Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter

[Viva_La_Revolution]

PORTLAND -- Nick Meli is emotionally drained. The 22-year-old was at Clackamas Town Center with a friend and her baby when a masked man opened fire.

snip>

Meli took cover inside a nearby store. He never pulled the trigger. He stands by that decision.

"I'm not beating myself up cause I didn't shoot him," said Meli. "I know after he saw me, I think the last shot he fired was the one he used on himself."

The gunman was dead, but not before taking two innocent lives with him and taking the innocence of everyone else.

video interview at link - http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-man-armed-confronts-mall-shooter-183593571.html

[sanatanadharma]

1. Two unarmed teachers throw themselves in front of bullets...

...to protect their students, but armed man in mall doesn't stand up to mall shooter. NRA claims that an "armed society is safe society" are bogus.

From Mother Jones magazine article detailing the Falsehood that more armed bystanders would mean fewer mass killings:

"There was one case in our data set in which an armed civilian played a role. Back in 1982, ... But even if we were to count that case as a successful armed intervention by a civilian, it would account for just 1.7 percent of the mass shootings in the last 30 years."

and this:

"Gun rights die-hards frequently credit the end of a rampage in 2002 at the Appalachian School of Law in Virginia to armed "students" who intervened—while failing to disclose that those students were also current and former law enforcement officers, and that the killer, according to police investigators, was out of ammo by the time they got to him."

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/09/mass-shootings-investigation

[Atypical Liberal]

2. which choice would you rather have?

Using your body as a shield or having someone as a gun save you?

[Gold Rush]

6. What is the best soap to use

when trying to wash the blood off of one's hands? Just wondering

[Atypical Liberal]

7. That is a ridiculous response.

I bet you wouldn't be making such comments if a police officer stopped this guy.

[Gold Rush]

8. Hypotheticals

are just that.

[Atypical Liberal]

9. Yup. But there is nothing hypothetical about what happened.

And what happened is that these teachers and kids were defenseless.

There is nothing hypothetical about that.

[Gold Rush]

10. Here ya go:

As a side note, Ive found that discussing sensible firearm regulations with right-wingers never seems to go anywhere.

That's all from me.

[Atypical Liberal]

12. Clever, oh 6-post wonder.

Perhaps you should review some of my post history before making such comments?

[Atypical Liberal]

20. Thank you for your sage opinion, oh 23-post wonder. n/t

[Gold Rush]

21. Yep

Only 20 some posts and Im the only one out of both of us who actually espouses Democratic views and principles. That is the true wonder. Sorry Romney lost, Im sure you were crushed.


Oh, and Id just like to point out that instead of addressing the argument, you are attacking me for my post count. That is what someone does when they lose...they attack the person instead of their thesis. Glad to know you have no other talking points other than right wing memes and your only defense is to discredit me based on post counts. Hmmmm which party has a record of personal attacks instead of actual debates?? Hmmmm.....

[gejohnston]

22. Well, since you don't actually know

what any of us post elsewhere or think, you love to judge anyway. Demanding purity testing, disdain for diversity enough to push much of the party out of the big tent, the words presumptuous, closed minded, intolerant describes you more. You don't speak for the whole party.

[Gold Rush]

23. You don't speak for the whole party.

maybe not, but some of the folks on this thread certainly speak for the NRA/GOP.

[gejohnston]

24. Nope, got that wrong.

Nobody speaks for the GOP, let alone the NRA. The world and party is larger and more diverse than you imagine. Since you seem to be here to create division, and divide and conquer is a GOP tactic,
hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Gold Rush]

25. You should google

projection.

[gejohnston]

26. I googled it before you knew what google was

probably before you were born.

[Tsiyu]

31. This 15,000+ post "wonder"

would like to thank you for your posts, and would also like to say that those who flaunt their # of posts seriously ( I do so in jest ) is probably the same sort who flaunts how many guns they own in real life.

When you got nothing, you cling to anything to appear to have value to community.



