Gun Control & RKBA
Related: About this forumIt's only fair to let you guys have a go at this.
Why do people compare guns to penises? It isn't a simple question and there isn't a simple answer but I'll give it a shot (yeah, that was a pun). Before I wander off into this flamebait fraught topic let me say clearly that I do not believe that ALL gun owners are compensating for anything. There are no absolutes when discussing entire classes of people. That said there are some pretty good examples of overcompensation that even the most ardent gun rights supporter has seen and recognized.
Start with the biological imperative. Females of most species seek a mate that exhibits the epitome of virility and strength. These traits are essential to the preservation of the species as they represent the strongest gene pool. Physical strength also provides protection from predation while she is encumbered with offspring. So, okay, strong and powerful is good. This is also not an absolute; in one species of cuttlefish the small weak male can disguise itself as an immature female and is ignored by the large dominant male while it invades his territory and is rewarded by the female with the opportunity to mate. Seems that intelligence and cunning can also be attractive traits.
Climbing up the evolutionary ladder to humanity some of the biology remains. In Victorian times and up to the 1950s when women were relegated to a secondary roll in society a powerful and successful husband was the key to a happy and safe home life. This is essentially the premise for vampire literature; a handsome wealthy man that is invincible, lives forever and can bestow the same on a mate is the ideal provider for a Victorian woman. Needless to say none of this is still biologically necessary as women have largely come into their own for success in business, politics and equality thanks to the Feminist Movement. I say largely because there is still that 78 cents on the dollar thing and rape culture but that's another flamebait quagmire.
A gun is a symbol of power. Power is symbol of virility ergo a gun is a symbol of sexuality. There are a lot of other symbols as well, the sports car or taking up dangerous hobbies so emblematic of mid life crisis but we're talking about guns here. I'm sure these guys would rather have a Corvette but an AR15 is only about $700 compared to $40k for the car.
The literature of psychology is full of power symbols relating to sexuality. Freud and Jung explored the relationship of weapons to sexuality as evidenced in dreams. Pick up any introduction to Psychology text. But remember what Groucho Marks said, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."
How are guns marketed to men?
As symbols of power:
As symbols of strength and protection.
As things that scantily clad attractive women enjoy fondling.
As things that women use to attract men, presumably powerful men.
And of course this most patent of all pandering to the possibly penis challenged.
?w=466
Now, if any of this offends a gungeon dweller let me repeat; I do not believe that all gun owners have penis deficiencies. I mean what the heck, I own a bunch of guns but I'm not this guy:
But I do owe Kory a note of thanks for singlehandedly defeating Constitutional Carry in Texas.
NoJusticeNoPeace
(5,018 posts)Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)If they cant afford it the US Government should provide for them.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)If you're going to fling a whole two-word insult, you could at least define your target audience.
Sarcastica
(95 posts)Has a limited, and specific use, but although it is not an item to be ashamed of, or immature about, it is also nothing that is particularly glamorous.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)It is all a part of the DU food fights on the topic of guns.
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)There are those who glorify guns, those who think guns are sexy and there are those who recognize them for what they really are, tools that can be devastating for those who own them or come in contact with them.
beemer27
(460 posts)The theory of gun size substituting for penis size is hopefully not true. The last firearm I purchased has a 3 inch barrel. Why do the control crowd obsess with sexual comparisons? There must be something going on with them that we don't know about.
flamin lib
(14,559 posts)It's all there. Not every gun owner is compensating but look at the Psych literature and the way gun makers market their product and it's obvious that SOMEBODY is compensating for something.
Gun marketing is about power, power can be a substitute for sexual virility. If that's not you, okay, but see it for what it is.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)DonP
(6,185 posts)They collect the pictures like baseball card and save them on their hard drive, like the OP and the family album our sole banned DU member has filled his hard drive that he posts at any vague opportunity.
They seem to start to get all excited online and breathe heavy when they come up with an excuse to Google "Guns and Girls" pix or "Redneck with a Rifle".
Anybody ever see a pro 2nd poster doing this? Anywhere?
If we did, we'd probably all stop buying 1 and 3/4 inch Snubbies and all move up to 1911 Long Slides, S&W 686's or Buntline Specials. Harder to conceal, but still cheaper than therapy sessions every week to find out why some people are penis obsessed.
I'm guessing there's far more projection than insight involved on this for the gun control "fans".
beevul
(12,194 posts)Here on DU?
