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Wed Aug 12, 2015, 12:27 AM

#BlackLivesMatter More Than the Hurt Feelings of White Progressives™

by Imani Gandy, Senior Legal Analyst, RH Reality Check
August 11, 2015 - 6:09 pm

Yesterday morning, I tweeted something that now seems irrational.

I tweeted that there was no way I would vote for Bernie Sanders, and that is entirely due to the relentless campaign of harassment to which some of his more overzealous supporters have subjected me and other Black people on Twitter and Facebook. I even mentioned, as I have in the past, that I would vote for Hillary Clinton out of spite even though I have not yet forgiven her for the racist campaign that she ran in 2008 against President Obama.

As soon as I tweeted it, I knew it was irrational. Why would I refuse to vote for a person whose political positions are most aligned with mine simply because his followers have treated me with overwhelming disrespect, condescension, and flat-out ugliness? It’s irrational. I admit it.

But do you know what else is irrational? The behavior of Sanders’ fanatical supporters in response to the disruption of #BlackLivesMatter activists at Netroots Nation and the Sanders rally in Seattle led by Marissa Johnson and Mara Willaford this past weekend.

The last few weeks have exposed some real ugliness in the progressive movement, ugliness that has been simmering just below the surface for a long time, but which, due to Black women’s increasing recognition of our political power coupled with leadership in the #BlackLivesMatter movement and unapologetic commitment to dismantling white supremacy, has erupted into a fountain of White Progressive™ racism.

The rest: http://rhrealitycheck.org/ablc/2015/08/11/blacklivesmatter-hurt-feelings-white-progressives/

145 replies, 14825 views

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Reply #BlackLivesMatter More Than the Hurt Feelings of White Progressives™ (Original post)
MrScorpio Aug 2015 OP
sheshe2 Aug 2015 #1
cascadiance Aug 2015 #2
Number23 Aug 2015 #3
Cali_Democrat Aug 2015 #12
Number23 Aug 2015 #27
DonViejo Aug 2015 #70
Number23 Aug 2015 #104
ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #4
Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #5
sheshe2 Aug 2015 #6
PADemD Aug 2015 #7
Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #8
dgibby Aug 2015 #11
Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #13
dgibby Aug 2015 #21
Person 2713 Aug 2015 #26
dgibby Aug 2015 #28
sufrommich Aug 2015 #9
Maedhros Aug 2015 #10
Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #14
murielm99 Aug 2015 #17
Cha Aug 2015 #19
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #84
Cha Aug 2015 #15
bvar22 Aug 2015 #101
Cha Aug 2015 #113
bvar22 Aug 2015 #116
Cha Aug 2015 #118
Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #125
bvar22 Dec 2015 #136
Starry Messenger Dec 2015 #137
JustAnotherGen Dec 2015 #139
Starry Messenger Dec 2015 #140
JustAnotherGen Dec 2015 #138
pnwmom Dec 2015 #142
1StrongBlackMan Dec 2015 #145
pnwmom Dec 2015 #141
randys1 Dec 2015 #144
Iliyah Aug 2015 #16
killbotfactory Aug 2015 #18
Cha Aug 2015 #25
killbotfactory Aug 2015 #78
Cha Aug 2015 #79
killbotfactory Aug 2015 #81
MADem Aug 2015 #91
killbotfactory Aug 2015 #97
Cha Aug 2015 #119
Maedhros Aug 2015 #29
Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #30
HFRN Aug 2015 #54
JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #56
HFRN Aug 2015 #58
JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #60
HFRN Aug 2015 #61
JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #63
HFRN Aug 2015 #64
JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #65
LanternWaste Aug 2015 #134
Tarheel_Dem Aug 2015 #20
Number23 Aug 2015 #31
Tarheel_Dem Aug 2015 #74
Spazito Aug 2015 #83
Tarheel_Dem Aug 2015 #86
Spazito Aug 2015 #88
GitRDun Aug 2015 #22
HFRN Aug 2015 #53
GitRDun Aug 2015 #90
joshcryer Aug 2015 #23
betsuni Aug 2015 #24
Post removed Aug 2015 #32
MrScorpio Aug 2015 #33
Princess Turandot Aug 2015 #34
betsuni Aug 2015 #38
Cha Aug 2015 #35
joshcryer Aug 2015 #37
Cha Aug 2015 #39
joshcryer Aug 2015 #40
Cha Aug 2015 #42
joshcryer Aug 2015 #43
Cha Aug 2015 #46
joshcryer Aug 2015 #47
Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #49
Cha Aug 2015 #50
Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #52
Cha Aug 2015 #67
DonViejo Aug 2015 #71
Cha Aug 2015 #72
JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #73
Spazito Aug 2015 #51
Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #59
Spazito Aug 2015 #66
totodeinhere Aug 2015 #77
JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #55
Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #57
Number23 Aug 2015 #112
Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #115
Gothmog Aug 2015 #36
BumRushDaShow Aug 2015 #41
Gman Aug 2015 #44
OneGrassRoot Aug 2015 #45
mcar Aug 2015 #48
jazzwinders Aug 2015 #62
Spazito Aug 2015 #68
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #93
Spazito Aug 2015 #95
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #96
Spazito Aug 2015 #98
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #105
Spazito Aug 2015 #108
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #110
Spazito Aug 2015 #111
BainsBane Aug 2015 #120
Spazito Aug 2015 #121
Thinkingabout Aug 2015 #69
noiretextatique Aug 2015 #75
Dr Hobbitstein Aug 2015 #87
totodeinhere Aug 2015 #76
emulatorloo Aug 2015 #80
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #82
Cha Aug 2015 #85
Spazito Aug 2015 #89
kwassa Aug 2015 #92
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #94
lovemydog Aug 2015 #100
Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #99
lovemydog Aug 2015 #102
Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #103
lovemydog Aug 2015 #106
Number23 Aug 2015 #114
lovemydog Aug 2015 #117
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #107
Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #109
pnwmom Dec 2015 #143
99th_Monkey Aug 2015 #122
Martin Eden Aug 2015 #123
MrScorpio Aug 2015 #124
Martin Eden Aug 2015 #128
MrScorpio Aug 2015 #129
Martin Eden Aug 2015 #133
Admiral Loinpresser Aug 2015 #126
Hekate Aug 2015 #127
Blue_Tires Aug 2015 #130
William769 Aug 2015 #131
calimary Aug 2015 #132
arithia Aug 2015 #135

Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 12:42 AM

1. Great Op, Mr Scorpio.

Thank you.

From your link.

But for that to happen, Sanders’ overzealous supporters, many of whom are fundamentally indistinguishable from Ron Paul supporters in 2012, need to back off.

Sanders’ fanatics have been viciously harassing Black people on Twitter and Facebook for weeks now—ever since the #BlackLivesMatter activists stood up during the presidential town hall at Netroots Nation and demanded that Sanders provide substantive answers about what he would do about the epidemic of police violence in the Black community.

In the wake of that protest, Sanders supporters took to Twitter to condescend, patronize, and belittle Black people, talking to us as if we are stupid and don’t know what’s best for us, and therefore should listen to our White Progressive ™ betters lest we usher in a Trump presidency or a Clinton presidency or whomever is the Boogey Man du jour.

These supporters have twisted and perverted what is a movement about the liberation of Black people and turned it into a weapon to be used against us. They threaten to withdraw their support in protesting state violence against Black people. One Twitter user frankly told me that he was sick of #BlackLivesMatter and would actually vote for people who will “put you in your place.”

http://rhrealitycheck.org/ablc/2015/08/11/blacklivesmatter-hurt-feelings-white-progressives/

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)


Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 12:52 AM

3. But he's winning New Hampshire! New FREAKING Hampshire!11

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Response to Number23 (Reply #3)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 02:01 AM

12. LOL

 

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #12)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 02:51 AM

27. New FRAKING Hampshire!!1 Surely that will put to rest the idea that he's not appealing to minorities

!!11one!11

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Response to DonViejo (Reply #70)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 05:42 PM

104. Yeah and did you see all the people calling Nate Freaking Silver a "Hillary plant" and a liar in GDP

No bubble of delusion for these folks. Reality or nothing!

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 01:05 AM

4. Thank you

Much appreciated and recommended

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 01:13 AM

5. It's a real problem.

The is the third really huge racefail incident I've witnessed online, and maybe politicians need to start treating it as a real organizing space with people in it, instead of this "value-neutrai" tech platform. If you are going to depend on the internet to get your message out, you'd better have a strategy to deal with the conversations that will arise.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 01:26 AM

6. Kick

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)


Response to PADemD (Reply #7)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 01:50 AM

8. Worse than actual racism?

This is the African-American group, a protected group. Feelings about Bernie's supporters go in GD, GDP and the Bernie Group. Please take the conversation to those areas. First and last warning, thank you.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #8)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 02:00 AM

11. Question:

How is anyone supposed to know a post in Trending is from any protected group? This happened to me with another group. I had no idea I was in a group, but apologized and didn't post there anymore. Had I realized I was in the group, I'd never posted there in the first place. I was reading this post and didn't realize it was in the AA group until I saw your post. Seems to me that DU needs to tag threads in Trending. Maybe that would avoid these problems. Thanks. (PS, this is in no way meant to be snark. I really want your opinion on this).

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Response to dgibby (Reply #11)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 02:06 AM

13. I honestly don't have a great answer.

The area name appears at the top of the forum when you click on a link and go to the OP, but unless you think to look, you won't see it. People have asked the Admins about a solution to it for years, but I think it's way down on their list of things to do.

When I click on something on trending, I recheck to make sure it's in one of the big forums, just to be safe! For now, that's really all you can do.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #13)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 02:20 AM

21. Thanks so much.

I know there are some posters who know they're posting in a group, but I know there are posters like me who would never do that on purpose. It sure does cause hard feelings, though, and we don't need any more of that around here.

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Response to dgibby (Reply #21)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 02:49 AM

26. Look directly under the tabs on top after clicking on post

It has the forum and group then the post title all highlighted

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Response to Person 2713 (Reply #26)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 02:54 AM

28. Thanks. Will do. n/t

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 01:50 AM

9. This is the best explanation of the idiots who have

been losing their minds over BLM that I've seen.It's been hideously ugly.Good for Gandy for explaining it so eloquently.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 02:00 AM

10. I see a lot of invective, but little analysis or substance. [n/t]

 

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Response to Maedhros (Reply #10)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 02:09 AM

14. The same could easily be said of GDP this week.

This is the African-American group, a protected group. Feelings about Bernie's supporters go in GD, GDP and the Bernie Group. Please take the conversation to those areas. First and last warning, thank you.

