Is the NRA right that Obama is 'coming for our guns'?

[Meiko]

Take a few moments and read the article. It has a good breakdown of who is telling the truth and who isn't.

By Aaron Sharockman
Published on Friday, June 15th, 2012 at 1:42 p.m.

Related rulings:

Says Barack "Obama admits he’s coming for our guns, telling Sarah Brady, ‘We are working on (gun control), but under the radar.’ "
National Rifle Association, Monday, June 11th, 2012.




Says Barack Obama is "trying to slash funding for the Armed Pilots Program designed to prevent terror attacks."
National Rifle Association, Tuesday, June 12th, 2012.




Says Barack Obama’s regulatory adviser Cass Sunstein, "wants to ban hunting and says animals should be represented in court."
National Rifle Association, Monday, June 11th, 2012.




Says Barack Obama "supported Ted Kennedy’s ammo ban to outlaw all deer-hunting ammunition."
National Rifle Association, Tuesday, June 12th, 2012.

Ruling: False | Details

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The NRA's top 10 reasons on why Obama is bad for the Second Amendment. (See the full list in our individual fact-checks.)

Here are some facts you probably won't hear from the National Rifle Association: The Second Amendment is fading as a wedge issue in American politics, gun owners are winning, and President Barack Obama is doing little to alter the scales.

Nearly one in two Americans now have a gun in their home and just 26 percent favor an all-out ban on handguns, down from 60 percent in 1959, according to a recent Gallup survey. The number of Americans who support tighter gun laws is at an all-time low.

And Obama?

Gun talk has been almost anathema at the White House. Obama signed a bill in 2009 that allows people to carry loaded guns into most national parks; in 2011, he largely avoided a discussion -- to the anger of many activists -- about strengthening gun laws following the shooting of Arizona Rep. Gabrielle Giffords. Obama received a failing grade from the nation’s preeminent gun control group, the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence.

We couldn’t find a word about gun policies on Obama’s re-election website.

"The gun control debate is over," said Rick Wilson, a GOP political consultant. "We live in a country where guns are a fundamental part of mainstream American culture. The moment I saw that Walmart now sells AR-15s (a type of semi-automatic rifle), I knew the debate was over."

Yet, you won’t hear much of that as the NRA campaigns against Obama in 2012.

In a new campaign mailer -- the contents of which we expect to be repeated in emails and at dinner tables -- the gun rights group is casting Obama as a gun control crusader who is "coming for our guns."

PolitiFact decided to put some of the NRA's claims to the Truth-O-Meter.

The gun rights group says Obama supported former Massachusetts Sen. Ted Kennedy’s proposal "to outlaw all deer-hunting ammunition."

That’s False.

The NRA claim is cherry-picking an extreme, worst-case interpretation of a 2005 amendment to expand the definition of armor-piercing ammunition, which is legal to own or use in the United States but illegal to purchase or make.

Kennedy’s proposal had nothing to do with deer hunting, but the NRA contended it could be threatened by the bill. Yet Kennedy said his proposal wasn’t meant to target rifle ammunition commonly used to hunt deer, and since the language was never approved, we don’t know how it would have been applied. More importantly, we have no idea if Obama would have supported a hypothetical deer ammo ban as the NRA claims.

"It is absolutely ludicrous to believe that a Democratic administration would have risked the political fallout of trying to use this section to prohibit rifle ammunition," said William Vizzard, a criminal justice professor at California State University-Sacramento and a former Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms agent. "The Democrats have avoided all gun control controversies assiduously."

To ban deer-hunting ammunition "would be suicide politically," added David "Mudcat" Saunders, a pro-gun Democratic strategist. "There might be some way the NRA could twist the facts. But it’s not true."

***LOTS MORE AT THE LINK***

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2012/jun/15/nra-right-obama-coming-our-guns/

[marybourg]

1. I wish he WOULD come for everything

but your hunting rifles and shotguns. But he won't.

[Meiko]

6. Let's just say

for the sake of argument that through the mystery of politics the Democrats wound up with a three way majority. After awhile they decided to do exactly what you suggest, force the surrender of every firearm that isn't a shotgun or hunting rifle. Tell me how you think that would happen. Cops in the streets or maybe military going door to door confiscating guns.

Would it be worth it to the politicians in this country to trigger another civil war over gun rights? or would it be smarter to work together and deal with criminal element since that is the real problem, not guns.

[hack89]

12. Why do you want to put the Republicans in power for decades? nt

[MicaelS]

13. And as soon as that was done,

Animal Rights Zealots would be advocating for a total ban on all hunting, and if there's no more hunting, there's no more reason for anyone to be "allowed" to own guns. See how simple that was?

And then I bet you wonder why Gun Owners don't trust Gun Prohibitionists.

