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rDigital

(2,239 posts)
Wed Dec 12, 2012, 06:35 PM Dec 2012

Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter

Last edited Sun Dec 16, 2012, 06:37 PM - Edit history (1)

http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-man-armed-confronts-mall-shooter-183593571.html

"As I was going down to pull, I saw someone in the back of the Charlotte move, and I knew if I fired and missed, I could hit them," he said.
Meli took cover inside a nearby store. He never pulled the trigger. He stands by that decision.
"I'm not beating myself up cause I didn't shoot him," said Meli. "I know after he saw me, I think the last shot he fired was the one he used on himself."
The gunman was dead, but not before taking two innocent lives with him and taking the innocence of everyone else.
"I don't ever want to see anyone that way ever," said Meli. "It just bothers me."
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Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter (Original Post) rDigital Dec 2012 OP
You can have your very own Gun-Free Zone! pop topcan Dec 2012 #1
Seems like a potential lawsuit armueller2001 Dec 2012 #2
have you noticed that gun owners are responsible for all these shootups? nt msongs Dec 2012 #3
this guy was not a gun owner gejohnston Dec 2012 #4
His girlfriend said he was. Atypical Liberal Dec 2012 #9
first time I saw that gejohnston Dec 2012 #10
Me too. I don't know. n/t Atypical Liberal Dec 2012 #12
Wearing a hockey mask into a mall? Remmah2 Dec 2012 #13
I've noticed that criminals are responsible for these shootups. trouble.smith Dec 2012 #5
hit.nail.head Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #7
But that's wrong. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #6
Have you ever noticed that gun owners stop them all, too? Atypical Liberal Dec 2012 #8
The surest way to halt an active shooter is a gun in your hand. AtheistCrusader Dec 2012 #11
I've noticed that the majority of these cases involve stolen weapons! mudduck Dec 2012 #18
Enjoy your stay NRA troll Sedona Dec 2012 #24
what was trollish? gejohnston Dec 2012 #25
the 2 post wonder Sedona Dec 2012 #26
much of what the said in post 18 gejohnston Dec 2012 #27
MIRT sites the Ron Paul link as the reason for the PPR. ManiacJoe Dec 2012 #28
OK, gejohnston Dec 2012 #29
Mall Shooting Stopped By Licensed Gun Owner mudduck Dec 2012 #14
Interesting development. It's worth it's own thread. nt rDigital Dec 2012 #15
Fuck Ron Paul nt Vanje Dec 2012 #16
2 things... one_voice Dec 2012 #17
You linked to "Gun Owners of America" Vanje Dec 2012 #19
Nice folks, the G.O.A. Vanje Dec 2012 #20
Yeah... about that. OP edited. nt rDigital Dec 2012 #23
here is where I first saw it. gejohnston Dec 2012 #21
OK then. I can't say I knew that previously. nt rDigital Dec 2012 #22

armueller2001

(609 posts)
2. Seems like a potential lawsuit
Wed Dec 12, 2012, 07:27 PM
Dec 2012

If these places plan on banning effective self defense, they need to provide adequate security in place of it. I've already instructed my wife, if I'm ever in a "no guns" zone and get injured or killed, to sue the daylights out of whatever company or entity took away my chances of defending myself.

I don't see any valid signs here in Texas, I'm sure the business owners recognize that alienating a part of your customer base that happens to be several times more law abiding doesn't really make a lot of sense. College campuses, bars, etc still have a blanket ban unfortunately.

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
4. this guy was not a gun owner
Wed Dec 12, 2012, 08:00 PM
Dec 2012

he stole the rifle he used. BTW, possessing a stolen firearm is a federal felony.

 

trouble.smith

(374 posts)
5. I've noticed that criminals are responsible for these shootups.
Wed Dec 12, 2012, 08:16 PM
Dec 2012

I have also noticed that these shootups represent a very small portion of the overall gun violence in America yet it's the only gun violence that we ever hear about. 2 people were shot and killed in Chicago last weekend and 14 were wounded. That was a slow weekend for Chicago. Why aren't we hearing about that nonstop on every news channel?

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
7. hit.nail.head
Wed Dec 12, 2012, 08:23 PM
Dec 2012

These "mass killings" are fodder for massive news coverage and general hysteria...but actually represent a tiny fraction of gun-related homicide. Garden-variety criminal behavior is invisible (unless it happens to you or someone you know).

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
6. But that's wrong.
Wed Dec 12, 2012, 08:21 PM
Dec 2012

This guy wasn't a gun owner: the gun was stolen from a friend.

How's that foot taste...?

 

Atypical Liberal

(5,412 posts)
8. Have you ever noticed that gun owners stop them all, too?
Wed Dec 12, 2012, 08:33 PM
Dec 2012

The police in this case showed up within 30 seconds of the first calls.

When the shooter heard the sirens, he shot himself. Just like most of these lunatics do. When people with guns show up, the show is over.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
11. The surest way to halt an active shooter is a gun in your hand.
Thu Dec 13, 2012, 03:23 AM
Dec 2012

Eyeballing the list of attacks in the US, the majority self-destruct when they encounter armed resistance. Police, armed bystander, you name it.

