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Mon Sep 26, 2016, 09:18 PM

The FBI just released the murder stats for 2015.

I posted these stats in GD since the report came out today, but I think it'd be a good topic for more extensive discussion here.

The link (FBI): Murder, by State, Types of Weapons, 2015

[font face="courier new"]Total murders...................... 13,455
Handguns............................ 6,447 (47.9%)
Firearms (type unknown)............. 2,648 (19.7%)
Clubs, rope, fire, etc.............. 1,671 (12.4%)
Knives and other cutting weapons.... 1,544 (11.5%)
Hands, fists, feet.................... 624 (4.6%)
Shotguns.............................. 269 (2.0%)
Rifles................................ 252 (1.9%) [/font]

Total murders were up in a few large cities, with Chicago accounting for a good portion of the increase, per news reports. The rate in most of the nation was more or less unchanged. That link breaks it down by state and type of weapon, but you can download it in Excel and sum the columns. The above stats include the U.S. Virgin Islands and Guam.

Looking only at murders committed using firearms, handguns accounted for 92.52%, shotguns 3.86%, and rifles (including "assault weapons" 3.62%. If you extrapolate "Firearm - Type Unknown" by those percentages and re-run the totals, the stats would be as follows:

[font face="courier new"]Total murders...................... 13,455
Handguns............................ 8,897 (66.1%)
Clubs, rope, fire, etc.............. 1,671 (12.4%)
Knives and other cutting weapons.... 1,544 (11.5%)
Hands, fists, feet.................... 624 (4.6%)
Shotguns.............................. 371 (2.8%)
Rifles................................ 348 (2.6%) [/font]

I didn't mention this in the GD post, but I think this shows the falsehood of the ZOMG RIFLEZ ARE WMDS!!!!! scaremongering (homicide was up, but rifle murder is still at historic lows), and also points out the utter futility of trying to address homicide by legislating the shape of rifle handgrips (which doesn't affect lethality in the slightest). All but 8 states had either 0 rifle murders or were in the single digits.

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Response to benEzra (Original post)

Tue Sep 27, 2016, 12:37 AM

1. Oddly enough, I can carry a gun, but not a stun gun, a baton, a club, as these are too dangerous

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Response to Midnight Writer (Reply #1)

Tue Sep 27, 2016, 05:57 AM

3. What state do you live in? Some states require a carry license for stun guns.

In my state (NC), I'm pretty sure less-lethal weapons like stun guns are certainly allowed with a carry license, and you don't even need a license for pepper spray or a heavy cane (though be aware that swinging a club willy-nilly can rise to the level of deadly force). I'm not really up on my Tazer laws because I carry a Kimber pepper spray in that role.

If your state's carry and licensure rules prohibit stun guns and pepper spray, you should work to get them changed. Some jurisdictions that are paranoid about weapons in the hands of noncriminals do ban them (Massachusetts and possibly New Jersey treated pepper sprays as firearms for a long time, and may still) but most of free America doesn't, that I'm aware. Some do require licensure, though, so check your state laws.

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Response to benEzra (Original post)

Tue Sep 27, 2016, 02:29 AM

2. Great post as always Ben!

Facts are almost unknown to some in this debate...You always provide!

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Response to benEzra (Original post)

Tue Sep 27, 2016, 11:59 AM

4. Hmmm, more inconvenient truths for the "Factose Intolerant"

 

But they all know better, just more doctored numbers from the NRA shills at the FBI.

Thanks Ben.

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Response to benEzra (Original post)

Tue Sep 27, 2016, 03:09 PM

5. I join in with my thanks for this data!

 

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Response to benEzra (Original post)

Tue Sep 27, 2016, 03:31 PM

6. Here's another inconvenient truth about murder rates and the AWB ban of 1994-2004:

 

Go to the following page:
Select a. "United States Total, b. "Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, and
c. Years "1995 through 2004"

http://www.ucrdatatool.gov/Search/Crime/State/RunCrimeTrendsInOneVar.cfm


You will get the following:

Year United States-Total

1995 21,606
1996 19,645
1997 18,208
1998 16,974
1999 15,522
2000 15,586
2001 16,037
2002 16,229
2003 16,528
2004 16,148


https://www.google.com/search?q=population+united+states+1995&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

266.3 million

Sources include: United States Census Bureau, World Bank


http://www.census.gov/popclock/


The United States population on January 1, 2016 was: 322,761,807




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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #6)

Wed Sep 28, 2016, 12:37 PM

7. bravo icon

icon: Here's another inconvenient truth about murder rates and the AWB ban of 1994-2004
Go to the following page: Select a. "United States Total, b. "Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, and
c. Years "1995 through 2004"


Wondering about icon today. He titles his post using 'murder RATES', then posts a listing of murder TOTALS, as well as a link to the population census. He doesnt seem to know what to do with these two tables, to get an actual rate.
You don't have a calculator icon? they sell adequate cheap ones at the dollar stores you know.
Or do what I do, just google online calculator & voila.

