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Sun Aug 11, 2019, 08:37 PM

As a collector of older rifles I have a question for the group.

Many of my long arms are pre 1900 Winchesters ans Marlins, all lever actions. Many have 12-24 round tube magazines on them. These are 100+ year old rifles. The question I have is what happens to the tube magazine if there are restrictions to 10 round or less? Will I, and others be forced to cut the mags off, or disable the rifle?

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Arrow 59 replies Author Time Post
Reply As a collector of older rifles I have a question for the group. (Original post)
oneshooter Aug 2019 OP
GP6971 Aug 2019 #1
ManiacJoe Aug 2019 #16
EndGOPPropaganda Aug 2019 #2
Straw Man Aug 2019 #7
EndGOPPropaganda Aug 2019 #15
Straw Man Aug 2019 #18
EndGOPPropaganda Aug 2019 #20
Straw Man Aug 2019 #22
friendly_iconoclast Aug 2019 #23
EndGOPPropaganda Aug 2019 #29
Straw Man Aug 2019 #31
EndGOPPropaganda Aug 2019 #32
friendly_iconoclast Aug 2019 #33
Straw Man Aug 2019 #34
yagotme Sep 7 #49
Straw Man Sep 7 #51
yagotme Sep 7 #53
Buzz cook Aug 22 #39
Straw Man Aug 23 #40
Buzz cook Aug 23 #41
Straw Man Aug 23 #42
Buzz cook Aug 28 #43
Straw Man Aug 28 #44
yagotme Sep 7 #50
friendly_iconoclast Aug 2019 #24
Straw Man Aug 2019 #19
friendly_iconoclast Aug 2019 #21
IADEMO2004 Aug 2019 #3
bottomofthehill Aug 2019 #4
Straw Man Aug 2019 #5
JustABozoOnThisBus Aug 2019 #6
krispos42 Aug 2019 #8
discntnt_irny_srcsm Aug 2019 #9
krispos42 Aug 2019 #10
discntnt_irny_srcsm Aug 2019 #13
sarisataka Aug 2019 #11
krispos42 Aug 2019 #30
Alea Aug 2019 #12
discntnt_irny_srcsm Aug 2019 #14
Alea Aug 2019 #17
The Mouth Aug 21 #35
discntnt_irny_srcsm Aug 21 #36
The Mouth Aug 21 #37
discntnt_irny_srcsm Aug 21 #38
oneshooter Aug 2019 #25
comradebillyboy Aug 2019 #26
flotsam Aug 2019 #27
gejohnston Aug 2019 #28
samir.g Aug 29 #45
Straw Man Aug 31 #47
aikoaiko Aug 30 #46
micDROP Sep 2 #48
Cartoonist Sep 7 #52
Alea Sep 7 #57
Cartoonist Sep 7 #58
Historic NY Sep 7 #54
Alea Sep 7 #56
yagotme Sep 7 #59
The Mouth Sep 7 #55

Response to oneshooter (Original post)

Sun Aug 11, 2019, 08:40 PM

1. Don't know...

Maybe plugs?

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Response to GP6971 (Reply #1)

Mon Aug 12, 2019, 11:34 PM

16. Plugs would be the logical answer

As that is what the current state hunting laws normally prescribe.

But then, logic and legislation don't always play well together.

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Response to oneshooter (Original post)

Sun Aug 11, 2019, 08:46 PM

2. Hopefully the law passed will be a ban on many semiautos.

I think we’d all be pretty happy with Canada’s gun laws.

There, most variants of semi-auto long gun are restricted or prohibited and have constraints on magazine size if allowed. Lever actions are allowed with any size magazine.

That seems like a reasonable law and one we should advocate for.

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Response to EndGOPPropaganda (Reply #2)

Mon Aug 12, 2019, 04:55 PM

7. No one yet knows what the law will contain.

NY's law does not exempt lever actions, or pump actions, or bolt actions. It does not exempt non-removable magazines. The only exemption is tubular magazines for .22 rimfire. IMO, NY's SAFE Act is not "a reasonable law." I would hope that the federal law does not similarly overreach.

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Response to Straw Man (Reply #7)

Mon Aug 12, 2019, 10:48 PM

15. When gun people get kids killed, it's hard to complain much though.

I know some laws will impact your life, but people who support guns or the NRA in any way helped get this little girl killed.