Because they can do so without fear of consequence, due to it being an accepted form of sexism and bigotry.
In kind of in the same way...and by the same people...that openly support bloombergs astroturf groups, in spite of his racist remarks about minorities and his groups inclusion of one of the terrorist boston bombers as a "victim of gun violence".
Its been going on for years, decades even, but it is in large part, responsible for the numerous victories the anti-gun crowd has won.
I say "Onward, anti-gun soldier".
ileus
(15,396 posts)sarisataka
(18,654 posts)immaturity.
It titillates a receptive audience to conflate guns and sex as a compensating thing- if a person views guns negatively, or as a proof of manhood- if the view is positive. In both cases the relationship between gun ownership and any sexual trait is approximately equal to zero.
As for why are scantily clad women used in firearms ads- simple, sex sells. It is an old and well known/used maxim.
A body wash is only going to lead to orgasm if the cleaning is focused
Will you become a supermodel/have a relationship with one if you are a vegetarian
Or perhaps meat will... nevermind, it's pretty self explanatory
Although there is a trend beginning to equalize exploitation
Some are blatantly honest
But it is not new
If only they knew how much farther it would go
And yes, if anybody should get on a gun control payroll it is Kory...
beevul
(12,194 posts)Temper tantrums and name calling are typical in children that don't get their way, or are told "No".
Most but apparently not all children grow out of it, as we see almost daily.
DonP
(6,185 posts)So, another of their more reliable posters winds up making his graffiti marks on a wall that no one sees and comes here with his chalk, instead of in the Safe Haven.
That brings Bansalot down to about what, 2 regular posters and a host?
With the host now begging the "taking my stuff and going home" one to "come back, all is forgiven".
This show is much better than the Novellas, but the costumes aren't nearly as good.
oneshooter
(8,614 posts)And spreads his fecal matter around here, then runs away to his "safe haven" aka Castle BansaLot, and cries that he was again abused here.
Personally i would rather he stay safe in his haven, and bother us no more.
Response to DonP (Reply #12)
Post removed
DonP
(6,185 posts)And was going to; "ask him to return with a PM", that post?
So now, pointing out the obvious is a smear?
That's hysterically funny coming from you and your posse with your track record of blatant rudeness.
Sounds like regret and asking him to return with no conditions and all his evil, hateful bile intact to me.
Well, to me and several other posters, who in PMs also thought it was pretty funny that you couldn't afford to lose even a single regular poster, no matter how vicious and bullying they became and no matter how much he ignored you and your attempts at guidance as the host.
But every host sets and is responsible for enforcing their own standards for their group. And you certainly have.
DonP
(6,185 posts)Hmmm, get caught playing games, lose your temper, and buh bye.
Glad people that can't seem to control themselves don't carry concealed weapons.
In other news, while the "activists" have been busy doing something or other, it looks like Kansas is going Constitutional and Campus Carry this week.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)So now he is accusing DU members here of having multiple accounts. This without any proof but I guess it is OK for that host to post the accusation in his group where he is quite sure it will not be challenged as they require a "safe haven" to limit speach unlike this group.
DonP
(6,185 posts)Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)don't call people assholes and maybe you would not be hidden 5-2
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12628570
DonP
(6,185 posts)... for being rude.
More posters to hold his hand and reassure him he's needed than ever to support gun control.
And they'll be gone in a day or two.
Ha!
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)Very true.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)well at least in that post that is just so smoking hot over in "bansalot" And of course we are all right wing trolls, no insult there, right?
Bjorn Against
That group is filled with right-wing trolls, don't let them get to you
There is one in particular that I have noticed loves to harrass the hosts of this group every chance he gets, he loves to lecture about politeness while being completely oblivious to the fact that his constant harassment is anything but polite. I have seen him jump on you multiple times over an alert he had against himself, and he constantly harrassed Secular Motion demanding he "discuss" with people who clearly just wanted to tear him down.
Why the admins allow people like this to harrass good standing members of this site like he does I will never understand, there are several people in that group who should have gotten the boot long ago.
Asking a person to answer a question is harassment now?
Simple fix, answer the fricking question
So is asking a host to follow the group SOP?
Simple fix, Follow the frickin SOP
Who knew, the humanity.
beevul
(12,194 posts)Funny how neither him or his colleagues ever chimed in about loudly/sharesunited.