[ileus]

15. Finally a voice of reason....except hunting is bad also.

[marybourg]

20. Some people in this country hunt

with rifles or shotguns for subsistence or supplementation. Or to maintain what might become a needed skill one day. That's orders of magnitude different from owning automatic weapons which have no purpose except for self aggrandizement or to kill people.

[Trunk Monkey]

22. Are you at all familiar with the National Firearms Act of 1934?

Or the Hughes amendment of 1986?
By and large ordinary citizens do not have access to automatic weapons.

[Meiko]

24. Access is only limited

by your cash flow, and a background check of course.

[Tejas]

25. So, why do cops need machineguns?

[rl6214]

16. But I thought the anti-gun zealots weren't for confiscations or bans

[HockeyMom]

2. That means nothing

nearly one in two Americans now have a gun in their home and just 26 percent favor an all-out ban on handguns, down from 60 percent in 1959, according to a recent Gallup survey. The number of Americans who support tighter gun laws is at an all-time low.

I have guns in "my" home. That doesn't make ME a gun supporter, or user. If I could get rid of his guns, short of divorce, I would.

[NRaleighLiberal]

3. Only in my dreams. n/t

[Scootaloo]

4. As I called it in another thread...

The "LIBRULZ GUNNA TAKE OUR GUNZ!" thing is sort of a tribal origin myth, a self-justifying cultural story that allows the recipients to feel like they are heroes facing a hostile world.

It's apparently so compelling that even self-proclaimed liberals often believe that "LIBRULZ GUNNA TAKE MAH GUNZ!"

[TPaine7]

5. It's a myth so powerful that some self-professed liberals have been tricked into believing

that they themselves support gun bans! Read the posts before yours.

That's powerful. They don't actually support gun bans, they just imagine that they do.

...

In related news, one in three horses believe they are de-horned unicorns.

[Scootaloo]

8. I'm sure some of them do

But the notion that it's a sweeping tide among every liberal and it's going to happen TOMORROW and it's because the liberals are in cahoots with the criminals and want to institute a totalitarian state and blahblahblahblahblah? Yeah, that's bullshit.

As an aside... I read your post and in my head, it sounded auto-tuned. Damn.

[Meiko]

7. I'm sorry

was this posted already?

[Tejas]

11. You smoked out a few RW Bradyites, so it's a good thing!

[rl6214]

17. Yeah, no one wants to take away any guns

marybourg (1,540 posts)
1. I wish he WOULD come for everything

but your hunting rifles and shotguns. But he won't.

[TPaine7]

9. What a law actually says matters, as well as what the powers that be can get away with using it for.

Social Security numbers, IIRC, were never going to be used for identification. The very suggestion was outrageous.

The First Amendment wasn't enforced strongly for many decades, but now it is. Similarly, if the language of this law can logically be read to support banning deer hunting ammunition, it could be used that way in the future.

And either deer-hunting ammunition can pierce police armor or it can't. I fail to see how it's "extreme, worst-case interpretation" of the law to understand ammunition that can pierce police armor to include ammunition that can pierce police armor.

[Clames]

14. Armor piercing is itself a subjective term...

...considering there are various grades of body armor with different levels of protection. "Police body armor" can be anything from lightweight flexible types suitable for undercover work to military grade stuff with trauma plates that can sustain multiple hits of armor piercing full power rifle fire. Another technicality that our anti-gun pals bumble into.

[TPaine7]

18. Oh, I'm pretty sure the intended standard would be "the lightest body armor ever issued to any

police or security force in the United States or any US territory."

In the meantime, gun controllers would settle for whatever would ban the most eeeeeeeevil gunz within the prevailing political constraints.

[TheCowsCameHome]

10. Of course he is.

Just ask those paraniod morans at the NRA - they'll tell ya.

[spin]

19. The NRA should be careful of supporting Romney ...

He has been on both sides of the gun control issue just as he has on every other issue.

Mitt Romney on Gun Control

1994: backed 5-day waiting period on gun sales. (Jan 2012)
Find common ground with pro-gun & anti-gun groups. (Jan 2012)
2002: I will not chip away at MA's tough gun laws. (Nov 2011)
2008: "Lifelong" devotion to hunting meant "small varmints". (Jan 2010)
2002: My positions won't make me the hero of the NRA. (Nov 2008)
GovWatch: 1994: did not “line up with the NRA”. (Feb 2008)
Support the 2nd Amendment AND the assault weapon ban. (Jan 2008)
I support the work of the NRA, but disagree sometimes. (Dec 2007)
Ok to ban lethal weapons that threaten police. (Dec 2007)
Compromise MA gun bills were net gain for gun owner. (Aug 2007)
Supports Second Amendment rights but also assault weapon ban. (May 2007)
Will support assault weapons bill and Brady Bill. (Aug 1994)
http://www.issues2000.org/MItt_Romney.htm#Gun_Control

