Gun Control & RKBA
Related: About this forumGuns don't belong on college campuses
Because of the gun violence on our campuses and in other public spaces today, I think more and more about those confrontations.
In the first instance in Chicago, a young male student said to me that I would not "get away" with the grade I had given him. Even though I was in my 20s, athletic and a former Marine, I never again relaxed on campus. The second confrontation occurred in Fort Lauderdale when a female student brought her father to my office to argue her case for a higher grade. The father became so angry and threatening that I telephoned security to escort him and his daughter from my office.
Over the years, several of my colleagues have told me about similar threats. Some took the threats seriously. Others saw them as being part of the job.
http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/columns/guns-dont-belong-on-college-campuses/1250354
holdencaufield
(2,927 posts)... is assault. Making a threat to use deadly force is aggravated assault -- a felony in Florida. Did the teacher ever file a criminal complaint against his alleged attackers? The story doesn't mention it.
Instead of persecuting innocent, law-abiding citizens, why not use existing law to prosecute law-breakers?
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)SecularMotion
(7,981 posts)ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)SecularMotion
(7,981 posts)rDigital
(2,239 posts)pnwmom
(108,977 posts)from doing bad things.
MercutioATC
(28,470 posts)You won't find many pro-RKBA people who don't agree that there should be appropriate gun legislation. This is not an all-or-nothing scenario, it's a matter of sensibility.
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)They're much too lax in many places.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)Lax gun laws doesn't seem to be a problem in Vermont.
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)gejohnston
(17,502 posts)DC and Chicago come to mind. Poorly constructed laws that serve no useful purpose for another. For example, California's "assault weapons" ban once included pistols like the Walther GSP as an "assault weapon." However:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walther_GSP
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)gejohnston
(17,502 posts)two went from complete bans to defacto bans, which should not be the case. In DC and Chicago, licensing/registration system should be streamlined and not be something out of a Kafka novel. Putting up needless bureaucratic roadblocks does not disarm the gangs, it only tells the residents "we care more about our own egos and writing checks to the gun lobby than dealing with real issues".
California's "AWB" is still absurd. The law was amended for the 2000 Olympics to exempt a few pistols by name. Even then, some in the California assembly took the view of "If you want to shoot in the Olympics that bad, move to Arizona." Hardly balancing civil liberties and public safety.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)MercutioATC
(28,470 posts)Federally, I'd like to see some changes to loosen things up a bit, but I'm generally O.K. with existing laws. Some states, however, have gun laws much tighter than I believe reasonable.
aikoaiko
(34,169 posts)...an student more dangerous or likely to use their weapon illegally.
alabama_for_obama
(136 posts)It's the imbalance of power between the professor and the student. If the student perceives in their young mind that the professor is being unjust, I can see situations in which they might be more likely to flip.
A lot of it has to do with their ability to self reflect and take responsibility for their actions, like not doing their homework or showing up for class. One must not forget that the students brains are literally not fully formed yet, and passing a class or not can in their eyes and to some extent in reality crush their future career aspirations.
I have had two students in my relatively short teaching career escalate discussion of their grades to the point where they were acting irrationally and on the verge of doing something stupid. Fortunately this was always over email, and never in person, but it can be a bit troubling nonetheless.
I'm glad that students aren't suppose to carry guns where I work, and on the whole I could be considered on the gun nut end of the spectrum here. I do think that employees/professors should be able to carry, especially if there were some kind of training/certification process. I look at it like first aide training, something people in positions of responsibility for others ought to be capable of doing. Protect students/coworkers from people who would cause harm until the professionals can get there.
hack89
(39,171 posts)or are you really trying to say that they won't flip unless they have a gun?
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)and other mental disorders.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)Yet there doesn't seem to be any especial problem with 20-something CCW holders.
So what's your point?
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,479 posts)...the situations described will not be solved with a sign.
Only a...
...with these...
...and a...
...will stop those folks.
Let's be real.
