Is there anyone who cannot purchase a gun if they want one?

[Logical]

I wonder how effective the NICS Background system really is. Is it worth keeping?

Since private sales are legal isn't it likely that the people who cannot pass a background check can just go the eBay route or the Craigslist route and get a gun? There is no obligation to do anything but verify they are 18 years old and live in the same state as the seller does.

So if a convicted felon wants to buy a gun from a craigslist listing there is nothing to stop him from buying it. As long as he is a resident of the same state as the seller and is 18 years old. Unless he admits he is a felon there is no obligation on the seller to verify anything else.

So I am not sure the NICS system does anything at all. Of the 700,000 denials since 1998 I bet all of those could buy a gun in a private sales. And this is not even counting the 100,000 stolen handguns a year that end up in criminals hands.

[ManiacJoe]

1. All depends on whether you want to distinguish

between legal and illegal sales. The restrictions on buyers are the same for sales by both licensed dealers and private sellers.

Licensed dealers are required to use the NICS checks as part of their verifications.

Private sellers are prohibited from using the NICS checks as part of their verifications. The most common verifications are drivers license for residency and age plus the concealed carry license for the background check. Some sellers skip the checks and just play the odds since the vast majority of the buyers are legal to do so.

Unfortunately, illegal sales are not normally prosecuted.

[SteveW]

2. I doubt the NICS B.G. test is effective as a prohibition tool...

Most prohibitions fail in their main public endeavor: Prohibition.

There are other more important goals, however, best summed up by Aldous Huxley:

"The surest way to work up a crusade in favor of some good cause is to promise people they will have a chance of maltreating someone. To be able to destroy with good conscience, to be able to behave badly and call your bad behavior "righteous indignation" -- this is the height of psychological luxury, the most delicious of moral treats." ALDOUS HUXLEY (1894-1963), Chrome Yellow, 1921.

However, I am willing to accept the current NICS testing scheme, as it appears to have little impact on law-abiding Americans and legal residents, and seems to make some gun-controllers feel better.

Does Craigslist, et al, require some sort of FFL licensee requirement at both ends of shipment?

[Logical]

3. I am talking only about Craigslist in person sales. Not shipping. I think that is illegal.

[SteveW]

5. I understand that...

but how many sales are within easy commute of both parties? Perhaps it is a big number; but in the event, Craigslist would be nothing more than an updated newspaper want ads where someone says: Come on over, I have that Remington 870 ready to go.

The big question is not some fiction of the "gun show loophole," but rather the more cosmic "NICS loophole," on which the gun-control organizations signed off! The "gun show loophole" IS more advantageous as a political cause as it goes straight to the heart of prohibition: Both the walling off and stigmatization of a "gun culture" institution. And of course the gun show "gateway" to more prohibitions.

[safeinOhio]

20. All post selling firearms

are now banned from graigslist. If you see one, alert on it in the upper right hand corner and it will be removed quickly. Many try to get around it by saying "item that goes bang" and those post never last the whole day without being removed.

[E6-B]

13. Private gun sales

As gun owner, I am very careful about selling guns. So much so that I only sell to good friends and family. That serial number is on you. If something happens with that gun it is traced back to me.

[rl6214]

17. Craigslist gun ads are supposed to be against the rules and deleted

[PavePusher]

4. "Unless he admits he is a felon there is no obligation on the seller to verify anything else."

Actually, replace "obligation on" with "mechanism for" and you'd be accurate. Since there is no mechanism under law, there can be no obligation. The burden of honesty in such transactions is completely on the buyer.

There are actions the seller can take to attempt verification, such as asking for an ID that requires such a background check (weapons carry licence/permit), but this is not a legal requirement, the buyer is under no obligation to comply, and the seller can not make a reliably accurate determination if one is not presented.

[Logical]

6. I 100% agree. Nothing a seller can do to verify anything. n-t

[X_Digger]

7. If your contention were true, facts would bear that out..

But criminals get a majority of their guns from 'street / illegal source' and 'friends / family'. Gun shows / flea markets account for a small percentage of such guns.

Unless you have some facts hiding in your back pocket, this sounds like a solution in search of a problem.

[Logical]

8. What do you mean? What 'contentions' are you talking about? I am wondering.....

why we need the NICS system when private sales can bypass it easily? An I NEVER mentioned Gun Shows once.

You realize Gun Shows are different than private sales?

Stop trying to find something where there is nothing.

