Some fun with Wikipedia

[bobclark86]

After looking at the U.S. Cities by crime rate page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_cities_by_crime_rate I was trying to figure out if there's a correlation between tough gun laws and low murder rates... nope.

State, City, Population, Murder rate, Brady Score (of 100)
1) Louisiana, New Orleans, 356,317 , 72.8 , 2
2) Missouri, St. Louis, 355,151, 40.5, 4
3) Maryland, Baltimore, 639,929, 34.8, 45
4) Michigan, Detroit, 713,777, 34.5, 25
5) New Jersey, Newark , 280,379, 32.1, 72
6) California, Oakland, 409,723, 22.0, 81
7) D.C., Washington, 601,723, 21.9, No rank (but would be high)
8) Missouri, Kansas City, 483,191, 21.1, 4
9) New York, Buffalo, 265,128, 20.7, 62
10) Ohio, Cincinnati, 332,365, 20.5, 7

Four get "bad" Brady marks, while the others get "OK" to "good" marks.

More topical for today, Connecticut gets a 58 from Brady with "may issue" pistol permits required to even buy a handgun and an assault weapons ban.

So... what does this mean? If handgun permits and AWBs don't cut the crime rate, what will?

[cleanhippie]

1. Uh oh. Now you've done it. Using facts and logic in an emotional argument will get you crucified.

You are asking the questions that will never get answered. Instead, prepare yourself to be called names by those who are unable to overcome their emotions.

[upaloopa]

2. We're getting new gun laws deal with it.

While your at it stop for a moment and pray for the children shot today and their parents.
Also. Fuck your gun propaganda!

[bobclark86]

12. It's those darn facts again...

First, I'm not a Christian, so don't try to force your "prayer" on me. I would never pray to a god I don't believe in because it is rude to those who believe in said god.

Second, I just want to know what we can do. It seems like poverty, unemployment, poor physical and mental health care have more to do with gun violence than whether Brady likes your state or not.

The guns today were not legally possessed by the shooter, as a 20-year-old cannot buy a handgun. They belonged to his mother, and now she's dead... so they were stolen. The "assault weapon" he had could not have been an "assault weapon," as Connecticut bans the ownership of such a weapon (which he left in the car, by the way). Stronger background checks would not have stopped the shooter, as he never had to get one as the guns were stolen. Strengthening the gun-free school zone -- except for armed guards -- would not have stopped the shooter. Mental health wouldn't have stopped it, unless the kid were locked up before he did something (without cause, actually).

Name one gun law, short of banning all private ownership, which would have stopped this from happening Friday. You can't.

Lastly, profanity is always the way to get your point across. As we all know, the louder someone yells, the more right they are. Or not...

[upaloopa]

13. All you can do is throw up smoke screens. The people want your fucking guns out of their lives

and out of their kids lives.

It's too fucking late tho try and pass this off on some other faction in society. It's the fucking guns! Get it?

[wtmusic]

3. Tokyo, Japan, 13,216,221, .5

Take 'em all away.

[gejohnston]

7. which has nothing to do with gun laws

lived there, studied the culture and history.
BTW, Thunder Bay, Ontario 4.6
El Paso, Tx 0.8

[wtmusic]

8. Ya sure.

No one believes that crap anymore.

Handguns goin' down.

[Eleanors38]

9. "..goin' down." You a football fan? Are you serious about this tragedy?

[gejohnston]

11. Look it up, it's emperical

BTW, Japan also
has no exclusionary rule (illegally obtained evidence can be used in court)
a suspect can be held up to a month with no charges, no lawyer, no contact with family
forced confessions are admissible in court
lawyers are not allowed to be present during interrogation, which sometimes includes physical abuse and torture
you get to meet your lawyer a few times before trial

[oldhippie]

10. Japan, 99.4% homogeneous society .......

How about we try that? No, I didn't think so.

[jody]

4. Perhaps the only way to prevent such tragedies is identify those who are a threat before their teens

and place them under close government supervision.

[gejohnston]

5. of course you cherry pick out El Paso

while some places have scores of zero, no state should have less than five when you include federal laws, some dating to the 1930s, which Brady does not include. There is a stronger correlation between high murder rates and wealth inequality which is the main reason (along with a lot of organized crime) our murder rate is higher than other "first world" nations. Based on wealth inequality, we are actually closer to Mexico. The southern states, specifically Louisiana ranks very high in that regard.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/04022010/profile4.html
http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/why/evidence/violence

What does "may issue" pistol permits have to do with crime? Do they seriously think someone is going to get a CCW before committing a crime?

[Tuesday Afternoon]

6. bad timing especially bad wording for SubjectLine. suggest you drop fun.

[Gold Rush]

14. If handgun permits and AWBs don't cut the crime rate, what will?

Last edited Sat Dec 15, 2012, 08:38 PM - Edit history (1)

A national policy of gun bans. If you can go across the border and get a weapon and bring it home it wont work. We need a national policy. Unfortunately the gun fetish crowd makes certain that loopholes and workarounds are present in every piece of gun legislation.

I bet its fine finding caskets for kids. Good thing the those who see guns as a extension of their penis make sure that their states are open for every murderer, sociopath, an criminal to get their guns easily and take them back home.

[gejohnston]

16. close the wealth inequality gap

jobs, money in education and infrastructure. BTW, it is piece not peace.

[pop topcan]

17. Could you please explain the fascination of penises by the anti-gun people?

It's really creepy...

[Gold Rush]

18. It sickens me that so many right wing memes

are espoused by the pro-gun people.

It's really creepy...

[pop topcan]

19. The concept of self defense and allegiance to the Constitution are "right wing memes"???

wow

[Gold Rush]

20. DU Doesnt want you here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1240187300

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1240186518

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1240187611

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1240187200

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1240187077

[pop topcan]

15. They banned guns in Jamaica not many years ago...the country is drowning in gun violence.

It's a lot like the liquor situation in the USA after Prohibition was passed.

[MannyGoldstein]

21. Great Point! E.g., see Massachusetts: nanny-state gun control FAIL

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=journals&uid=176002&year=2012

[DanTex]

22. LOL. I guess this is what passes for "science" in the NRA bubble.

Let me guess, you also think the world is 6000 years old. Am I right?

If you are interested in what legitimate the peer reviewed science has to say, here are a few links to get you started.
http://www.nber.org/papers/w7967.pdf?new_window=1
http://home.uchicago.edu/~ludwigj/papers/JPubE_guns_2006FINAL.pdf
http://www.iansa.org/system/files/Risks%20and%20Benefits%20of%20a%20Gun%20in%20the%20Home%202011.pdf