Atypical Liberal
(5,412 posts)Over the years, several of my colleagues have told me about similar threats. Some took the threats seriously. Others saw them as being part of the job.
No gun law is going to stop this. Just like when Amy Bishop walked into my school building, against the rules, and shot 6 people, killing 3, nothing is going to stop a student who wants to shoot their professor from bringing a gun onto campus and shooting their professor.
You can pass all the laws and have all the rules about guns on campus you want. If someone wants to shoot their professor, they will.
This is a stupid reason for prohibiting concealed carry on campus.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)With that kind of mental process, thank the FSM that that ass-hat is no longer involved in education.
rDigital
(2,239 posts)May his noodly appendage light the way for you.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)snow down upon you.
holdencaufield
(2,927 posts)... does that make me a heretic?
rDigital
(2,239 posts)PavePusher
(15,374 posts)But we must all be tolerant of our confused brethren until they see the light and return to the glory of the Great Strainer.
Simo 1939_1940
(768 posts)rl6214
(8,142 posts)Next google dump story...
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)More faith promoting rumor from the hoplophobic.
You can't trust these people any farther than you can throw them.
Euromutt
(6,506 posts)At least at the college I went to, it was not merely a violation of the law but also of the student code of conduct to threaten a staff or faculty member or a fellow student with violence. If a student makes a threat of violence and is serious enough to intend to follow through on it, then exactly what is going to stop that student from bringing a weapon onto campus even in violation of the regulations? Hell, in for a penny, in for a pound.
alabama_for_obama
(136 posts)They make it easier to kick out or otherwise discupline unruly students without worrying about a lawsuit, etc. They have their place, and at the very least set the tone for what is expected behavior on campus. They also raise awareness, which can sometimes help stop problems before they start.
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)in order to impose a penalty for a violation.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)gun-free campuses would they not professor?
How can there be gun-violence when guns are banned? Using them for violent purposes would be like illegal and stuff.
In the first instance in Chicago, a young male student said to me that I would not "get away" with the grade I had given him. Even though I was in my 20s, athletic and a former Marine, I never again relaxed on campus. The second confrontation occurred in Fort Lauderdale when a female student brought her father to my office to argue her case for a higher grade. The father became so angry and threatening that I telephoned security to escort him and his daughter from my office.
Chilling stuff. Stephen King better watch out.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)Last edited Sun Sep 9, 2012, 09:30 PM - Edit history (1)
every day.
Kind of two faced to ask them to serve their country but, not think them responsible enough to ccw on campus.
something is wrong with this picture.
doncha think . . .
alabama_for_obama
(136 posts)When they are in the military, they are (ostensibly) under strict authoritarian style supervision, with a myriad of rules that must be obeyed to the letter or risk serious punishments. Totally different situation from a college campus, where 18 year olds are learning (hopefully) to think critically and navigate through complicated intellectual subjects with relative independence. The guns they have in the military are strictly regulated, as is access to ammo. The 18 year olds in the military are not expected to think for themselves when it comes to the weapons they are issued and specifically trained to use. They are expected to follow orders without question.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)gejohnston
(17,502 posts)that is true in basic training. To some degree, that is also true in officer candidate school as well. Who do you think does all of the technical work for the military?
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)and then you can legitimately argue to keep guns off campus -- otherwise NO DICE.
I am NOT buying what you are trying to sell.
Simo 1939_1940
(768 posts)Of course you can't. Because none exists.
Just more of the usual moral whip and emotion-based "logic" we're used to getting from you.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)carrying and using their guns on designated gun-free campuses.
All the instances cited in the article by this prof did not involve guns.
Clearly we must go after . . . legal gun owners and further restrict guns in places where they are already entirely banned.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,479 posts)You can't carry a gun in Chicago so he's as safe as can be.
jeepnstein
(2,631 posts)I've been threatened on almost every job I've ever held. The worst was when I was a clerk in a convenience store. Deal with people and you'll eventually find a crazy or two.