Lay down with dogs, get fleas. Few Americans who know what's going on with the NRA are now going to be swayed by arguments about "reasonable gun laws". People who love guns should have thought of that before deciding they loved guns more than they love kids.

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Response to EndGOPPropaganda (Reply #15)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 03:28 AM

18. So we can list you as "in favor of unreasonable gun laws," then?

"People who support guns in any way" get kids killed? That's a ridiculously broad brush and a bullshit charge. It's the kind of extremism that drives rural moderates into the arms of the Republican Party. And no, by the way, it doesn't save any kids. Not a single one.

Nobody "love[s] guns more than they love kids." Spare us the virtue signaling, and never, ever, whine about the unwillingness of gun owners to compromise. That would be hypocrisy of the rankest sort.

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Response to Straw Man (Reply #18)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 07:17 PM

20. List me in favor of "No more school kids shot dead"

“No more screwing up our children with active shooter drills because NRA wants to make money and GOP donors want votes for tax cuts.”

I’ll own that.
I stand with that.

Will you own the deaths of schoolkids if you’ve ever donated to the NRA directly or by buying guns or ammo from a company that does donate to the NRA?

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Response to EndGOPPropaganda (Reply #20)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 01:04 AM

22. How many have been shot dead with tube-fed lever action rifles?

Last edited Thu Aug 15, 2019, 02:13 AM - Edit history (1)

That's the part of the law I'm calling unreasonable.

Will you own the deaths of schoolkids if you’ve ever donated to the NRA directly or by buying guns or ammo from a company that does donate to the NRA?

No. I won't. As I've said before, it's a bullshit charge. Should weed smokers own the deaths of those murdered by the cartels? Should everybody who has taken a sip of alcohol own the death toll that drunken drivers inflict on the public? Bullshit.

Every single gun and ammo manufacturer has donated to the NRA because it's a lobbying group that represents their interests. Making the NRA the boogeyman isn't going to save one single kid. Not one. If anything, gun-control overreach and overblown rhetoric have sold more AR-15s than all the efforts of the NRA and gun manufacturers combined. Your wedge issue isn't saving lives.

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Response to Straw Man (Reply #22)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 09:33 AM

23. There are several reasons why controllers like to go with the "collective guilt-tripping" schtick

*They get to feel all self-righteous and morally superior to "those people"

*It's a handy virtue signal

And probably most important:

*It leaves them feeling like they've Done Something, when in reality all they've done is put wear on a keyboard...

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Response to Straw Man (Reply #22)

Sat Aug 17, 2019, 06:50 AM

29. Do alcohol cos take massive donations to advocate for Republicans via alcohol identity politics?

No, they don’t.

The difference is that the NRA has been taken over by Republican donors FOR POLITICAL ENDS.

That’s why the NRA is a terrorist organization.
And that’s why if you buy guns or ammo you are complicit in kids’ deaths. Because you support a political terror organization that supports kid deaths to get Republicans elected to office.

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Response to EndGOPPropaganda (Reply #29)

Sun Aug 18, 2019, 01:23 AM

31. Start talking about bringing back Prohibition ...

... and see how politically active alcohol producers get.

So donating money for political ends is now called terrorism? You missed the part about advocating violence to achieve those aims. Hyperbole is not your friend.

You want Canadian gun laws, yet people could still be killed with the guns that Canadian law allows. Would you not, then, by your own definition, also be a terrorist?

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Response to Straw Man (Reply #31)

Sun Aug 18, 2019, 06:46 AM

32. Do alcohol cos take massive donations to advocate for Republicans via alcohol identity politics?

In failing to respond to your assertion, you’ve made my point clear: the NRA functions as a terrorist organization. And alcohol companies do not.

Thank you for confirming that.



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Response to EndGOPPropaganda (Reply #32)

Sun Aug 18, 2019, 04:55 PM

33. The onus is on *you* to prove your argument, not others to refute it to your specifications.

And so far, all you have is repeated assertion.