So, I guess this following is icon's 'inconvenient truth'; and I just list the start year & end year, since with the figures icon provides the rate will generally steadily decline within what I post:

year ... total murder/nnMS ..... population .... RATE per million
1995: ........ 21,606 .................. 266 mill ........ 81.23
2004: ........ 16,148 .................. 293 mill ........ 55.11

So icon does a fine job, despite needing old reliable book 'statistics for dummies', in showing that while the assault weapons ban was in effect 1995 - 2004, murder & non negligible manslaughter rates declined by 32%.

It should also be noted that the assault weapon ban should not be given full credit for this decline, as the percentage of gun owners in the country also declined by about 35%, during the period ~1992 thru 2000 (lower the gun owner rate, lower the violent crime rate). And the Clinton anti crime initiative is in there too.

Bravo, icon, you friendly today.

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Response to jimmy the one (Reply #7)

Wed Sep 28, 2016, 01:58 PM

9. Considering the AW "Ban" did no such thing as the sale of semi-automatic rifles skyrocketed

the AWB should get no credit at all.

Lets not forget that Adam Lanza's rifle was perfectly legal under the 1994 AWB. It was also perfectly legal under CT's much stricter AWB.

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Response to jimmy the one (Reply #7)

Thu Sep 29, 2016, 02:21 PM

11. The murder rate declined a further 9% *after* the 'ban' was lifted, so your claim is nonsense

 

As you noted, it was 55.1 per million in 2004- but dropped to 49/million last year

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Response to benEzra (Original post)

Wed Sep 28, 2016, 01:55 PM

8. more chicago guns since 2011, mcdonald trumped

ezra: Total murders were up in a few large cities, with Chicago accounting for a good portion of the increase, per news reports.

Lifting the handgun ban in chicago in 2011 sure has worked wonders in reducing the murder & rate there, hasn't it?
Since you are referring to 2015 stats, you are speaking of an increase from 2014 to 2015, where chicago had an increase of 58 murders, and giving it a 17.2/100k homicide rate. 2014: 432 2015: 488 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Chicago
(wapo link below) analysis of preliminary crime data found that about 770 more people were killed in major cities last year {2015} than the year before,
58 out of 770 isn't that 'good a portion', as you said, just 7.5%. Chicago always seems more violent since it has near 3 million people, but when one compares rates, the more valid method of comparison, there are far worse cities than chicago, crime wise.

But it's actually a mixed bag. Chicago homicide thru the years. Don't 'trump' it up.


Here's a clever graph(s) which shows about a dozen cities with higher homicide rates than chicago in 2015, with about half being pro gun cities. Also (the first graph, there are two) note that there are ~24 cities which had GREATER increases in homicide rates than chicago in 2015: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/2015-homicides/
The biggest spikes came in baltimore & pro gun st louis: There has been a spike in murder rates in a quarter of the largest cities in the U.S. with particular spikes in St. Louis and Baltimore. New York Times information on 2015 murder rates..

Wow. Look at all the pro gun cities in this one:
<img style="-webkit-user-select: none" src="">

2014 ..........pop ...... violcrrate.. murderrate
Chicago .......2,724,121.. 884.. 15.1 {murd rate also spiked 2016}
Houston ........2,219,933.. 991.. 10.9
Memphis........... 654,92.. 1,740.. 21.4
Kansas City.......468,417.. 1,251.. 16.7
St. Louis ....... 318,574.. 1,678.. 49.9
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate_(2014)

A blast from jimmy's past. Compare. Contrast. Discuss.:
..all rates, 2012...pop ..... violcr... murder... property
Gun control cities
Los Angeles 3,855,122 ....... 481 ....7.8 ......2,269 (+~14%vcr,2014)
Baltimore 625,474 .........1,405 ......35 ..... 4,660
New York 8,289,415 .........639 ...... 5.1 ....1,722 (still safest >500k population)
Chicago 2,708,382 .....N/A {~900?} ...18.3 ... 4,152 (handguns ok 2011)

Pro gun cities:
Tenn Memphis 657,436 .......1,750 ....20.2 ....6,312
Dallas 1,241,549 ..................675 .....12.4 ...4,373
Houston 2,177,273 ...............992 .....10.0 ...4,945
Kansas City 464,073 ...........1,263 ......22 ....5,525
Nashville 620,886 ..............1,216 .....10.0.....4,195
St. Louis 318,667 ..............1,776 ......35 .....6,902 (siccw 2005)
Detroit 707,096 .................2,122 ......54 ....5,792 (siccw 2002, leans gun)
New Orleans 362,874............815 .......53 .....3,772
Oklahoma City 595,607 ........919 ......14.3 .... 5,941.8

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate_(2012)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=190723

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Response to jimmy the one (Reply #8)

Wed Sep 28, 2016, 02:10 PM

10. Any large city with a lot of drug gangs is by definition a "pro-gun" city

or at least certain neighborhoods are.

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