Keep posting. You are in the majority here, and that's why all the haters only have your post count to criticize. They were once low count posters as well. Now they are special snowflakes



Welcome to the DU

[truebluegreen]

32. +1000

Well done, Gold Rush.

[Atypical Liberal]

40. Right.

and would also like to say that those who flaunt their # of posts seriously ( I do so in jest ) is probably the same sort who flaunts how many guns they own in real lif

Right. Because it could not possibly have anything to do with the fact that someone barges in here with a 30 post count with no idea how long this paid member has been posting here or my position on things and is suddenly accusing me of voting for Romney.

[Atypical Liberal]

36. Wow, more judgmentalism from a 30-post wonder.

Only 20 some posts and Im the only one out of both of us who actually espouses Democratic views and principles. That is the true wonder. Sorry Romney lost, Im sure you were crushed.

As you would know if you had spent some time here, you would know that I voted for Obama in both presidential elections. You can see my ballot in my sig.

Oh, and Id just like to point out that instead of addressing the argument, you are attacking me for my post count. That is what someone does when they lose...they attack the person instead of their thesis.

No, it just shows how absurd it is for someone who has barely been here any time at all to be formulating absurd opinions about long-time, paying, members of this site.

Stick around a while and learn something.

[Eleanors38]

37. Amazing. One of those murder-mouthers got hidden? Jeeez

[XemaSab]

14. I had this exact "discussion" with a right-winger

in the comments section of my local fishwrap earlier today.

[MichaelHarris]

30. help me here

who stopped this guy? Certainly not the guy who hid behind a pole. The title of this post says your hero confronted something, only thing I see him confronting is his ass behind a column. Confronted the shooter, really? How fucking lame your new hero is.

[Atypical Liberal]

35. glad to.

help me here who stopped this guy? Certainly not the guy who hid behind a pole. The title of this post says your hero confronted something, only thing I see him confronting is his ass behind a column. Confronted the shooter, really? How fucking lame your new hero is.

I suggest you re-read the article. He did not take the shot because there were people behind the shooter.

Shortly thereafter, the shooter shot himself.

No one can say if he would have had an opportunity to stop the shooter if it had gone on longer. The point is, someone was there that could act.

Thankfully, the police arrived in less than a minute in this case.

[MichaelHarris]

41. I confronted a bear today

he was 20 miles away in the next field but I was ready

[Clames]

11. With all the dancing you are doing...

...you should be asking about the best laundry detergent rather than hand soap. I'd use the pre-soak cycle if I were you.

[Gold Rush]

13. I'd ask two of my relatives for their opinion

but they were in Virginia Tech. My cousin was in class with the guy, small world I guess. Funny thing is that the shooter was able to legally get firearms. But he shouldnt have been because he was diagnosed with severe mental issues. The problem is that the NRA and the Virginia gun nuts weakened the law so that someone who voluntarily checks themselves into a mental hospital (which he did) is still able to get a gun....You see, he was diagnosed as crazy in the court of law but unless you are dragged, kicking and screaming, to a mental hospital, you are on the "ok to buy a murder weapon" list. That is just ONE of the loopholes created by the the gun freaks.

The great thing about the right wing and their enablers is that they have watered down the gun laws so much in this country that they are essentially moot. No prob, you can protect yourselves in your well organized militia. I just hope my non-job will allow me the time off to attend the ever increasing funerals of loved ones murdered by the perverted gun lust in the US.


Sorry I cant talk more, I have to explain to my son why American elementary schools are now shooting galleries while places in Australia and the UK have NOT seen the weekly mass shootings we see here.

[gejohnston]

15. actually not

The problem is that the NRA and the Virginia gun nuts weakened the law so that someone who voluntarily checks themselves into a mental hospital (which he did) is still able to get a gun....You see, he was diagnosed as crazy in the court of law but unless you are dragged, kicking and screaming, to a mental hospital, you are on the "ok to buy a murder weapon" list. That is just ONE of the loopholes created by the the gun freaks.