One of the most, if not the single most, obvious retread to ever be seen on DU.
Evidence was provided and presented numerous times in numerous forums, and yet all we heard from the usual suspects is:
DonP
(6,185 posts)Don't want to say who quite yet.
But he's incapable of being subtle and controlling his ego to preserve the illusion.
So it's only a matter of time before he gives himself away.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)In the Gungeon, they'll find a reason to alert unless you are a gun fancier.
They are sensitive folks and protect their gun love.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12628570#post20
All they have are insults to firearms owners and the host shows his approval by not moderating comments like those.
DonP
(6,185 posts)With Krispos even temper and our SoP, that takes some hard work.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)Place to hold. This group host should indeed be thanked. 👏
DonP
(6,185 posts)Check out the "whine list" in Bansalot about the hide in this thread.
With the longest thread in Bansalot history, about a hide, the host was just slapped on the wrist this AM by Skinner for misrepresenting why he got hidden.
"It's a Fair Cop", as Monty Python might say.
blueridge3210
(1,401 posts)Certain people will continue to play silly word games to justify their hatred and intolerance towards "the other". Business as usual.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)Skinner has spoken.
DonP
(6,185 posts)And if he does, it's usually in the ATA area.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)http://www.democraticunderground.com/12628570#post25
oneshooter
(8,614 posts)Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)And it seems pretty clear that that host has insulted me in an alert against me. He has never stated he has not written that alert even after being asked several times.
so far you have not answered and seem to be afraid to take credit or disavow it was you. So was it you? yes or no?
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Calling out the host (EM) of a safe haven group (GCRA) that this person (duckhunter) has long been blocked from (gun nuts not allowed), for something not even written by that host. Hosts aren't responsible for everything posted by other members. This arrogant gun nut needs to be reminded what website they are on, and they are not on ar15.com.
Intentionally rude, hurtful, inappropriate = hide.
Sure coincidence on the ar-15.com reference right?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=163898
So here is another simple question. Do you think it is right to post an insult to a DU member in an alert on a post?
* NOTE TO JURORS since I feel this will be alerted on.
The host in question could have easily stated it was not his alert, however he refuses to do so. By using the similarity of his posts and the reference to ar-15.com, I am about 95% sure the alert is from him and the insult in that alert is directed right at me.
F that host states it was not him I will apologize.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)Last edited Thu Mar 26, 2015, 07:54 PM - Edit history (1)
and should have left that over the top insult stay instead of moderating the comments of that group.
It is hard to have 30% of his posters get mad and go to his room with a sad.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)It will be interesting to see how penises enter into their enjoyment of shooting.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,479 posts)How about anyone that just can't seem to restrain themselves from a generally untrue, somewhat offensive, outside the actual SoP of the group reference(s) just to fit in their own quip, which doesn't have nearly the same attention getting effect for those class clowns among us, how about those folks just start their OP title with *PENIS*?
This seems like a great way for ATTRACTING-ATTENTION-TO-YOURSELF. (r)George Carlin
Said class clowns can then add their two cents with or without the typical cartoon, reference, joke, link, etc. This may save some folks quite a bit of time searching for 'google: nasty gun penis cartoon' and such.
petronius
(26,602 posts)so forth, do so to be insulting (and in a sexist way, to boot). You've built a complicated argument to rationalize and justify this childish behavior, but you're pinning the tail on the wrong donkey: the insults and euphemisms are not based on any sexual compensation from gun owners, or in any psycho-sexual critique of gun (or any other) marketing, but simply on a desire to fling insults...
flamin lib
(14,559 posts)Firearms because advertising features them is self evident. Like it or not the gun industry has the potential buyer very well identified. They got your number.
petronius
(26,602 posts)two issues in an effort to rationalize sexist slurs...
flamin lib
(14,559 posts)Guns are a symbol of power. Power is a symbol of virility. Ergo guns are a symbol of virility. Not the only symbol but the one suitable for this venue.
The fact that gun manufacturers capitalize on that meme so successfully is testimony that somebody out there is motivated by "guns make me powerful and therefore sexy". If it was all self defense without the semi nude sexy innuendo you might have a point.
petronius
(26,602 posts)What people, specifically, were you referring to there?
flamin lib
(14,559 posts)petronius
(26,602 posts)flamin lib
(14,559 posts)So I guess you just have to play by yourself.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)Seems to be trending. That and not being able ta answer questions.
petronius
(26,602 posts)is a "game."