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Response to Maedhros (Reply #10)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 02:14 AM

17. All you have to do is take a look at DU.

The few black members we have are being targeted and silenced. This is being done by Bernie supporters.

Others are being targeted, too, but our black members are being singled out especially. Please open your eyes.

There is not as much of the racist invective that is seen on Twitter and other places. That would get people banned here.

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Response to Maedhros (Reply #10)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 02:16 AM

19. It doesn't mattter how you see it.. it's from the view of a Black Woman and aimed at those who

are vicious and ugly to her and #BlackLivesMatter Supporters.. in BS's name.

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Response to Maedhros (Reply #10)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 02:53 PM

84. I see what you want/allow yourself to see ...

 

and know ... you probably can't see it because your recognize she is talking ... directly ... to you.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 02:12 AM

15. "But do you know what else is irrational? The behavior of Sanders’ fanatical supporters in response

to the disruption of #BlackLivesMatter activists at Netroots Nation and the Sanders rally in Seattle led by Marissa Johnson and Mara Willaford this past weekend."

EXFREAKINGZACTLY! Thank you, Imani.

"Real Ugliness".. ongoing.. no end in sight.

snip from your link//

These supporters have twisted and perverted what is a movement about the liberation of Black people and turned it into a weapon to be used against us. They threaten to withdraw their support in protesting state violence against Black people. One Twitter user frankly told me that he was sick of #BlackLivesMatter and would actually vote for people who will “put you in your place.”

My question is why?.. why do they think they have to be so ugly and vicious?.. it's not like it's getting them anywhere. They're not helping BS when they do this in his name.

snip//

"The only people who continue to stalwartly refuse to listen are his fanatical supporters. They stubbornly continue to claim that the protests are stupid and counterproductive despite clear evidence to the contrary, and they express their displeasure in rhetoric steeped in racism and
misogynoir "

snip//

"Ultimately, Bernie Sanders has a coalition problem. His coalition is comprised of primarily white progressives and liberals, unsurprising for a man who hails from a state that is 94 percent white. And when a vocal section of that coalition thinks belittling and harassing Black people is a smart way to encourage Black people to vote for Bernie Sanders, Bernie Sanders likely has a larger problem on his hands than he probably realizes."

snip//

"Look at the numbers. Black women are the most loyal and reliable Democratic voting bloc. We won the election for Obama in 2012. Black voter turnout surpassed white voter turnout in 2012. We won the gubernatorial election for Terry McAuliffe in Virginia."

That's bravenak right there.. and Voices like hers

"Look at the numbers. Black women are the most loyal and reliable Democratic voting bloc. We won the election for Obama in 2012. Black voter turnout surpassed white voter turnout in 2012"

BS supporters Diss them at their own peril. Just sayin'..

Oh, I have to post this.. this was so hot and heavy on DU for however long..

snip//

"And when we see Sanders supporters entertaining conspiracy theories about the #BlackLivesMatter movement being funded by George Soros or Hillary Clinton, we have to wonder why it is easier for white and non-Black progressives to believe in ludicrous theories about #BlackLivesMatter attempting to destroy the progressive movement or destroy Bernie Sanders than it is to believe that the movement is beyond partisan politics—that the Black women who are standing up in protest are fighting for their very lives and the lives of their children."

Did they ever apologize for those CTs?

Mahalo Mr Scorpio #BlackLivesMatter

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Response to Cha (Reply #15)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 05:08 PM

101. Actually, Bernie's response was the perfect way to handle the Hi-Jacking of a Political Rally.

He quietly left.

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #101)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 07:15 PM

113. "Sanders supporters entertaining conspiracy theories about the #BlackLivesMatter movement being

funded by George Soros or Hillary Clinton, , we have to wonder why it is easier for white and non-Black progressives to believe in ludicrous theories about #BlackLivesMatter attempting to destroy the progressive movement or destroy Bernie Sanders than it is to believe that the movement is beyond partisan politics—that the Black women who are standing up in protest are fighting for their very lives and the lives of their children." Imani Gandy

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Response to Cha (Reply #113)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 08:10 PM

116. Are you attempting to respond to me?

...because in that context, your post makes no sense at all.
I verbalized NONE of the slurs that you gratuitously included in your post,
nor do I believe in them.

Perhaps your are confused.

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #116)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 08:20 PM

118. "#BlackLivesMatter More Than the Hurt Feelings of White Progressives"






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Response to bvar22 (Reply #116)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 10:14 PM

125. C'mon bvar. Do you really feel the need to be in here?

It's the African American group, why not give it a rest and tell the other superfriends out there that Bernie doesn't need his honor defended. I'd like to not have to get blocky, and hope you'll just wander along back out there. Thanks in advance.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #125)

Wed Dec 2, 2015, 04:43 PM

136. Well, if all you want is an echo chamber,

have at it.

I have been courteous, and made no claims I can't support.

As long as we stay in divided camps,nothing will change.

