs up, she and several more members of the staff spoke up in a meeting when it was mentioned, explained the very real "consequences" of such foolishness, and the upper management backed off, when they realized their mistake.

She now works in another segment of the medical field, and she still carries.

[ileus]

14. My wife wrote her clinics no guns policy....

Wrote it because of the never ending list of lawyer and grant BS she has to comply with.


When she held the meeting about the new "no guns" policy she closed it out by stating they wouldn't be searching purses or offices for firearms and non compliance was not a firing offense.

She carries every day.

[jimmy the one]

15. pepperspray

Police Chief said that 'without a doubt, I believe the doctor saved lives. Without that firearm, this guy (the patient) could have went out in the hallway and just walked down the offices until he ran out of ammunition,'

Conjecture, since: Colleagues heard arguing during the appointment and saw Plotts aiming a gun at Silverman when they peaked inside the door. They quietly backed out and called 911. The shooting soon began, just before 2:30 p.m.

They were alerted, enough time to call cops/911, which generally precludes major damage. With 39 unspent bullets not like he was anders breivik with a planned approach at mass killing. Little big man complex?
.. pepperspray or mace would've likely accomplished similar results since the doctor was wounded evidently twice, head & thumb. Luck had to do with it too.

(Silverman) crouched down behind the desk to avoid him being shot," "He was able to reach for his weapon, and realizing it was a life-or-death situation, was able to engage the defendant in the exchange of gunfire."

Plotts wasn't incapped & was able to move about, likely disoriented similar to pepperspray or mace effects. Alternative method of self defence which has far less legal consequences when things aft gang awry (robt burns).

[friendly_iconoclast]

19. Be aware that pepper spray can be ineffective against the drugged/mentally ill

Apparently Dr. Silverman was, while you were not...

[jimmy the one]

16. you. are. lying.

donP: Wow! Only 6 posts {on gun control reform thread} to make the doctor the villain! That's a record even for them.

Who exactly made the psychiatrist doctor a villain?

donP, cont'd: But the focus of our tiny little group of do nothing "activists" seems to be on why the doctor should not have had a gun.

You. Are. Lying. Not one post in that thread contended the doctor should not have had a gun. Here are the particular posts addressing your concern (exerpted):

poster 1 A lot of hospitals have weapons screening by County deputies. I'm surprised he was able to enter a hospital with a gun.
2 they're already elevating that doctor to sainthood status. Good Guy With A Gun, don't ya know......
3 I don't understand why the psychiatrist didn't alert security when he first felt the need to bring a gun, against hospital policy, into the hospital from the beginning. I thought safety overrode HIPPA law. http://www.democraticunderground.com/12627084

There is no 'focus' on why the doctor should not've had a gun. Those are the only 3 posts which addressed the doctor - which one(s) contend that the doctor should not have had a gun? Poster 1 was surprised he could enter with a gun, poster 3 thought security should've been alerted when doc brought the gun in, but there is no dramatic opposition to this.

did you miss this one from the OP starter?: I'm all for the psychiatrist stopping the shooter but a caseworker is dead.

donP:No comments on the shooting the case worker in the head and grazing the doctor's head as good motivation for self defense? No grudging admission that a shrink might actually know the potential violence of a patient? Naah! The doc was just looking for a chance to shoot a patient.

How in the world did you reach this asinine conclusion? Your hyperbole & transmogrification is what should be condemned here, in your very own OP. YOU are the one unfairly making out others to be villains, not them.

donP: Maybe they would have been happier with the shrink dead and "noble" in his non-violence and a shooting rampage down the hall, as described by the head cop there.

Pure unadulterated IDIOCY. Be ashamed of yourself.

[DonP]

17. No shame, now take it elsewhere weasel.

As Shakespeare said about you; "Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing"

We could discuss it in the "Activism" forum, but your fearless leaders banned everybody that matters.

Buh bye!

[jimmy the one]

18. The smallest worm will turn, being trodden on

donP: As Shakespeare said about you; "Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing"

He also said: "The smallest worm will turn, being trodden on".

tho you might've better said: "These words are razors to my wounded heart".

donP: We could discuss it in the "Activism" forum, but your fearless leaders banned everybody that matters. Buh bye!

This is your rebuttal? it's weaker than weak, just ad hominem & deflection onto another subject.

[gejohnston]

20. According to Johnathon Turley

The bad guy had a 1940s era Iver Johnson revolver. The doc had a .32 ACP Seecamp.
http://jonathanturley.org/2014/07/30/pennsylvania-mental-patient-pulls-gun-on-psychiatrist-psychiatrist-then-pulls-his-own-gun-and-shoots-patient/#more-81594

[DonP]

21. I was guessing either a Seecamp or a Kel Tec P32

Not that many reliable semi autos in .32 ACP these days.

Most manufacturers have moved up to .380 for the same concealability and a better load with 95 grain JHP.

Either way, it performed as needed thank heavens, for the doctor and staff at the Clinic and hospital.

My Dad has an old Iver Johnson "5 shot" in S&W .38 that he picked up decades ago for our house, taught Mom to use it in our backyard (farm fields), just in case. Hard to find ammo for it when Dad wants to practice with it.

Still nothing on how a convicted felon got his hands on it I guess? IIRC Pennsylvania has a background check requirement for gun shows and private sales like we have in Illinois. I'll have to check with my brother who lives north of Harrisburg.

Amazing how some people are so very quiet on this one but were all ready to jump on that 86 years old in Crestwood Illinois, ain't it?

[gejohnston]

22. NAA and Beretta\

My FIL carried a Beretta for years. I like the tip barrel, but not the Taurus knock off.