I thought my last post was a good question to bring the discussion back on track: the OP states that "people compare guns to penises" and it would be worthwhile to know specifically which people and which comparisons he was referring to. All the overt gun=penis references I have seen are from anti-gun types attempting a base and sexist insult, and have nothing to do with the behavior of gun owners or the marketing of guns.
There's a lot of tangential discussion here about sex in advertising, but it's a huge leap and a red herring to conflate that advertising with the gun/penis snark - two topics entirely, and the advertising does not explain, cause, represent, or justify the sexist 'teeny-peeny' snark...
(If the OP intended to limit the focus only to sex-centric advertising, that intent certainly wasn't clear. And I don't think sexualized advertising of guns is any more equivalent to 'comparing guns to penises' than sexualized Burger King advertising is making a burger=penis linkage.)
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)that when called out on posts or even when asked to answer a simple question, the "anti-gun types" tend to run away and disappear or maybe post some insults over in "bansalot"
DonP
(6,185 posts)But they're not, they are a total joke, but not quite as funny as Don Knott's in "The gang that can't shoot straight".
Mayors Against Illegal Guns MAIG; littered with criminals; including pedophiles, embezzlers and frauds. Let it quietly go away and hope no one notices that more than half their membership is either up the river, out of office or quitting because you lied to them about the organization.
So get out the checkbook and re-invent it as Everytown for Gun Safety, except there is no safety element included. Kick it off with a high profile bus tour to spread the word, using all those poor gun victims. Hire half wits to compile the list and they use criminals and terrorists shot by police, including the Boston Bomber, as victims of "Gun Violence".
Then. find an out of work PR flack, that spent the last 5 years at Monsanto trying to tell America that GMOs are good for your kids and hire her to start a fully bought and paid for "Grass Roots" movement. "Mom's Demand Action For Gun Sense in America" that can't get Kroger, Starbuck's or any other major company to ban guns. Hell, the CEO of Staples had them escorted off the property by security. They are just a frickin' juggernaut of effectiveness. I've dealt with a few at local town meetings on new gun ranges. No facts, no background, no speaking skills. That's a great investment for Bloomie.
Those hypocrites even show up for their "rallies" with armed guards, for Shannon only of course. Never mind the other handful of "moms" who show up. Gotta protect the Bloomberg investment, and everyone know what a threat those law abiding gun owners are, especially when they're laughing their ass off watching all 5 of the paid demonstrators with pre-printed signs.
$50 million bucks and gun control can't even get a newsletter out or hold a press event without screwing it up. Yeah, the NRA probably lays awake nights ... wondering how to leverage the next gun control screw up for another 100,000 members or so.
Oh those gun ads usually only show up in outdoor and gun related magazines. Funny that the gun control people know all about them and we never see them here in the Gungeon.
Do you keep those in the same scrapbook with your family album pictures you post here too?
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)they must have whole collections so they can post them.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)MicaelS
(8,747 posts)An entire class of people. We use sex, and sexually loaded terms (yes I meant to use that phrase) to denigrate others. It happens right across the political spectrum.
And sex has been used to sell as long as advertising has existed.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)in the other group, which shows to be slightly more childish than here.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12628563
superiority and ego stroking they can not possibly obtain any other way?
Embrace the hot metal, gun lovers!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12628563#post1
ileus
(15,396 posts)against the proper group. The folks that spew this are just like our neighborhood freepers, if your argument doesn't hold water they have to sling mud.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Not all pro-RKBA'ers are unattractive. Maybe some are but I'm sure attractive, sexually confident men support the 2A. Perhaps attractive, sexually confident women do as well. Your post demonstrates confirmation bias more than an honest survey of the people who exercise their inherent rights to self-defense.
It's an odd tactic and one that bears an odious whiff of body-shaming and slut-shaming.
Even odder is the back-handed, probably unwitting, statement that anti-self defense advocates don't make the best breeding stock, aren't likely to protect their families and have resigned themselves and their loved ones to whatever fate malicious people would bestow upon them.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)I prefer the Weaver stance myself. Unless the photo is showing the "hiding under a desk while shooting terrorists" stance.
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)It shouldn't be to hard...er difficult...to confirm it as fact or derail it as myth. Someone must have looked into this.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)If the anti-gun crowd answers at all, it's usually something along the lines of "derp."