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Response to EndGOPPropaganda (Reply #32)

Sun Aug 18, 2019, 08:37 PM

34. Perhaps you missed my point.

If there were an active movement to reinstate Prohibition -- comparable to the current active movement to implement much greater gun control measures -- the alcohol companies would take massive donations to advocate for whichever party seemed favorable to their industry, via "alcohol identity politics" (whatever that means) or whatever politics they could find that would further their business interests.

Is that clear enough for you?

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Response to Straw Man (Reply #34)

Sat Sep 7, 2019, 10:51 AM

49. It will be ever-clear for me,

with perhaps a bit of butterscotch flavoring...

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Response to yagotme (Reply #49)

Sat Sep 7, 2019, 11:54 AM

51. I see what you did there.

But butterscotch?

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Response to Straw Man (Reply #51)

Sat Sep 7, 2019, 12:32 PM

53. Yep.

Vacationed in TN this year, bought some butterscotch everclear. Goes down smoooootttthhhhhh.

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Response to Straw Man (Reply #22)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 06:42 PM

39. "Should weed smokers own the deaths of those murdered by the cartels? "

Yes they should. If they buy marijuana illegally they are financing the men who control growth and distribution. Those men use deadly violence to maintain and extent their control. If marijuana users restricted themselves to legal or home grown products that would mean there would be no money going to the marijuana cartels and no reason for them to use violence.

This is pretty much econ 101 supply and demand.

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Response to Buzz cook (Reply #39)

Fri Aug 23, 2019, 04:36 AM

40. Fair enough.

By that logic, then, gun owners who restrict themselves to legally purchased or homemade firearms should also be left in peace.

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Response to Straw Man (Reply #40)

Fri Aug 23, 2019, 05:16 AM

41. Nope logic fail there

Because A therefore B is not a logical argument.

Nowhere in the supply and demand argument does it state how marijuana users should be treated.

You're trying to be clever.

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Response to Buzz cook (Reply #41)

Fri Aug 23, 2019, 01:14 PM

42. "Left in peace" equals "not own the deaths"

I thought that much was self-evident. Apparently it wasn't.

Perception fail.

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Response to Straw Man (Reply #42)

Wed Aug 28, 2019, 05:35 PM

43. You're kidding

Given how contentious this subject is do you really expect me to believe you simply misspoke?

You made a bad analogy. You made a poor inference from my response. Own it.

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Response to Buzz cook (Reply #43)

Wed Aug 28, 2019, 06:01 PM

44. No, I'm not kidding.

If in the context of this argument you didn't understand that "gun owners should be left in peace" was equivalent to "gun owners should not be expected to own the actions of killers," that's on you.

You don't want to blame legal/ethical weed smokers for the bad acts of drug cartels. I don't want to blame legal/ethical gun owners for the bad acts of spree killers. What's so hard to understand about that?

I did not misspeak. You failed to understand a simple and obvious parallel. That's on you.

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Response to Buzz cook (Reply #39)

Sat Sep 7, 2019, 10:56 AM

50. My firearms were purchased legally,

background check, waiting period, etc. They have not committed any murders, mass or otherwise. Nor have they been violent. (Well, some of the big boys recoil a good bit.) Therefore, I should be able to keep them, right?

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Response to EndGOPPropaganda (Reply #20)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 09:37 AM

24. I must say, you've certainly signalled your virtues in this thread

The question remains: What else have you done, aside from putting wear on a text input device?

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Response to EndGOPPropaganda (Reply #2)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 03:38 AM

19. Canada's gun laws?

I think we’d all be pretty happy with Canada’s gun laws.

There, most variants of semi-auto long gun are restricted or prohibited and have constraints on magazine size if allowed.

These long guns are unrestricted in Canada. Note the numerous semi-autos with "assault" features. These are no longer legal in NY State.

https://www.firearmsoutletcanada.com/rifles/non-restricted

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Response to Straw Man (Reply #19)

Wed Aug 14, 2019, 10:50 PM

21. It seems your interlocutors' knowledge of Canadian gun law is on a par with...

..their political acumen.

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Response to oneshooter (Original post)

Sun Aug 11, 2019, 08:56 PM

3. I'd guess lever guns will be ok.

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Response to oneshooter (Original post)

Mon Aug 12, 2019, 01:40 AM

4. Depends on the wording

But they are not detachable or interchangeable so if it is similar to 94 there will be no impcat

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Response to oneshooter (Original post)

Mon Aug 12, 2019, 04:35 AM

5. NY made an exemption for .22 rimfire tubular magazines ...

... but nothing else. Your antique rifles are technically illegal here unless they're the above caliber.

