Canada has not had the same trouble with guns that the USA has had. The number of gun crimes in

[applegrove]

Toronto is just beginning to rise. What would members of the NRA suggest we do to keep our big cities safe? I'm curious as to what their advice would be.

[elleng]

1. MORE guns, naturally!

[gejohnston]

4. Naww they already have a

couple of groups for that. http://www.concealedcarry.ca/

[gejohnston]

2. it operates in cycles

I suggest the federal government give the money saved from dumping the long gun registry to the provinces and large cities for community policing and crisis centers. Last I checked, Thunder Bay was the murder capitol of 4.6/100k, or five times El Paso's. Why aren't you asking the NFA?

[applegrove]

3. I was wondering if the nra types would do things differently if they have the chance.

[gejohnston]

5. I'm more of a Liberal Gun Club

or SAF type. If I were Canadian, I would probably join the NFA.

[applegrove]

6. Would you try and undo the growing gun culture and gun crimes growing in Toronto?

[gejohnston]

7. the gun culture is unrelated to criminality

The gun culture is a culture shared by people in the gun politics debate, generally those who advocate preserving gun rights and who are generally against more gun control. In the United States, the term is used solely to identify gun advocates who are legitimate and legal owners and users of guns, using guns for self defense, sporting uses (hunting), and recreational uses (target shooting). By contrast, the term is used differently in the UK and Australia, where it refers to a growing use and ownership of guns by criminals.

I always thought Canada used the same definition as the US. By your definition, the London pistol target shooter and a deer hunter in rural Alberta is the same as or part of the same culture as street gangs. They would and I do find that offensive and absurd. Criminologist James Wright put it best:

Thus, in the majority, I believe gun ownership is a topic more appropriate to the sociology of leisure than to the criminology or epidemiology of violence. Unfortunately, when we seek to control violence by controlling the general ownership and use of firearms. Well, of course the guns themselves aren't to blame, but we live in a culture that is largely obsessed with them to the point that gun ownership to many is a higher priority than educng the public at large, it at least looks as though we think we have intuited some direct causal connection between drive-by shootings in the inner city and squirrel hunting or skeet shooting in the hinterland. Or such, in any case, is the implication that the nation's squirrel hunters and skeet shooters often draw, and
frankly, it's no wonder they sometimes question the motives, not to mention the sanity, of anybody who would suggest such a preposterous thing.

you can read the whole thing here.
http://rkba.org/research/wright/hearing.31mar95

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_culture

What about other crime weapons? To answer your question, do you have a growing inequality of wealth? Is the source drug gangs like the US? Legalize drugs, even though I detest the drug culture.

[applegrove]

8. The trend is gun crimes. Would you do anything to try and mitigate the trend knowing what you know

now and guns and violence in major US cities. Should we follow NY's example?

[gejohnston]

9. no

see what El Paso is doing right. Not saying you should adopt their gun laws, but I'm sure there are lessons learned that would be worth looking at. Being next door to Cuidad Juarez and having one of the lowest if not the lowest murder rates in North America, including many Canadian cities, they are doing something right. As for NYC, stop and frisk is as unCanadian as it is unUSican. I'm sure there is something in the Charter about that. Just a guess.

Being a hick from Wyoming and living in semi rural Florida, I'm among the last people to ask. My big city experiences are mostly non US cities like Seoul, Manila, and spent a couple of days in Montreal.

[4th law of robotics]

10. Fewer guns per person!

Pakistan has a third as many guns per capita as Canada and as well all know Pakistan is by far the safer and more enlightened place to live.

Oh if only we could all be like Pakistan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

[applegrove]

11. There is no rule of law in Pakistan. Nobody pays taxes. Why would you make that comparison unless

you want to muddy the discussion. Which I knew you NRA types would do.

[gejohnston]

12. I think you have them confused with Somalia

I'm willing to bet they do pay taxes to the local warlord. How else can his goons afford the guns no one else has?

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/pk.html

[4th law of robotics]

43. A) there is rule of law in Pakistan

B) there are taxes.
C) the point is that by comparing countries on crime based solely on one metric (guns) you are ignoring a whole slew of other variables that all contribute.

[GarroHorus]

13. I dunno

I avoid members of the NRA like the plague.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

14. Does this meet the SoP? not sure. this is not the NRA.

Statement of Purpose

Discuss gun control laws, the Second Amendment, the use of firearms for self-defense, and the use of firearms to commit crime and violence.

[Kaleva]

15. He's qualified his remarks by saying "NRA types".

See post #3.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

17. uhm, I saw it. Sorry, not buying it. You?

[rl6214]

38. What exactly is meant by "NRA types"?

Why not just ask any current NRA members their thoughts rather than trying to create a "type"?

[applegrove]

16. I'm asking nra types, who do post here, what they would do in a large North American City that was

seeing the gun violence pattern, of the USA 30 years ago, replay. Of course it is about gun control laws.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

18. sorry. I find your post #3 offensive. NRA "types" should be found at some NRA website. Not here.

If they are they are quickly MIRTed. I am not sure if the NRA has a website but, I think your post would stand a better chance somewhere else.

on edit: Of course it is about the lack of Medical Mental Health Care in this country.

[Kaleva]

19. What's an "NRA type" and who specifically are you refering to?

[applegrove]

20. The people whose bots inform them whenever someone posts something anti-gun on the internet, and

show up with vetted talking points from the NRA. You know, the regulars.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

21. how about telling us who are these regulars. Name NAMES, please do.

[applegrove]

23. I'm not including you in that. You post on other topics too.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

25. do you really think Your Post meets the SoP for this group?

[applegrove]

26. I wanted to hear from the people, who shut down every discussion, where the city of Toronto should

go. I'm asking them if increasing gun violence in a city is a good thing. Of course the question belongs in the gun control group. How would you change anything in either direction without more or less gun laws?