More information from On the Issues dealing with Mitt Romney and gun control can be found at:
http://www.issues2000.org/Governor/Mitt_Romney_Gun_Control.htm

Gun ownership

Romney has said "I support the right of individuals to keep and bear arms as guaranteed under the U.S. Constitution,"[195] though in past campaigns he has described himself as a proponent of gun control, and he fully supports a ban on assault weapons.[196]

For Romney's 1994 US Senate campaign, he supported the Brady Bill, which imposed a five-day waiting period on gun sales, and a ban on particular semi-automatic rifles.[196] In a 2002 debate during Romney's campaign for governor of Massachusetts, Romney said: "We do have tough gun laws in Massachusetts; I support them. I won't chip away at them; I believe they protect us and provide for our safety."[197] As governor, Romney signed a 2004 measure instituting a permanent Massachusetts ban on military style assault weapons, to take the place of a Federal ban, which was then about to expire. The bill made Massachusetts the first state to enact its own such ban on specific semi-automatic weapons and some shotguns with specific accessories, and Romney supported the law with the comment: "These guns are not made for recreation or self-defense. They are instruments of destruction with the sole purpose of hunting down and killing people."[198] As Governor, Romney extended the term of firearm licenses from four to six years, reinstated a 90-day grace period for citizens renewing their gun licenses, and signed a law providing free replacement licenses.[citation needed]

When he supported the Brady Bill in 1994, Romney said, "That's not going to make me the hero of the NRA. I don't line up with the NRA."[197] Just before declaring his candidacy for the 2008 Republican nomination for president, Romney joined the National Rifle Association (NRA).[196][196][199] In 2005, Romney declared the 31st anniversary of the Gun Owners' Action League "Right to Bear Arms Day".[200]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Mitt_Romney#Gun_ownership

What is his current position today?

Gun Rights

As the Supreme Court recently reaffirmed, the Second Amendment protects one of the American people’s most basic and fundamental individual rights: “the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.” The Second Amendment is essential to the functioning of our free society. Mitt strongly supports the right of all law-abiding Americans to exercise their constitutionally protected right to own firearms and to use them for lawful purposes, including hunting, recreational shooting, self-defense, and the protection of family and property.

Like the majority of Americans, Mitt does not believe that the United States needs additional laws that restrict the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms. He believes in the safe and responsible ownership and use of firearms and the right to lawfully manufacture and sell firearms and ammunition. He also recognizes the extraordinary number of jobs and other economic benefits that are produced by hunting, recreational shooting, and the firearms and ammunition industry, not the least of which is to fund wildlife and habitat conservation.

***snip***

As governor of Massachusetts, Mitt was proud to support legislation that expanded the rights of gun owners. He worked hard to advance the ability of law-abiding citizens to purchase and own firearms, while opposing liberal desires to create bureaucracy intended to burden gun owners and sportsmen. As governor, he also designated May 7th as “The Right to Bear Arms Day” in Massachusetts to honor law-abiding citizens and their right to “use firearms in defense of their families, persons, and property for all lawful purposes, including common defense.”

As president, Mitt will work to expand and enhance access and opportunities for Americans to hunt, shoot, and protect their families, homes and property, and he will fight the battle on all fronts to protect and promote the Second Amendment.
http://www.mittromney.com/issues/gun-rights

The more important question for all firearm owners and the NRA to consider is how will Romney's views on gun control change when and if he gets elected President.

The far more extreme and conservative pro gun rights organization, Gun Owners of America, has an intense dislike of both Obama and Romney.

Gun Rights and Mitt Romney
Tuesday, 22 November 2011 08:20

In the recent Presidential debate, Congresswoman Michelle Bachmann said America’s voters did not need to “settle” for the moderate candidate. Amen to that.

And gun owners do NOT want candidates who talk out of both sides of their mouths.

***snip***

And that makes it all the more troubling that Romney refuses to answer GOA’s simple candidate questionnaire. In our more than 36 years of experience, a candidate is usually hiding anti-gun views if he or she refuses to come clean in writing with specific commitments to the Second Amendment.

Today, Romney may be a favorite “Republican Establishment” candidate of the national press corps. But that is exactly what gun owners DON’T need in a new President. We need someone who will stand by true constitutional principles and protect the Second Amendment.
http://gunowners.org/mittromney-2012.htm

Often in the past Republican Presidents have proved to be no friends of gun owners.

The Truth About Gun Control And Partisanship

***snip***

Reagan's administration passed more restrictive gun laws than any other administration (including the dubiously-named "Firearm Protection Act of 1986 which banned citizens owning automatic weapons without special permission). And the "Clinton ban" was actually named after Ronald Reagan's press secretary after James Brady was shot by a nutjob.