I have yet to hear of anyone being prosecuted in this state for owning such a rifle, of which there must be thousands. I would like to see some DA try it, if only to show how ludicrous the statue is.

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Response to oneshooter (Original post)

Mon Aug 12, 2019, 09:17 AM

6. Depends. Does the restriction only apply to auto or semi-auto guns?

If so, your lever-actions are fine.

Plus, the restriction may only apply to removable magazines/clips.

If it applies to your guns, a gunsmith can probably permanently reduce the tube capacity without affecting the appearance, but harder to reverse than simply removing a plug.

We'll have to see what language passes, if any.

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Response to oneshooter (Original post)

Mon Aug 12, 2019, 05:56 PM

8. You're a child-hating monster

Look at you, stockpiling assault weapons like that. And only a child-hating monster cares the slightest about how a gun law actually works, or questions anything about them because THE CHILDREN.



{normal tone of voice}

Well, see, now, if the people proposing the laws either knew anything about guns we would have some reason to have hope of an intelligent discussion about this. However, since those people believe one or more of the following:

  • Gun culture must be demonized at all levels until it is destroyed
  • Anything pissing off a gun owner is a good thing
  • The only good gun is a destroyed gun
  • Objective gun-related facts are NRA propaganda
  • Gun owners don't care about children
  • No gun law is unreasonable
  • No gun law is ineffective
  • Following the law as written is immoral and proves you hate America, children, and apple pie.
  • Questioning the effectiveness of a law, ditto.


So, good luck. It's only a matter of time until you own an arsenal of high-capacity assault weapons because your magazines dare to have a capacity of more than 2 rounds.

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #8)

Mon Aug 12, 2019, 06:03 PM

9. Something to add to your list:

F*$% the NRA

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #9)

Mon Aug 12, 2019, 06:07 PM

10. That's just a knee-jerk reaction

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #10)

Mon Aug 12, 2019, 08:22 PM

13. IMHO...

...any noise from any supposed group of 5,000,000 pro-control, bullet insurance, assault weapon ban fans is just the sound of 4,999,993 knees jerking.

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #8)

Mon Aug 12, 2019, 06:33 PM

11. 2 round capacity?

What sort of spree killing are you planning on going on?



Single shot only, it will require a tool to reload so the minimum time for your second shot is at least 30 seconds.

Now you probably hunt so need ammunition to practice and to hunt so we can allow that. You will be allowed to buy 14 rounds per year. That lets you shoot every month plus two for hunting. It will be a minimum of $10 per round with an initial $100 per round deposit. To buy your 14 rounds you must bring all 14 cases back. If you don't you will forfeit the entire deposit plus pay a $500 penalty.

If you don't support this common sense measure you love your guns more than any person on the earth and probably should have to get a psychiatrist to sign off that you are ok to own guns.


I won't use the sarcasm smilie because there are some out there who would say this is "a good start"

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #11)

Sat Aug 17, 2019, 06:54 PM

30. The Republicans are trying to put, socially, in 1953.

The anti-gun people are trying to put us in 1853, hi-tech wise.

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Response to oneshooter (Original post)

Mon Aug 12, 2019, 07:31 PM

12. Aren't guns made before 1899 exempt from everything?

I don't think you even have to go through an ffl to buy them.

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Response to Alea (Reply #12)

Mon Aug 12, 2019, 08:36 PM

14. I believe they're exempt from federal requirements

Individual states can be another issue.

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #14)

Mon Aug 12, 2019, 11:49 PM

17. Of course you are right. I didn't think of that.

For all the people that say "here's your musket that the 2nd Amendment allows" ...

We won't even be able to have a musket by the time they're finished.



I think the UK has moved on to banning kitchen knives now so there's always work to be done. Rocks after that...

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Response to Alea (Reply #17)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 03:54 PM

35. The "here's your musket" people

should be forced to communicate with quill fucking pens and town criers.