[Tuesday Afternoon]

28. please consider rewording it, then. Unless you are calling out someone. I don't argue

with Canadians about this issue. too much iverglas, thanks.

[Kaleva]

29. I think gun crime is affected by much more then availability of guns

Guns are common where I live in Michigan but crimes committed with guns is a rare event. One couldn't say the same with Detroit and Flint though where the homicide rate for young black males is in war zone levels. Extreme poverty and little hope of a better future can lead to a very violent society.

Very tough gun laws could have an impact, maybe, but I think an emphasis on improving the economy, schools and infrastructure (there are areas of greater Detroit where there are no working street lights) could have a bigger impact.

[applegrove]

30. See. So reasoned. So thoughtful. So caring. You are definitely not an NRA type.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

32. Honestly, if you think there is an "NRA type" on here you should contact the Admin with links

to support your theory. Alert on their posts and check the ToS. Do us all a favor. I got eight hidden posts in one thread blasting away at one such.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

31. anger management and coping skills need to be addressed also. Dealing with stress in a healthy

manner. Aggression should be dealt with in a safe environment. Empathy and compassion for our mentally ill needs to be a priority. we need more mental health facilities and less prisons. We need to stop the war on drugs and HELP the addicted. We need to QUIT defunding sports and music and The Arts!!

[Kaleva]

33. The focus on the war on drugs ought to be changed to prevention and assisting the addicted.

IMO, marijuana ought to be legalized (and taxed) and harder drugs controlled like prescription drugs. Those diagnosed as addicts can get their fix at a hospital or other medical facility as long as they are enrolled in a treatment program. The toughest crime attached to the illegal sale of drugs would be income tax evasion.

[applegrove]

34. Yes. Portugal has had some great success with decriminalizing drugs and treating those afflicted

instead of jailing them. Don't know if it has decreased drug violence though I assume it would.

[Kaleva]

36. I'm suggesting going further and making it legal and not just decriminalizing it.

If it's legal, then it can be regulated and taxed. When prohibition ended, the mobs got out of the business as there was no longer any money to be made in it.

[Euromutt]

40. There's no reason to assume drug-related violence went down

Drug-related violence is primarily due to criminal distributors and dealers settling "business disputes" and--like the Netherlands--the only thing Portugal decriminalized was drug possession and use. The drug trade is still illegal and therefore controlled by the criminal element, and there will therefore still be dealers shooting it out over control of street corners and marijuana growers offing each other over who gets to supply the retailers in an area.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

37. agree with this plan. those in prison for marijuana need to be charges dropped and if under seven

years should be charged with the income tax evasion. or else given a chance to work it off with a garnishment on wages...something along those lines.

[applegrove]

35. Apparently they did a study in Chicago where they gave 800 at risk boys emotional communication

skills and it decreased the number of them who went on to a criminal lifestyle.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

39. I do not doubt it. Inner city youths should have a chance for Summer Camps in rural settings.

They need to learn how to bond with and care for animals. This way they can learn empathy and compassion and understand how it feels to be needed, to have something alive DEPEND on them. They can learn self reliance. Find their way in the world. Learn that they have something positive to contribute to society. They have Self Worth.

[Trunk Monkey]

41. I think the city of Toronto should follow NYC's example exactly

Pass a Sullivan Act

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sullivan_Act

The Sullivan Act, also known as the Sullivan Law, is a controversial gun control law in New York State. Upon first passage, the Sullivan Act required licenses for New Yorkers to possess firearms small enough to be concealed. Possession of such firearms without a license was a misdemeanor, and carrying them was a felony. The possession or carrying of weapons such as brass knuckles, sandbags, blackjacks, bludgeons or bombs was a felony, as was possessing or carrying a dagger, "dangerous knife" or razor "with intent to use the same unlawfully".

Then continue to make it more and more difficult for the law abiding
to obtain firearms while completely ignoring th eroot causes of crime and the fact that the criminals aren't obeying the law anyway.

[Kaleva]

22. Gun Control & RKBA is listed as my favorite group. Am I an "NRA type"?

[applegrove]

24. Nope.

[Kaleva]

27. Okay

But seriously though, you'd probably get more serious responses to your question if you left out the references to NRA types or members.

[Euromutt]

42. Keep out men from drug-transhipping countries?

You can trace an almost direct line between increased brutality in drug-related violent crime in the US and UK and the influx of Jamaican "posses," whose methods other, non-Jamaican black gangs subsequently copied. We're very likely going to see something similar with MS-13 and other gangs of Latino extraction, if it's not happening already.

Let me hasten to point out I don't advocate racial profiling but if you want an answer as to what will stop increasing brutality in drug gang-related crime, the obvious answer is, keep out anyone who fits the profile of a member of a violent gang from a Central American or Caribbean country. It makes more sense than tightening gun laws that members of drug gangs are as likely to obey as the laws on controlled substances.

[slackmaster]

44. Canadians are nicer people

The USA has a lot more people, therefore our extremes are more extreme than you can find in Canada.

[gejohnston]

45. here is a question for you

The people committing these shootings

Do they have "restricted" or "prohibited" FACs or PALs for these handguns?
Are those handguns registered?
Where are those handguns traced to?

I'm willing to bet the answer to the first two questions are no. That being the case, it has nothing to do with the gun culture, unless he was a drunk or high member of LAUFA. That being the case, your argument is based on a false premise.

How many were stolen from permit holders? How many were never legal in Canada? Rather than hassling your law abiding gun owners, deal with the real problem. Some say guns were the downfall of the Liberal Party esp in rural areas. It was the down fall for the Progressive Conservatives and gave more power to people like Harper.