He was was legally adjudicated as "defective" making him ineligible to buy under federal law, which the NRA supported. The problem was the State of Virginia's ability or willingness to provide the FBI with the updates.

http://www.npr.org/2012/08/16/158932528/states-arent-submitting-records-to-gun-database

[Gold Rush]

16. Glad to see the

NRA is infallible in your eyes. Thanks. Please see post #6

[Clames]

17. Sorry to see you have a problem accepting FACTS.

Guess nobody sat you down and explained the futility of such rhetoric...

[ThatPoetGuy]

3. Welcome to DU!

It's so nice to see sanity come trickling back to this site.

[Lizzie Poppet]

4. It's wrong to criticize the guy for not shooting.

He didn't fire because he didn't have a clear field of fire. He held his fire until he could shoot without unreasonable risk to bystanders, but before he could do so, the killer committed suicide. From the article:

The break in gunfire allowed Meli to pull out his own gun, but he never took his eyes off the shooter.
"As I was going down to pull, I saw someone in the back of the Charlotte move, and I knew if I fired and missed, I could hit them," he said.
Meli took cover inside a nearby store. He never pulled the trigger. He stands by that decision.
"I'm not beating myself up cause I didn't shoot him," said Meli. "I know after he saw me, I think the last shot he fired was the one he used on himself."

You can't just open fire at the first sign of trouble. Any "shoot/no shoot" decision has to be made according the the conditions in force. Meli did the right thing to hold his fire.

[krispos42]

5. he didn't play Rambo....

...and didn't kill anybody in a crossfire. And you're disappointed?

[friendly_iconoclast]

18. You forgot the first rule for that lot: The person with a gun is wrong. Period.

Little details like the fact that it was unsafe for Meli to fire upon the spree shooter matters
not a whit to them...

[Oneka]

42. Unless

Little details like the fact that it was unsafe for Meli to fire upon the spree shooter matters
not a whit to them...

Unless: he had actually shot, one of those bystanders, while stopping the shooter.

[Recursion]

44. The Pearl, MS school shooting was in 1997

That was stopped by an armed teacher

[virtualobserver]

27. this does show the flaw in the "armed hero" response....

a less responsible gun owner could foolishly kill an innocent bystander.....also in certain circumstances, the heroic one could be mistaken by police as the original shooter.

[AtheistCrusader]

45. Can you cite such an instance happening?

I can think of ONE bystander (a hostage held by the attacker) hit by a armed victim this year.

[virtualobserver]

46. no, but my point is that this example illustrates the inherent danger

in this kind of scenario.

[AtheistCrusader]

47. There are approximately 9 million people with concealed pistol licenses nationwide.

What you pointed out is a risk, and certainly has happened from time to time, but it is rare, and we hardly see it 'in the wild' so to speak.

(Notable but very rare exceptions like the gas station attendant, where the attacker used her as a human shield)

[bakpakr]

28. Thing that gets me,

We keep hearing that them more guns there are the safer we will be. That is all fine and good on paper. But out here in the real world where the rubber meets the road. You would think with all the guns owned we would be the safest country in the universe. But the exact opposite is true.

[ManiacJoe]

33. The owned gun is only helpful when

you have it with you at the time of need.

The majority of the people do not own guns. The majority of the owners do not carry them.

[Eleanors38]

38. No one here has advanced the notion that more guns would

make society safer. An armed citizen increases his/her personal safety ( though this is no guarantee). And having trained and competent security officers in schools can prevent attacks and thwart an attack in progress. But armed individuals are not "social policy," nor are they meant to be.

Hopfully, a sizeable armed civilian presence WILL have positive effects on social concerns (we are up to 8 million concealed-carriers, like it or not), but we'll have to see about that.

[Livluvgrow]

29. So lets see he didn't fire

because he couldn't get a clear shot, but somehow in a school with 600 plus students all the teachers and administrators with all these guns you nuts want them armed with are.

[ManiacJoe]

34. No, not all, just the ones with the clear shots.

[Eleanors38]

39. Would you want a couple of trained armed security in a school?

[Sedona]

43. no independent corroboration for this story

I call bullshit