Do gun safety classes really work?

[safeinOhio]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-501370_162-57420221/man-accidently-shoots-self-wife-at-gun-safety-class/

Man accidently shoots self, wife at gun safety class

(AP) ROANOKE, Va. - A Roanoke man and his wife were recovering after he accidentally shot himself and her during a firearms safety class.

The Bedford County Sheriff's Office tells media outlets that Michael L. Deel shot himself in the hand with a .45-caliber handgun. The bullet also struck his wife, Michelle, in the leg as she was sitting beside him.

I'm all for more and better training. However, all the training in the world won't stop accidents. I met a man at a flea market a few years back, an older guy in his 70s. He had a cast on his left hand. So, I asked what happened. He said he shot himself in the hand while cleaning his handgun. Then he went on to tell me he has been an NRA gun safety instructor for over 35 years.

The point is, gun are very dangerous to handle and carry. Many here say that could never happen to me. Yes it can. While I have a CCW, I rarely carry. Most of the time I realize that the danger of carrying a gun might be more dangerous than my chances of having to use it for defense. Not that it "might" save a life at some time, but it also might be a danger.

What's the answer? More and more training and less handling of your handgun. Then again, not everyone is love with the wife all that much.

[Remmah2]

1. Hmmmm..

Interesting in all the training classes I've ever attended, rule #1: NO AMMO IN THE CLASSROOM. No ammo, no accidents.

It's also the way I was instructed how to instruct the rifle team I work with.

[socialindependocrat]

2. I agree - and the first three safety rules...

Make sure the gun is unloaded and the action is open

Muzzle control - keep the muzzle pointed in a direction so it is not pointed at anyone.
(at the ceiling or at the floor/ground or down range)

Finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.

I never have figured our how people shoot themselves when they are cleaning a gun.
The first thing you do is make the gun safe (remove the magazine and lock open the slide)

In our classes we have one instructor per trainee.
Any misshandling is immediately observed and corrected.

I'll bet, if you ask these people they will tell you that some rule wasn't being followed
when the accident happened. With the guy that shot himself and his wife - he wasn't
aware of his muzzle control. We drilled that into our students until they would automatically
duck if you pointed a finger at them with your thumb up in the air.

Safety needs to be conditioned and a respect for the firearm is critical.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

20. How to shoot yourself while cleaning a gun:

First, buy a Glock.

Next, be a little absent-minded.

One of the first steps in field-stripping a Glock is: pull the trigger, with the slide forward. This is part of releasing the slide for removal. But, even after removing the magazine, and racking the slide to make sure there's nothing in the chamber, it still doesn't hurt to POINT IT IN A SAFE DIRECTION before pulling that trigger.

It just seems bizarre to make "pull the trigger" one of the early steps in field-stripping. Yikes.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

3. My rule #1...

...treat every gun as if your life depends it, because it does.

But just an aside here: perhaps this guy didn't (and shouldn't) pass the class.

[safeinOhio]

6. Good point.

With the big increase in gun sales, there'll be lots of em.

My point is, no matter how SAFE you think you are, any mistake can be fatal and everybody will sooner or later make a mistake.

[Clames]

12. Wrong.

and everybody will sooner or later make a mistake.

Incredible minority make such mistakes. But you knew that already...

[MrDiaz]

28. yea but

not EVERYBODY will make a mistake with a gun. Some people know how to handle them, and realize the danger that they can cause.

[Atypical Liberal]

25. Going on 30 years with no mistakes here.

[littlewolf]

14. yeah every class I have ever been in

NO AMMO IN THE CLASSROOM.!!
ever ....
shesh

[rDigital]

4. Keep your booger hook off of the bang switch. nt

[Tuesday Afternoon]

17. lol

ew

[rDigital]

19. It's corny, I know, but my students never forget it and it always nets some laughs.

[glacierbay]

5. Safety classes only work if your not an idiot

in the immortal words of Ron White: you can't fix stupid.

[jody]

7. I've been teaching hunter safety classes for nearly 50 years in six states.

The overwhelming consensus is that those classes have reduced hunting accidents.

That's why I still help teach hunter safety known in my state as "Hunter Education".

[ileus]

8. My wife can out shoot me with her 642 v my LCP.

It's amazing how well she's able to shoot a pistol.


7 yards with her 38.




You should see the groups she can manage with the MK II


42 years without an accident. No NRA training here...That being said it could easily happen to me or someone in my family.


A friend of mine "accidently" killed his wife with a 357, another killed his wife for some insurance money. Another 3 or 4 maybe 5 killed themselves. Firearms aren't toys.

As I always say....Safety First, accidents later.

[jody]

9. Change foot position my reduce horizontal dispersion and tighten group. nt

[Tuesday Afternoon]

18. was there a time limit on that?