The real epiphany I had when Racial and Gender ID became important (to some) here. Before THAT, I had NO idea who was Black or Female on DU...
and NOW, so much is made of the racial and gender identities that they all have to have "special" groups where people can't talk freely (Remind you of anything?)

Looks like you are backing into a corner instead of taking the field.
It was much healthier here when color, race, or gender made no difference.
We were just anonymous posters to a Political BBS,
and everyone opinions were not colored by....well, color or gender.

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #136)

Wed Dec 2, 2015, 04:49 PM

137. Um, was there a reason you felt the need to reply to this 4 months later?

Yes, Skinner set his forum up to have protected groups. The Bernie group also blocks people they don't want posting in there, so it can also remind me of that, if anything.

We try to not block people in here, I was merely asking you, with courtesy.



Well, if all you want is an echo chamber,
View profile
have at it.

I have been courteous, and made no claims I can't support.

As long as we stay in divided camps,nothing will change.

The real epiphany I had when Racial and Gender ID became important (to some) here. Before THAT, I had NO idea who was Black or Female on DU...
and NOW, so much is made of the racial and gender identities that they all have to have "special" groups where people can't talk freely (Remind you of anything?)

Looks like you are backing into a corner instead of taking the field.
It was much healthier here when color, race, or gender made no difference.
We were just anonymous posters to a Political BBS,
and everyone opinions were not colored by....well, color or gender.



Let this please be your last post in here. Thank you.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #137)

Wed Dec 2, 2015, 09:44 PM

139. At least the bumped up an awesome OP - sigh

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #139)

Thu Dec 3, 2015, 12:27 AM

140. Love!

I'll give it another l'il kick too, in appreciation of gif awesomeness and thread awesomeness.

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #136)

Wed Dec 2, 2015, 09:43 PM

138. 2nd request from a group host to go away

Thnks

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #136)

Tue Dec 8, 2015, 04:18 PM

142. There has NEVER been a time here "when color, race, or gender made no difference."

If there appeared to be such a time, it was merely because those issues were hidden and not discussed. That does NOT mean they "made no difference."

That would be like saying that in the 50's there were no gay people, because no one ever talked about them or acknowledged their existence.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #142)

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 12:58 PM

145. Funny ... I was thinking the same thing ...

 

And if I were to respond to that poster, it would have been to point out that the vast majority of the PoC on DU, especially in the AA Group, had self-identified as such, long ago ... it's only been since May of 2015, that our numbers doubled, maybe even tripled, with a sudden rush to self-identify ... by long-term DUERS that, strangely, never felt a need to do so, and never seem to feel a need to discuss much about race or race issues, and when they do ... they're generally in opposition to the other, longstanding, PoC.

Curious, that!

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #101)

Tue Dec 8, 2015, 04:14 PM

141. He was the KEYNOTE SPEAKER who hadn't delivered his speech. His response

was to END the event, which infuriated his white supporters against the BLMers.

His response was actually pretty terrible.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #141)

Tue Dec 8, 2015, 05:42 PM

144. Tons and tons of resentment on the part of certain people toward the AfAm

community.

Tons and tons.

My conclusion is those folks have always NOT been civil rights activists, most of em anyways.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 02:12 AM

16. K & R

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 02:15 AM

18. It's just wierd

You can support the BLM and Bernie at the same time.
Probably everyone in the crowd did.
why is there a narrative arising after this that's pitting white progressives vs black progressives?
Why?

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Response to killbotfactory (Reply #18)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 02:42 AM

25. Then this isn't directed at you. This OP is from a BLack Woman's view and what been happening

to her and #BlackLivesMatter Supporters.

I've listened to the audio of the crowd yelling at the Protesters in Seattle and they're vicious.

In case you didn't notice this has been posted in the African American Group.

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Response to Cha (Reply #25)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 02:32 PM

78. The crowd was mad because the protesters were antagonizing them

They weren't mad because they disagree with blm.

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Response to killbotfactory (Reply #78)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 02:34 PM

79. they were yelling taze them at AA girls wanting 4 1/2 minutes of silence for Mike Brown.

I stand with the Protesters.

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Response to Cha (Reply #79)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 02:42 PM

81. All the crowd knew is that their event was being disrupted

An event supporting a progressive cause.

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Response to killbotfactory (Reply #81)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 03:36 PM

91. The crowd didn't want to hear about black lives--they screamed at those young women.

Threw a water bottle. Told them to shut up. Played the "Do you know what he has DONE FOR YOU?" card.

The crowd was ugly. SCARY. You want to hear them in all their full glory? Put on headphones, and listen:

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Response to MADem (Reply #91)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 04:45 PM

97. Do you think the crowd would have reacted that way...

If they scheduled to speak?

Would the crowd be any less hostile if a couple of white guys shut down the event?

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Response to killbotfactory (Reply #97)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 08:22 PM

119. "#BlackLivesMatter More Than the Hurt Feelings of White Progressives"

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Response to killbotfactory (Reply #18)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 02:55 AM

29. It's just all so incredibly stupid. [n/t]

 

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Response to Maedhros (Reply #29)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 03:01 AM

30. Bye.

You have been blocked.

And with that, I need to go to bed, friends. First day of school tomorrow!