[X_Digger]

16. I'm reading ahead in your playbook. Sorry.

Please, continue on.

[BiggJawn]

9. Who's buying guns from eBay and Craigslist?

eBay does not allow sales of firearms and for sale postings don't stay on Craigslist for very long before they're flagged.

[Logical]

19. OK, hmmm, I friend bougfht one from a craigslist posting. Maybe it was flagged after he contacted...

the seller.

[Fourier]

10. Guns and other weapons are prohibited on Craigslist

Partial list of items for sale and services the advertisement of which is not permitted on craigslist:

* Obscene material or child pornography.
* Offer or solicitation of illegal prostitution.
* Weapons and related items, including firearms, switchblade knives, martial arts weapons, scopes, silencers, ammunition, pellet/BB guns, tear gas or stun guns.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

11. where there is a will there is a way

I have found this to be true for most things. mind you, I didn't say legal . . .

[E6-B]

12. Do you really want anyone to run a background check?

I don't think the anti-gunners thought this through. If gun background checks can be done by anyone, then I promise you, anyone will be doing them and for any reason.

[spin]

14. Which is why a private sale would require a dealer to run the backgound check...

if ALL private sales required a NICS check.

[Fourier]

15. Can you still do a wind triangle?

[Logical]

18. I don't want anyone to be able to run them.

[safeinOhio]

21. Laws are made to address a problem.

No law solves a problem completely, but they do tend to make the activity more difficult. Take the restriction on machine guns and dynamite, very hard to obtain.

How effective a law is depends on enforcement. My guess is, if all of a sudden there were tons of terrorist incidents with illegally purchased hand guns in the US, the government would start running all kinds of stings to bust anyone selling a handgun illegally. At the moment there are not enough resources or will to do that.

Sure it is easy to buy a handgun on the street. There are few if any undercover LEO out there trying to make buys. They target drugs, it's safer and more profitable.

[ellisonz]

26. Agreed.

I don't get how this is hard to understand. Nothing is perfect, but more and better restrictions in time on something generally requires a higher-level of manufacture does work to an extent.

You're right...the right-wing side of the government doesn't really care enough to do much, even when a Congresswomen is targeted for assassination by a mentally defective gunman with extended magazine handguns.

LEOs by and large seem to have decided that it's a lost cause so long as government does not vigorously support such efforts; the ATF is underfunded.

[beevul]

22. Yes, there are.

"Is there anyone who cannot purchase a gun if they want one?"

People confined to prisons - though occasionally they aquire a gun or two, as well.

[Atypical Liberal]

23. Private sales are unregulated.

Since private sales are legal isn't it likely that the people who cannot pass a background check can just go the eBay route or the Craigslist route and get a gun? There is no obligation to do anything but verify they are 18 years old and live in the same state as the seller does.

Well, except that neither eBay nor Craigslist allow the sale of firearms, you are essentially correct.

All anyone who wants to buy a firearm needs to do is go to www.gunbroker.com or open your local Penny Saver and look in the Sporting Goods section. Private individuals are selling firearms every day.

So if a criminal wants to buy a used firearm at market prices all they need is cash and they can buy one, in most states, no questions asked.

The way around this is to have universal licensing and require that all sellers keep a record of the license information from the buyer for 10 years or so. This is what Illinois does. Sellers have an incentive to only sell to licensed buyers because if you sell to someone without a license there is a good chance that person is a criminal and will use that firearm in a crime, whereupon it may be traced back to the last legitimate owner.

However, what I have recommended is instead of an opt-in system like Illinois has, where only firearm owners apply for FOIDs, thus creating a registry of all firearm owners, they should have an opt-out system, where FOIDs are automatically issued to everyone who applies for a driver's license or state-issued ID, unless they opt out. By so doing, merely having an FOID does not guarantee that that person actually owns firearms. Thus firearm ownership anonymity is preserved, but you can also help make sure that private sales are only between authorized individuals.

[GreenStormCloud]

24. Craigslist does not accept ads for guns. Neither does eBay.

Try your local newspaper.

[ileus]

25. map showing private sales.

http://opencarry.org/privatetransfers.html

[Logical]

27. Thanks for this!! n-t

[AtheistCrusader]

28. Most of us would like for NICS to be opened up to public access

and also criminal investigations for all NICS rejections, as it is highly likely perjury was just committed.

[AlinPA]

29. No. Anyone (except very small children) can get a gun if they want one.