For the rest, often, like Maldonado at the local Tacoma Mall, no longer hurt people after they encounter an armed combatant. Even if, in the case of Maldonado, he won the exchange with the armed bystander. By the time that little fight was over, all the rest of the bystanders managed to escape, and the cops were just that much closer.

I have honestly looked for a reason, and I have yet to see a case where it is unprofitable to have an armed bystander when some shithead starts shooting up the place. The gas station robbery where the clerk got shot sort of approaches that, but not quite. Not an active shooter anyway.

 

mudduck

(2 posts)
18. I've noticed that the majority of these cases involve stolen weapons!
Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:36 PM
Dec 2012

Neither of the cases this week were gun owners. The Oregon Mall shooting, the media plainly stated the weapon was stolen.

The Connecticut School shooting, the shooter was not old enough to purchase a handgun; he had 2. Again, the weapons were stolen from his mother's collection. And, she was killed with her own weapons.

Before argument surfaces about the shear firepower rendered by a firearm that has a 30 round magazine, or a pistol that has a 15 round magazine, or about these weapons being semi-automatic weapons, we should probably get the records straight.

The Colt 1911 Automatic Pistol was patented in 1911. The first semi-automatic pistols were developed in the mid-1880s.

The Browning Automatic Rifle, or BAR, with 10 round magazine, was patented in 1918.

The Thompson Sub-Machine Gun, with 100 round drum magazine was patented in 1919. The 10, 20, and 30 round magazines were not developed for this weapon until nearly 20 years later when the US Military adopted it for us in World War II.

The first semi-automatic rifle was patented in 1886.

The problem is not with high capacity, semi-automatic, assault style weapons, the problem is with today's society. As long as we continue to try and tell misfits that they are normal, and try to prove that by forcing them into society while waiting for them to wig out, we are going to continue to have a problem. As long as the media continues glamorize the incidents, and immortalize those that commit these senseless acts of violence, we are going to have a problem.

If you want this problem to go away, remember the names of those that lost their lives. Focus on those that have been killed, and give the twisted psychopath that killed them no attention.

Israel had a problem with terrorists attacking their schools, rather than try to make the country gun free, they armed the teachers, and taught them to shoot proficiently. Problem solved!

The worst mass school killing in history was not committed with a gun, neither was the second worst.

This case was topped before the suspect had a chance to pull it off. The day before the Connecticut shooting. Read it... he was planning on trapping students in the auditorium and using bombs.

http://www.newson6.com/story/20349085/bartlesville-high-student-arrested-for-threatening-shooting-day-before-mass-shooting

It isn't about guns, it is about a scoiety that has been desensitized to violence, through television, movies, video games. A society that has been demoralized in every respect of the word. A society that has been brainwashed to believe that it is somehow an inanimate tool's fault; when it is not. A society that has been led to believe that your government will protect you, when your government hasn't managed to approve a budget in 4 years. Stand before an armed suicidal gunman and tell him that your government is going to punish him, if you want. Personally, I'd prefer the option of outshooting him.

Heroine is illegal, Cocaine is illegal, Meth is illegal, Marijuana is illegal... the government has done a great job of taking all of that off the street hasn't it. The only folks that don't have it, are law abiding citizens. Anyone that wants it can find it. Can't they?

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
27. much of what the said in post 18
Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:07 AM
Dec 2012

was not being an apologist for anything. A couple of things were historically correct.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster
My clue would have been the ron paul link.

Vanje

(9,766 posts)
19. You linked to "Gun Owners of America"
Sun Dec 16, 2012, 06:11 PM
Dec 2012

Here is what Southern Poverty Law Center has to say about GOA:
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2001/summer/false-patriots?page=0,8


Larry Pratt, a gun rights absolutist whose Gun Owners of America (GOA) has been described as "eight lanes to the right" of the National Rifle Association, may well be the person who brought the concept of citizen militias to the radical right.

In 1990, Pratt wrote a book, Armed People Victorious, based on his study of "citizen defense patrols" used in Guatemala and the Philippines against Communist rebels — patrols that came to be known as death squads for their murderous brutality.

Picturing these groups in rosy terms, Pratt advocated similar militias in the United States — an idea that finally caught on when he was invited for a meeting of 160 extremists, including many famous white supremacists, in 1992.

It was at that meeting, hosted in Colorado by white supremacist minister Pete Peters, that the contours of the militia movement were laid out.

Pratt, whose GOA has grown since its 1975 founding to some 150,000 members today, hit the headlines in a big way when his associations with Peters and other professional racists were revealed, convincing arch-conservative Pat Buchanan to eject him as a national co-chair of Buchanan's 1996 presidential campaign.

The same year, it emerged that Pratt was a contributing editor to a periodical of the anti-Semitic United Sovereigns of America, and that his GOA had donated money to a white supremacist attorney's group.

Pratt is today close to the extremist Constitution Party and its radical theology.

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