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Response to killbotfactory (Reply #18)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 10:19 AM

54. 'why is there a narrative arising after this that's pitting white progressives vs black progressives

 

ask yourself who benefits from it

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Response to HFRN (Reply #54)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 10:20 AM

56. White progressives?

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #56)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 10:25 AM

58. I was thinking more about Sander's political competition nt

 

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Response to HFRN (Reply #58)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 10:29 AM

60. I don't see how this benefits O'Malley or Webb?

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #60)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 10:30 AM

61. keep going nt

 

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Response to HFRN (Reply #61)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 10:32 AM

63. I beg your pardon? Keep going at what?

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #63)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 10:34 AM

64. I said 'his political competition', and you asked 'Omalley, Webb'

 

I think that's not all of the candidates competing against Sanders

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Response to HFRN (Reply #64)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 10:40 AM

65. eh - no - I disagree -

Clinton is pulling large numbers of black voters in early polling and Chafee doesn't even leave the bench. Those two are off the table.

In terms of black lives (human beings in America) mattering less than the feelings of white progressives - I remain in whole hearted agreement with MrScorpio.

It's painfully obvious what America thinks of us on the whole. <--- Notice I wrote that and I did NOT target white progressives. That's more for an alert stalker than you. Writing something like that is far worse than a black woman dying in her jail cell.

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Response to HFRN (Reply #64)

Thu Aug 13, 2015, 05:40 PM

134. Maybe simply stating your premise without playing games would better serve you.

 

Maybe simply stating your premise without playing games would better serve you. It can be both difficult and frustrating to cower behind mere implication for so long... as having enough courage to emphatically state one's position is much more relaxing in the long run.

Premise.
Supporting evidence.
Conclusion.

Not very difficult at all... if one is not cowering.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 02:18 AM

20. I think this is a big part of it. BS has attracted a Libertarian (aka Republican) element that....

has a problem leaving it's Republican roots behind. Libertarian/Republicans have always been self centered assholes. It's in their nature. Since Ron Paul ain't running, and Rand Paul can't get off the ground, they've hitched their wagon to the BS train.

"But for that to happen, Sanders’ overzealous supporters, many of whom are fundamentally indistinguishable from Ron Paul supporters in 2012, need to back off."

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Response to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #20)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 03:10 AM

31. The author makes a similar comment. Noting the similarities betwen Bernie's and Rand Paul''s

supporters.

But this bit:

And when we see Sanders supporters entertaining conspiracy theories about the #BlackLivesMatter movement being funded by George Soros or Hillary Clinton, we have to wonder why it is easier for white and non-Black progressives to believe in ludicrous theories about #BlackLivesMatter attempting to destroy the progressive movement or destroy Bernie Sanders than it is to believe that the movement is beyond partisan politics—that the Black women who are standing up in protest are fighting for their very lives and the lives of their children


Could have been copied and pasted straight from the panicked, unintelligible responses of our "friends" and "ällies" in GD-P who have said this exact same unhinged stupidity. Almost as if they are, oh I don't know... TALKING POINTS.

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Response to Number23 (Reply #31)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 01:54 PM

74. They've obviously invested heavily a meme generator. The new one is that BS is old, frail &

easily intimidated by black women, so BLM should leave him alone, and go "bully" Republicans.

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Response to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #74)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 02:50 PM

83. I have to say when I read the posts about his age and frail condition my jaw literally dropped...

I read it twice to make sure it really was being said by a supporter of the Senator. Yikes!

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Response to Spazito (Reply #83)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 03:23 PM

86. If an adversary had broached his age, the post would be hidden. But to have his "supporters" invoke

his "frailness" is a very new approach. One that I think they may want to reconsider, cuz that's the kind of thing that can stick. It's the third time, in as many days, that I've seen a "supporter" use that defense. It doesn't instill confidence in fence sitters. Bill Maher went after BS' age, but he goes after everybody. Didn't think I'd see it here.

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Response to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #86)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 03:30 PM

88. It is definitely the wrong approach if one is defending a candidate, imo!

I was disgusted by Bill Maher's attack on the Senator's age but, then again, I am often disgusted by Maher's approach to a lot of issues.

I never thought I would see it here either, I truly was and still am completely baffled why a supporter would go there at all.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 02:32 AM

22. That behavior is here at DU in a form, too

Criticism of Bernie, no matter how sincere, well meaning is met with pile on posts from the Bern-geon, many with abusive language.

What should scare the admins is HRC hasn't really aggressively campaigned yet. Lol if Bernie gets close, it may be uh-oh time!

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Response to GitRDun (Reply #22)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 10:18 AM

53. Sander's supporters should look to HRC's supporters as role models of tolerance of criticism

 

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Response to HFRN (Reply #53)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 03:35 PM

90. No

They should look at their posts, and ask themselves if that's the way they would speak to the person if they were sitting next to them....you know...manners?

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 02:33 AM

23. There's a paper linked in that article called "The White Space":

Quite compelling: http://sociology.yale.edu/sites/default/files/pages_from_sre-11_rev5_printer_files.pdf

The article in the OP is also quite good, but I just found that paper while reading it, and decided to share it in case some people weren't clicking all the sources (well sourced article btw).

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 02:41 AM

24. K&R

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)


Response to Post removed (Reply #32)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 03:27 AM

33. You're in the wrong place at the wrong time.

You would do well by deleting this.

Thanks.

