Gun Control & RKBA
Related: About this forumCould Concealed Carry Permit holders be our version of the Israeli Civil Guard?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Guard_%28Israel%29The Civil Guard (Hebrew: משמר אזרחי, Mishmar Ezrahi), abbreviated in Hebrew as Mash'az (משא"ז is a volunteer organization of Israeli citizens which assists in daily police work. It is a subdivision of the Israel Police.
As of today, the Civil Guard is a division in the "Police and Community" branch of the Israel Police. The Civil Guard is managed and supported by the police which provide weapons, equipment, training and police officers who command local Civil Guard bases (each community has one or more Civil Guard bases). Although the Civil Guard is operated by the police, its manpower consists mainly of civilian volunteers. Members are trained to provide the initial response to a security situation until the police arrive. Most Civil Guard volunteers are armed with M1 Carbines and personal handguns (if the member has a civilian gun license). The Civil Guard is composed mainly of volunteers who do patrols (in car or on foot). They go through basic training and have limited police powers while on duty. They may apprehend a suspected person or make an arrest if necessary. Equipment generally consists of a fluorescent yellow police vest, flashlight, radio, firearm, handcuffs and whatever else may be required particular to the assignment. Equipment is returned at the end of the shift. Most volunteers manage about one shift a week (2 to 4+ hours), while the minimum requirement is 12 hours a month.
What if our CCW training was like this? Could these volunteers then guard our schools and other gun-free zones?
leveymg
(36,418 posts)Last edited Wed Dec 19, 2012, 10:04 PM - Edit history (1)
Atypical Liberal
(5,412 posts)In what way did George Zimmerman receive any police training?
leveymg
(36,418 posts)settlement against hoodies and Skittles wielding terrorists.
Atypical Liberal
(5,412 posts)leveymg
(36,418 posts)Sorry, I don't want an army of armed Zimmermen.
Atypical Liberal
(5,412 posts)leveymg
(36,418 posts)Atypical Liberal
(5,412 posts)leveymg
(36,418 posts)beevul
(12,194 posts)I guarantee it.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)Last edited Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:25 AM - Edit history (1)
I just couldn't resist though lol.
(on edit: For those who may not remember it or be aware, George Zimmer was the president of the Mens Warehouse, and his tag line was...
My failed attempt at humor I guess lol.
jody
(26,624 posts)for that. See State Guard Association of the United States (SGAUS) which is the more organized part of the unorganized militia.
That would also help Congress finally fulfill its obligation under Article I, Section 8, Clauses 15 & 16.
"{The Congress shall have Power} To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
{The Congress shall have Power} To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;"
The Militia is already defined by law as
(b) The classes of the militia are
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.
In one state the militia includes all people17-64 years of age.
sarisataka
(18,654 posts)but if we a taking a no BS, honest look at our country today, what we have is not good enough. The knee jerk reactions of guns are never good and if only everyone was armed are equally false.
Our current CCW hodgepodge is in no way up to the standard this would require. We would need to have such carriers train to a high standard, with recurring qualification tests.
It could be a way for both sides to get what they want. Use current standards to purchase 'old school' and 'traditional hunting firearms. We can decide if their would be a 'personal' ccw at this level. Those who wish to invest the time and effort could become a modern civil militia. By submitting to registration, training and qualification standards, these people would be allowed purchase of 'modern' weapons. CCW in all locations would be allowed. We can also debate if 'militia members' would have open access to purchase Title II and III weaponry.
Kennah
(14,265 posts)Here in Washington state, we have no training requirement for CCW. However, I've been through about a 100 or more hours of advanced firearms training, some of it might make you shit bricks, and I daresay the average cop hasn't gone through some of the training I've done. Even though most don't go through much training, if any, the number of times that a private citizen carrying fucks up is exceedingly rare. There are some who go off the end, but no amount of training can prevent a break from reality.
Arming kids, well, I hope I really don't have to address why that's a bad idea.
Arming teachers, to that I will offer up a quote I read on Liberal Gun Club. Again, this is not me, so I am not the excellent cook.
There are jobs that require attention, focus, and vigilance: teaching and security BOTH fall into that category, and expecting one person to fulfill both roles for a classroom is unrealistic and accepting of the fact that they will be marginal at best in either duty.
bowens43
(16,064 posts)the last thing we need is armed gun nuts stalking the halls our schools.....
how hard is it to understand that the solution to this problem is to get rid of the fucking guns?
sarisataka
(18,654 posts)at 300 million and remove an average of 1000/day the US will be gun free in 821 years, 11 months and one day... approximately
Atypical Liberal
(5,412 posts)The guns aren't going away. The President just got done saying so this very morning.
I'm tired of people who blow a gasket at the thought of a CCW permit holder with a gun stopping a crime, but have no problem with a police officer with a gun stopping a crime.
Maybe we can get what we both want and raise the qualifications for CCW permits so that there is little difference between a CCW permit holder and a police officer.
jeepnstein
(2,631 posts)If we incorporated the same training standards as the Civil Guard and they were under the direct control of the local Sheriff, it might work. I can see lots of Sheriffs not wanting the headache. Don't look for the FOP to jump for joy at the suggestion, either.
Concealed Carry training doesn't have much to do with police work. It could be done but the training would have to be much more comprehensive than just 8 or so hours of classroom work.
I do agree with your idea on one level. If citizens were given a bit more skin in the game than just sitting around waiting for "the professionals" to come do their bidding they'd be singing a whole different tune. I suspect most Americans wouldn't have the stomach for it. I dream of the days when "They ought to do something..." is replaced with "We ought to do something..."
jpak
(41,758 posts)yup
Atypical Liberal
(5,412 posts)Aren't you part of the crowd that is always yammering for a more "well-regulated" militia?
Well, here's your chance to have one. It's a volunteer part of the police force, and trained, and issued weapons.
msongs
(67,405 posts)Atypical Liberal
(5,412 posts)It sounds like anyone can volunteer, get trained, and issued a weapon.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)How about we spend those resources on better applicant screening, training, and support network for cops?
Atypical Liberal
(5,412 posts)gejohnston
(17,502 posts)fund a dedicated security force just like the VA, or the local Social Security office. Besides, we need the jobs. Let them join the teachers and cops unions.
rrneck
(17,671 posts)fightthegoodfightnow
(7,042 posts).
MotherPetrie
(3,145 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Fabulous.
Atypical Liberal
(5,412 posts)Folks keep clamoring for a more "well regulated" militia. Here's your chance.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)But you knew that...