[slackmaster]

10. I've personally taught basic gun safety to more than 100 people, mostly young ones

I'm proud of what I've done, and believe that I've contributed a lot more to firearm safety than any of the yahoos who crap on this forum with broad-brush insults of gun owners.

[Reasonable_Argument]

11. Well

The classes I've attended don't let you bring a weapon until you've demonstrated you can handle a firearm, which the instructor provides. At the range, you either fire their weapons or they inspect your weapon before they let you fire in a controlled environment. As was mentioned above, there was always a strict rule NO AMMO IN CLASS!

[4th law of robotics]

13. Yes. With the caveat that no education is 100% effective

No amount of instruction in automotive safety will eliminate all car accidents.

That doesn't mean the whole process is pointless.

Same with sex-ed. And so on.

[aikoaiko]

15. I think the NRA supported the Ohio concealed carry legislation.

How are you enjoying it?

[Reasonable_Argument]

16. They did

And many of the people who go for training to get a permit goto classes run by NRA instructors. I'm considering becoming an instructor myself since sometimes people in this area have a difficult time finding classes at certain times of the year.

[Trunk Monkey]

21. I don't know if I would say that gun safety classes don't help

But I don't think they'll change your mindset.

If you are an unsafe idiot going into a class you'll be an unsafe idiot coming out of the class as well.

JMHO

[socialindependocrat]

22. Most people take classes because they want to be safe...

The people who don't care don't come to class - because they don't care

For those people who haven't taken a safety class -
they are fun
you meet new people and make friends
and
No matter how safe you are now you'll always learn something new

[Trunk Monkey]

23. To be honest, I’ve never signed up for a “gun safety” class just for the sake of the class.

To be honest, I’ve never signed up for a “gun safety” class just for the sake of taking the class.

I learned basic marksmanship in the Boy Scouts and safety was a part of the requirement for the merit badge, I went through BRM and U.S. Weapons in basic training, slightly different scope but the safety portion (except as it related to the M203 grenade launcher, the M60 & M2 Machine guns and the M72 LAW rocket) was exactly the same. And I get “Firearms safety training” every 6 months as a condition of employment.

With the exception of some of the legal training in use of force, all the safety training I’ve ever had can be summed up in the four rules.

1.Treat all firearms as loaded at all times

2.Never point a firearm at anything you don’t wish to shoot

3.Never put your finger on the trigger until your sights are on the target

4.Always know (identify) your target and know what is behind it.

And again I’m convinced that if you don’t have that mindset all the training in the world isn’t going to give it to you.

[moriah]

24. I participated in a women's only gun safety/education class.

The instructors said the reason they only allowed women in that class was that the men who had previously attempted to attend all ignored the advice of the instructors and were sure they knew what they were doing, whereas the women who attended both genuinely had an interest in learning truly safe ways to handle firearms, but paid attention and didn't think they knew it all.

Truly, the best website I've found that focuses a great deal on gun safety, *especially* when it comes to children, is corneredcat.com, written by a woman with many children. She decided the safest way when her boys were small to store the gun she wanted to have available for self-defense was to carry it on her person, in a proper holster, under a sufficient cover garment for the kids not to be able to reach for the weapon at her waist without her being aware of any such attempt -- all the others in their home were in a large gun safe. That way she had control over the firearm at all times, yet it was readily available if she had to defend her family. But even she mentions that kids can and WILL get into everything, so even the best gun safe on the planet is no substitute for teaching children to respect firearms.

She's a strong proponent of using "dummy barrels" for training purposes instead of guns with live barrels, even if they are "unloaded" -- you can practice cleaning your weapon safely with a "dummy barrel" just as easily as you can with a real barrel (with the exception of using rods for cleaning the real barrel, and real ones are easy enough to pass out during classes without them being inside the gun) -- especially for learning to draw from a cover garment and how to re-holster without sweeping the femoral or brachial arteries, or worse, letting the barrel sweep your own torso.

The intro to her page about kids and guns is really funny to *any* parent, regardless of if they are gunowners or not:

http://www.corneredcat.com/Childproof_Isnt/

Hope no one minds the link, but the stories about what she learned raising boys *is* hilarious.

[Atypical Liberal]

26. Firearm safety training is essential.

Whether you get it from a class or from your parents, if you are going to handle firearms you should be educated in the proper way to do so.

I have taken at least two firearm safety classes in my life. One was in Boy Scouts, and the other was the Georgia Hunter Safety course.

I aced both tests, and found them trivially easy, because my father had taught me proper firearm safety from about 8 years of age.

[bongbong]

27. Gun Safety

A good way to ensure gun safety is not to have one.

I can see this is not a viable strategy if you need one to feel safe enough to venture outside the house.



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