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #33)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 04:10 AM

34. FYI

Juvenile Internet Idiocy, Twitter Derangement Version
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1187&pid=21827

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Rude, dismissive and insulting toward an important subject matter. This is the African American safe haven group, talking about the Black Lives Matter movement, and this poster feels entitled to come in and mock them. It's uncivil and ugly.

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Aug 12, 2015, 04:03 AM, and the Jury voted 4-3 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: They came into a group to lecture the group. Not cool. signed a Bernie supporter
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: He/she tried it. Rude
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Posting a cat lols in a thread discussing a serious topic is disrespectful. Plus, this is a safe haven group for African Americans, which I assume the poster realizes, which makes this worse IMO.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Hiding only because the OP is in a protected group.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

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Response to Princess Turandot (Reply #34)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 07:05 AM

38. Can't believe three people thought that disgusting crap was okay.

Oh wait, I just remembered where I am. I do believe it.

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #33)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 04:57 AM

35. that post was Despicable.. Glad it got a hide.. excellent alert message.. thank you, alerter!

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Response to Cha (Reply #35)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 06:53 AM

37. 4-3 hide.

Almost was allowed.

And mind you I usually like uhnope and have enjoyed their posts on Russia / Putin. But that post was some sort of fucked up shit. I hate what's happening to DU. WTF is going on.

Good hide. Would've voted to hide myself. Can't believe it was almost allowed.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #37)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 07:34 AM

39. I know exactly what you mean, josh..

From my perspective.. there's something about thinking they have to protect Bernie at all costs that brings out the mean spiritedness.

And, I know you're a Bernie supporter but you're not unreasonable.. as evidenced by your reaction to the hidden post... and I just know it.

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Response to Cha (Reply #39)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 07:46 AM

40. 1strngblkman made that point in another thread.

Not sure where it was, but the argument was as if they have to bandwagon in order to support their candidate. This is really fucking with my head.

And I know you know I've been pretty critical of Clinton about her public appearances and uncontroversial policy positions and such (but I've been supportive of her policy positions for the most part, if a bit cynical), and I know you and other posters here support her but you respect where I stand.

I respect that. And I know I don't post much in the AA group and I apologize if my posts here are just because of the bullshit that's happening lately (I'm not trying to appropriate or suggest I know a lot about the AA experience). But I feel like there's no reasonable place on DU to discuss this issue. The GD and GDP posts are insane to me. I did get a decent response to a post I made in GDP, though, so I feel all is not lost. I've been coming here and mostly reccing and occasionally responding in solidarity.

You (Cha), sheshe2, Number23, bravnek (sp?), Scorp, 1strngblkma and many others whose names I can't remember (Tarheel_something?) are DU's gems. I wish people realized that. I've never, in over a decade posting here (really one of the founding members), found any of you to be posting the toxic shit I see here on a daily basis. It's always positive or thoughtful. I hope you all realize that from the bottom of my heart.

Mahalo Cha! <3

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #40)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 08:21 AM

42. Aww, that's so nice and kind.. see I knew.

The African American Group has been the best place to talk about what's happening with #BlackLivesMatter, and discuss what has been going on since they so magnificently burst on the scene @ NetRoot Nations.

The Hosts here encourage discussion from all kinds of people.. they just don't allow anyone to disrespect their group.

And, there's been too much of that lately. Just saw a Number23 post that said more people have been blocked lately than in the last 4 years.

Yes, I do respect where you stand, josh. My son is going to vote for Bernie in the primary but doesn't try to push me in that direction.. and I don't try to change him. He will gladly vote for Hillary if she wins the nom.. and vice versa for me.

There will come the time when the Primary is Over and we'll all(a lot of us anyway) come together to fight for our Democratic nominee against whatever the gopropaganda machine spits out.

Say Happy Birthday to your Mom on the 13th.. I remembered! Mahalo to you for your kind spirit and words, josh.



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Response to Cha (Reply #42)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 08:29 AM

43. OMG Cha!

How did you remember my moms bday!?!

I think it was when I said my bday was the same as Obama's (August 4th) and hers the same as Bill Clinton (but his is the 19th and I never told my mom that to not break her heart)?

You are amazing! I can't remember telling you specifically but you got it exactly right! Her birthday is the 13th.

And FYI while I will be caucusing for Sanders I will be fighting for the nominee, I know his chances are low. But whoeever wins has my vote and has my efforts to get them elected. It's so strange to me that too many can't say that around these parts.

My moms bday... how the hell. You win!

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #43)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 09:14 AM

46. LOl, I'll tell you how I know.. but you can't tell anybody, josh..

It's the same day as mine. we were discussing that one year around this time..

And.. Yours is the same as Obama's! .. oh, sorry. I forgot! Happy Birthday, josh! Never too late

And, I do remember now.. you mentioning that about Bill Clinton and his birthday not being the same as your Mom's but you didn't want to break it to her.

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Response to Cha (Reply #46)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 09:23 AM

47. Cha!! Happy early bday!

I think I very well may take a break from DU in the next few days (too much bullshit). So I wish you a happy birthday if I don't post tomorrow!

How you ever remembered, you are awesome. Happy bday to you and my mom!