In 1969, journalist William Safire asked Richard Nixon what he thought about gun control. "Guns are an abomination," Nixon replied. According to Safire, Nixon went on to confess that, "Free from fear of gun owners' retaliation at the polls, he favored making handguns illegal and requiring licenses for hunting rifles."

It was President George Bush, Sr. who banned the import of "assault weapons" in 1989, and promoted the view that Americans should only be allowed to own weapons suitable for "sporting purposes."

It was Governor Ronald Reagan of California who signed the Mulford Act in 1967, "prohibiting the carrying of firearms on one's person or in a vehicle, in any public place or on any public street." The law was aimed at stopping the Black Panthers, but affected all gun owners.
http://bsalert.com/artsearch.php?fn=2&as=2471&dt=1

If I were a single issue voter who wanted to see draconian guns laws passed, I would probably vote for Mitt Romney. At a minimum he would probably favor requiring an expensive license to own a firearm and/or national gun registration. He might push for laws that would make it very difficult and expensive for anyone who was not a member of the 1% or wasn't privileged or famous to own a firearm.

One thing for sure about Mitt Romney is that you can't trust anything he says, as tomorrow he will reconsider and change his position.

Obama, on the other hand, had an excellent chance to enact stronger gun control measures during his first two years in office as Democrats had control of both houses of Congress. He didn't and in fact proved to be a friend of gun rights.

Is Obama Pro Gun?
Alex Eichler Feb 19, 2010

Stumping in Virginia in September 2008, Barack Obama reassured a crowd, "I believe in people's lawful right to bear arms. I will not take your shotgun away. I will not take your rifle away. I won't take your handgun away." More than year into his presidency, Obama has proved as good as his word. The administration has had little to say about personal firearms, except that they should be permitted in national parks and on Amtrak trains.
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2010/02/is-obama-pro-gun/25463/

Thursday, January 07, 2010
Obama's the most pro-gun presidency in recent history
Examining the record instead of the rhetoric, outdoor writer "Wild" Bill Schneider recommends the NRA erect a monument to Barack Obama on their front lawn:

"Obama, with help from his fellow Dems throughout the country, has done more for firearm owners than any President in recent history, including vocally pro-gun Republicans."

Check the record:

Applying state concealed carry laws to National Parks? Done.
Allow guns on Amtrak? Done.
Support state law for carrying openly at political rallies? Done as well.
http://bluesteeldemocrats.blogspot.com/2010/01/obamas-most-pro-gun-presidency-in.html

[Tuesday Afternoon]

21. Thanks spin and Meiko for Two Cogent Posts. K&R

[Doctor_J]

27. The NRA is a political organization, not a civil rights organization

they are as partisan as any of Rove's other PACs

[gejohnston]

28. the NRA existed way before Rove

and will still be there after Rove ummmm starts seeing folly of the dark side.

[Doctor_J]

30. So did the Republican party.

What's your point?

[GreenStormCloud]

23. Read Kennedy's speech. He specifically names the .30-30 as a "cop killer" cartridge.

It was a cartridge that he wanted banned because it could penetrate a vest. ALL deer hunting cartridges can penetrate a vest. The .30-30 is one of the most common deer hunting cartridges in America, and has been used since 1894.

Kennedy introduced a rider, the Kennedy Amendment to the 2005 Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, which he intended to ban the .30-30. Luckily it failed.

The guns-in-nat'l-parks was a rider to a credit card reform bill. It was not a free standing bill. The only way Obama could get credit card reform was to also accept the rider.

As a U.S. Senator, Obama voted for the Kennedy Amendment to the 2005 Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act Voting for a rider is supporting the rider.

[Doctor_J]

26. NRA Dem is sort of like Conservative Think Tank

Both are oxymorons.

[gejohnston]

29. I would say the NRA has more Dems

than any gun control group has any total members.

In all fairness, the NRA probably as many Greens as Brady has in total membership.

[Doctor_J]

31. How pathetic

that supporters of Obama and Dems would send their money to an organization that then uses it to print this type of horse shit. Stockholm Syndrome, would be my guess.

[gejohnston]

32. membership is different than the lobby arm

The lobby arm, ILA, is separate from the rest of the NRA. The Liberal Gun Club has more members than Brady and VPC.

[Simo 1939_1940]

34. "The Liberal Gun Club has more members than Brady and VPC."

That's some very sweet music, I'd say.

[Kaleva]

33. The Dem candidate running for Congress in my district is a member of the NRA

[AtheistCrusader]

35. NRA's full of shit on this one.

They've ratcheted up the rhetoric machine, and decided to back the only candidate in this race that has actually signed an assault weapons ban.

That tells me all I need to know.

[TPaine7]

36. Obama came over to my house yesterday...

He pounded on the door and yelled: "Presidential gun check, open up!"

I didn't answer. The Secret Service agents peeked in all my windows, but they didn't see me so they left.

I'm considering a strongly worded letter about citizen privacy.