= new reply since forum marked as read
all that is left is the raw data and the numbers. The crime rates, the murder rates and all that other jazz. There is nothing fictional here. You don't need peer review when it comes to publicly available data.
There is no correlation between gun control and crime. http://www.nationmaster.com Try making your own non-cherry picked study. You'll be amazed at what you come up with.
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Good job gunners. 
But any analysis that seeks to use Russia as a model for comparison is going to be very flawed. Russia is not comparable to Western Europe, heck, Russia isn't even comparable to half of Eastern Europe anymore. In short, the usage of such a poorly reported number is academically disreputable. As it is, I'm sure DanTex can take you through point-by-point, but really there's no purpose because you're here to push an extremist agenda based on flawed reasoning without any openness to mainstream Democratic ideas about such issues. I will give you one thing, at least you threw $5 into the DU pot.
Whether you like it or not, his statement there is absurd. If that is not his position, you need to cite him refuting it otherwise you are just blowing smoke (which does seem to be your specialty).
I have better things to do than read debunked sociology. 
One more cup of coffee and then off to work. 
In fact, I probably should have waited a bit before posting, to let more of the gun nuts humiliate themselves by chiming in about what a great "Harvard study" this is.
No but really, it's good that you pee'd on their parade otherwise they get too bold. Even if it's not a "Harvard study" they can console themselves, they'll always have their Ann Coulter books and no one can take that fact away from them - you liberals are psychologically dysfunctional!
This place really needs to be shut down like a restaurant with a rat problem.
The amazing thing is how tolerant DU is of much of the craziness in here, if the Terms of Service were actually upheld in this forum the turnover would be much more dramatic.
Cheers.
And the Gungeon should be "shut down like a restaurant with a rat problem."
First you need to realize that many gun owners are Democrats.
And also that is diminishing support for new gun control laws:
The percentage of Democrats who own firearms primarily for self defense is higher than Republicans and Independents:
Therefore it is not surprising to find posters on DU who strongly support RKBA and are Democrats.
The sad reality is that I have known many gun owners over the years who absolutely refused to vote for any Democrat as they opposed our party's position on gun control. When I talked to them about other issues I found that many supported the Democratic view on these subjects. Such people are single issue voters and they DO show up at the polls! If our party drops its efforts to implement draconian gun control (which you probably feel are simply reasonable sane laws), we might well attract many voters to return to their Democratic roots.
Gun control has proven to be a ball and chain around the ankle of our party and has cost us many close elections. It could have cost us the Presidency when both Al Gore and John Kerry ran and we ended up the Bush the Junior for two terms. The results were disastrous!
Tighter gun control, come the calls; unlikely, D.C. watchers say
July 20, 2012|By Richard Simon
WASHINGTON -- The Aurora, Colo., mass shooting is reigniting a debate over whether tougher gun laws are needed, but congressional legislation is a long shot, especially in an election year.
Gun-control legislation is likely to be introduced again, as it was after other high-profile shootings, such as those at Columbine High School in 1999 and Virginia Tech in 2007.
But even gun-control advocates acknowledge they face a tough climb. Many Democrats have shied away from the issue since 2000, when losing presidential candidate Al Gore’s advocacy of gun control is believed to have cost him support in rural states....emphasis added
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jul/20/nation/la-na-nn-colorado-shooting-gun-control-20120720
Friday, Apr 13, 2012 6:47 PM UTC
When Democrats gave up on guns
***snip***
It’s probably worth remembering how this situation came about. In the 1980s and ‘90s, Democrats proudly trumpeted their support for gun control. Crime rates were much higher, so the issues polled well, and when Bill Clinton became president in 1993 he managed to push the long-stalled Brady bill, which mandated a five-day waiting period for the purchase of a handgun, through Congress and into law. A federal ban on assault weapons followed a year later, and while Democrats paid a real price with gun owners and rural voters in the 1994 midterms, Clinton had no trouble winning a second term in 1996
The gun control turning point came in 2000, when Al Gore lost a number of states – West Virginia, Kentucky, Missouri, Ohio, Arkansas and even his native Tennessee – with substantial populations of rural and small-town lower-income white voters that Clinton had carried 1992 and ’96. At the same time, Gore improved on his party’s traditional performance in large metro areas with more affluent, culturally liberal voters, producing a virtual tie in the national popular vote and a national electoral map dominated by Republican red.
***snip***
The Kerry campaign bent over backward to avoid the perceived mistakes that Gore had made. ”This campaign is 180 degrees different from 2000,” Kerry’s state director in West Virginia bragged before the election. But the result was the same. Actually, it was worse: Kerry lost West Virginia by 13 points, compared to only six for Gore in ’00. And Kerry failed to win back any of those crucial, gun-friendly states that Gore had lost to Bush. Nationally, Gore had lost gun owners to Bush by 25 points. Kerry lost them by 27....emphasis added
http://www.salon.com/2012/04/13/when_democrats_gave_up_on_guns/
I feel that Democrats who support RKBA should have a place to discuss that issue on DU. Many lurkers stop by and some support RKBA. Statements like yours might cause them to believe that our party is still EXTREMELY opposed to the Second Amendment and for draconian gun control as registration of all firearms and bans and confiscation in the future. Some of us are and some are not. Censoring debate on this subject or many other topics is not what we as Democrats should support.
I could ask that if you dislike the Gungeon so much, why do you post here? Wouldn't it make sense to simply boycott this group and post elsewhere? If everyone who held views similar to yours and no longer posted here, this group might simply die away.
I personally hope you continue to post as I enjoy debate. I always try to carefully consider the views of the other side on any issue that I support and try to reply in a polite manner. I've learned a lot about a number of subjects since I started posting on DU. Posting in the Gungeon has led me to modify some of my views on gun control. For example, I now support requiring an NICS background check for all firearms sales. This idea would accomplish more than merely closing the "gun show loophole" and definitely is opposed by the NRA.
The Democratic party is and should be a big tent. I suspect that you would pose a litmus test for "real" Democrats that would require all to support extremely restrictive gun control. That would be, in my opinion, a serious mistake.
While it is definitely true that gun violence is a problem in our nation, the fact remains that it has returned to levels last seen in decades ago. Today we face far more serious problems than gun violence. However that doesn't mean that we can't work to improve existing laws and to better enforce our existing laws.
Unfortunately if both sides of the issue merely waste time trading insults we will have a very difficult time doing anything on gun control. We can do much if we work together but that will involve compromise on both sides. Unfortunately our society has lost the ability to compromise and we often foolishly waste our time hating those who hold different viewpoints. Consequently noting ever gets done and our nation is mired in quicksand.
You do realize the Gungeon has been trashed by 110 DUers...that's a lot of people saying forget this group. The only reason I haven't trashed this group because I think you people are hilarious.
You and I have never had beef because you are respectful and not batshit crazy like some of your compadres.
One statement you have made I'm going to take issue with:
Because Republicans never commit illegal acts to win elections...
Also, I think there's a big difference between your run of the mill Democratic gun-owner and the NRA-type cult.
Most gun owners don't give a crap about the political bullshit the NRA feeds off of to radicalize its membership. Those who are still part of the NRA after its radicalization are clearly part of the NRA cult or apologists for the NRA cult. The truth is that the NRA doesn't give a crap about anything but its own narrow political objectives.
Stop supporting the NRA!
You don't want to contribute to global warming. 