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #37)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 09:48 AM

49. Jury just left a post calling Black posters brain damaged

Can people go alert on this? Even though it survived a jury, which I was on, Admins will see all of the alerts. This shit needs to end:

following post:

Brain damage.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1174865

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Black people supporting Hillary are "brain damaged." Jury please read the comments. First poster said their black family, friends, neighbors supported HRC. Second poster said "what is it / why" this poster said "brain damage." Implying the poster and all HRC supporters are "brain damaged."

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Aug 12, 2015, 09:05 AM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Normally I would vote to hide this. But why? Admin is allowing DU to melt down(sorry guys but it's true) so why hide another little poke.

Meh.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Both sides in this internecine political war would do the Democratic Party (and DU) a HUGE service by tuning down the rhetoric and hyperbole.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: This should result in a PPR for racism.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #49)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 10:11 AM

50. I alerted as well as posted to the racist pos. Wow Juror #2? What's wrong with them..

"Normally I would vote to hide this. But why? Admin is allowing DU to melt down(sorry guys but it's true) so why hide another little poke."

Calling African Americans "brain damaged" who vote for Hillary.. "another little poke"?

This was my alert..

"Says "brain damage" when answering why African Americans favor Hillary.

What kind of ugly, mean spirited crap is allowed to permeate DU these days?"


Mahalo Starry

"Someone else already alerted on this post before you alerted on it, and only the first alert was sent to a Jury. A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of the post on Wed Aug 12, 2015, 03:05 AM, and voted 3-4 to keep IT. Please note that even though your alert was not sent to a Jury, it has been forwarded to the Administrators who review all alerts."

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Response to Cha (Reply #50)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 10:17 AM

52. Thanks Cha, I saw your reply at the thread too.

I was juror #7 on the original alert. I repeated to the admins that this should result in a banning. People aren't even pretending anymore.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #52)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 10:43 AM

67. And, why should they pretend?.. they know they can get away with this free for all .. except for us.

where the majority in charge are the ones who say and condone stupid, racist crap like "brain damage".

Wonder how many from discussionist have seeped through the du cracks and are enjoying their roles?

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Response to Cha (Reply #50)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 12:14 PM

71. Juror #2 to Rosa Parks....

as Mrs Parks is shoved to the back of the bus:

"Normally I would let you sit in the front of the bus. But why? The government is allowing America to melt down(sorry guys but it's true) so why let her sit in the front of the bus."

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Response to DonViejo (Reply #71)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 12:28 PM

72. Really, Don. Apt analogy.. you don't condone and let racism slide because

of ignorant racists. .. Juror #2 calling it "another little poke"

"Brain Damage"?! The reason given on this thread.. why African Americans favor Hillary over other candidates. And, the jury let it stay.

It illustrates everything that's being written about "progressives'" treatment of Blacks on the net.

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Response to DonViejo (Reply #71)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 12:42 PM

73. Nailed it

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #49)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 10:15 AM

51. Geez, if this doesn't fucking prove the jury system is broken beyond repair...

and DU is looking more like Yahoo every day.

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Response to Spazito (Reply #51)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 10:27 AM

59. It's borked.

Skinner said he was going to start removing people from the jury pool for ugly comments, he's going to need a weed wacker for people leaving bigoted posts to stand.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #59)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 10:41 AM

66. Yes, removing posters from the jury pool for their unbelievably ugly comments is a good thing but...

it is only a symptom of the growing problem, imo. Juries leaving more and more ugly posts to stand while hiding innocuous ones ie Number23's post, acting as a host, warning the poster they were in the AA group shows the system itself is a massive failure. It has changed to tone and tenor of DU from one of relative tolerance for different views if expressed respectfully to one of intolerance, imo.

I, naively, thought the jury system would work when it was first instituted. I was so wrong.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #59)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 02:16 PM

77. I know he said that but a lot of jury comments like this are left standing.

I don't know, maybe there is so much of it that the admins are overwhelmed by it. But I hope they can get a handle on it. What in the name of God are comments like that doing at DU? I came here to get away from that sort of thing.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #49)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 10:19 AM

55. If a black person not supporting Sanders is brain damaged then they are disturbed right?



From West Side Story - Officer Krupke!

ACTION
I'm disturbed!

JETS aka Black Folks at DU!
We're disturbed, we're disturbed,
We're the most disturbed,
Like we're psychologic'ly disturbed.



If I get an alert and a hide for posting an image from West Side Story - then Krup you DU!

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #55)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 10:23 AM

57. Hahaha.

I love that image.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #49)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 07:15 PM

112. Starry, don't forget the guy who referred to the #BLM protestors as "subhuman"

Just makes you feel all tingly inside knowing these people are our "allies" don't it??

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Response to Number23 (Reply #112)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 08:00 PM

115. They got called Nazis and fascists yesterday too.

This place is scaring me. And the "allies" on Twitter and FB going after every Black person with an opinion --hammer and tongs-- on #BLM pages or accounts in support.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 06:25 AM

36. Good OP

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 07:52 AM

41. Big Amen and K&R



The hidden zealots were unleashed and one wonders if they really are narcissists in "progressive" clothing.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 08:44 AM

44. Excellent read

It will sail over the heads of Sanders supporters. They have all had such lovely lives that they simply don't want to get it. Thinking about things they don't want to think about. Has this been posted in GD? If not, I'd say don't bother.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 09:01 AM

45. I could not agree more, especially this part:

But do you know what else is irrational? The behavior of Sanders’ fanatical supporters in response to the disruption of #BlackLivesMatter activists at Netroots Nation and the Sanders rally in Seattle led by Marissa Johnson and Mara Willaford this past weekend.