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Response to The Mouth (Reply #35)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 04:08 PM

36. OTOH, there's no substitute for...

...the up close and personal effect of a morning star but I won't be bringing one to a gunfight.

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #36)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 04:32 PM

37. Well, as back-up

i have a 'Bastard Sword" hanging in the living room, just because I used to make knives and studied swordsmithing.

My guitarist dropped by and asked "why the hell do you need that thing?", to which I replied "If the Zombies keep coming after I run out of ammo".

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Response to The Mouth (Reply #37)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 04:34 PM

38. When should you use a broadsword rather than a desert eagle?

When you won't have time to reload.

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Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #14)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 08:25 PM

25. Only if the new law evempts them.

During the last " magazine ban" there was no exemptions for any rifle except 22rimfire. That would mean that some of my rifles would have to have the magazine tubes cut down. And possession of unmounted tubes would have been a Felony.

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Response to oneshooter (Original post)

Thu Aug 15, 2019, 10:37 PM

26. I doubt if the new rules would apply to 'Curios and Antiques' which any

100+ year old rifle wold be.

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Response to oneshooter (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 10:22 AM

27. Well if you go after waterfowl with a shotgun

depending on jurisdiction " Shotguns must be "plugged" to prevent them from firing more than three rounds before reloading." I figure that can solve the problem...

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Response to flotsam (Reply #27)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 10:35 AM

28. Waterfowl regulations is a federal law

Migratory Birds Act and a treaty with Canada. The three round rule is federal, and probably applies to Canada as well.

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Response to oneshooter (Original post)

Thu Aug 29, 2019, 03:28 PM

45. permanently restricting the magazine is not an unreasonable demand

Weld a plug in there.

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Response to samir.g (Reply #45)

Sat Aug 31, 2019, 02:29 AM

47. Not an unreasonable demand?

To completely destroy the collectability and historical value of a 100+ year-old rifle of a type that has never been used in mass shooting? You must be joking.

The notion of mag capacity limits as some sort of answer to the problem of mass killings is flawed from the get-go. Is 10 an acceptable number of deaths? Would you consider the problem solved if spree killers were limited to 10 victims?

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Response to oneshooter (Original post)

Fri Aug 30, 2019, 07:02 PM

46. Well, they were designed as weapons of war just like AR15s. Melt them down.






I reality so called Assault Weapons Bans are a bad idea.

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Response to oneshooter (Original post)


Response to oneshooter (Original post)

Sat Sep 7, 2019, 12:13 PM

52. Yeah. You got a problem with that?

Maybe you could get a Teddy bear to sleep with at night.

Please explain how your life would be ruined or destroyed by having to cut the mags off, or disable the rifle.

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Response to Cartoonist (Reply #52)

Sat Sep 7, 2019, 04:56 PM

57. I re read his post 3 times

Trying to see where he said his life would be ruined or destroyed. Not seeing it. Your sour reply is sour.

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Response to Alea (Reply #57)

Sat Sep 7, 2019, 05:07 PM

58. Hyperbole

If it wont harm him, what's his problem?

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Response to oneshooter (Original post)

Sat Sep 7, 2019, 12:46 PM

54. Really......

not even in NY...you already know that, and you know that your limit to the number of rounds when your hunting. The restriction for hunting has been in effect for decades....included shotguns too. I've hunted with an 1898 lever action and had a wooden block for it.

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Response to Historic NY (Reply #54)

Sat Sep 7, 2019, 04:52 PM

56. His post wasn't about hunting lol

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Response to Historic NY (Reply #54)

Sat Sep 7, 2019, 06:42 PM

59. But with a "block", (plug),

that means the magazine could be "readily convertible" back to original capacity. His problem, as I see it, is taking a historic arm, and making a permanent modification to the magazine, severely destroying the collector value of the piece. Therefore, it would "harm" him, by reducing the investment value of it. Like buying a house with a swimming pool, and the community passes an ordinance banning pools, and you have to have it filled in. Cost of filling the pool, plus loss of market value, is "harm".

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Response to oneshooter (Original post)

Sat Sep 7, 2019, 02:01 PM

55. ALL GUNZ ARE EVIL!

Think of the Children!

Obviously, if you even have ONE, or want one, you are a racist, Nazi NRA member who loves seeing kids killed!

You evil gun humper, you

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