The last few weeks have exposed some real ugliness in the progressive movement, ugliness that has been simmering just below the surface for a long time, but which, due to Black women’s increasing recognition of our political power coupled with leadership in the #BlackLivesMatter movement and unapologetic commitment to dismantling white supremacy, has erupted into a fountain of White Progressive™ racism.


I feel I always need to include the fact that I'm a white Sanders supporter. I can't take in all that has been happening on DU, having been away so long, but what I have viewed on Facebook and twitter -- by my friends, people that I never would have thought would have thrown #BLM under the bus, let alone so quickly -- shocked me.

IMHO, as it concerns white liberals, I think there likely are more who (subconsciously) feel they are superior to people of color -- and this is true even if they "get" white privilege, which is a stumbling block for many liberals, still -- than most white liberals think, but likely less than black people think. Still, it exists. A white liberal who feels superior in various ways to people of color -- and, quite frankly, specifically black people, so much so that they feel entitled to set the narrative -- is not an anomaly, in my opinion.




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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 09:23 AM

48. K&R

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 10:30 AM

62. Bernie

I was excited about voting for Bernie until I saw some of the responses from his supporters. I will vote for him if he's the nominee, but he will not get my vote in the primary election.

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Response to jazzwinders (Reply #62)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 10:52 AM

68. The volunteers, supporters of a candidate ARE the 'face' of the candidate...

most people will never meet the candidate themselves, they meet their supporters. If supporters are treating those they want to support their candidate with derision, contempt, dismissal, well, as the face of the candidate, people can only assume their attitude reflects that of the candidate, imo. Not a good way to grow one's support base, quite the opposite as you have recognized in your post. You are not the only one feeling this way, many are feeling the way you do from what I have heard/read.

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Response to Spazito (Reply #68)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 04:24 PM

93. Spoken like someone who has actually been involved in a campaign ...

 

That IS, quite literally, the first thing that canvassers/campaign workers are taught/told ... And, in my experience, the basis for a lot of volunteer trimming.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #93)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 04:31 PM

95. I have, many of them at various levels and the training for both staff and volunteers...

stresses this point over all others. It is the old 'you rarely get a second chance to make a first impression' and the first impression of the candidate is 'you'. I've seen volunteers and staff turfed for not 'getting it'.

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Response to Spazito (Reply #95)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 04:41 PM

96. Again, from my experience ...

 

That is/was Lesson 1, Day 1, 2, and 3!

In fact, the last campaign I worked, that was the last thing said before the van was loaded.

I suspect that the loudest voices here, never were in a position to hear the directive, as internet advocacy has no such restrictions.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #96)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 04:51 PM

98. Internet advocacy is even more fraught with 'danger' for campaigns, imo...

Door to door or at a public meeting, the person or persons you, as an advocate/volunteer, are trying to entice to support your candidate can see your body language, your facial expressions, etc. On the internet, there is only text without the other key elements of non-verbal communication we use to 'read' the person. Aggression, verbal slights come across much more strongly when one has only text by which one can make a judgment, imo.

I haven't been involved in a campaign since the social media has taken such a strong hold as it has today so I don't know what the training sessions teach from that aspect but I am betting there is even greater stress put on what NOT to do on the internet while advocating for one's candidate.

I might soon find out, though, as we have an upcoming election and I intend to volunteer quite soon providing I can work from my home.

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Response to Spazito (Reply #98)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 05:49 PM

105. As a DUer (SMessenger) observed ...

 

Campaigns ought to recognize the internet as a campaign platform and devise a messenger control strategy ... especially, if that is a part of your media plan, a la Bernie vis-a-vis OWS.

Thinkiing on this topic ... And forgive me if this is out of line; but, is forethought, I.e., the ability to see, and manage, resultant events, an important consideration for prospective leaders?

ETA: It is that which I admire most about President Obama ... His uncanny ability to anticipate, and manage if need be, the results of his actions.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #105)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 06:07 PM

108. As to your question on the necessity for forethought, it is key, imo...

I've actually participated in planning meetings where the goal is to look at the proposed responses from the candidate and come up with the worst case scenario as to them being misunderstood, misused, etc. You put yourself in the shoes of both those you want to convince to support your candidate and those who oppose and see what is the worst thing that can happen. You plan for vocal opposition, in some cases even hope for it at public meetings because, if you/your candidate is well prepared that opposition can actually help you clarify your message, see the holes in your message, etc.

A smart campaign plans for both the immediate and the longer term when it comes to responding during the campaign. ' What will come back to bite me in the ass?' kind of planning.

Watching President Obama speak during a time of unrest, concern is a lesson on how to actually switch within one's 'head' to the 'worst case scenario' mode as he chooses his words. He is a master at it, imo.

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Response to Spazito (Reply #108)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 06:42 PM

110. Ahhh ...

 

You participated in developing strategic/communication plans! That is what I do for a living (well ... Part of my job). The toughest part of that is brainstorming the objections/obstacles, when everyone in the room is sold on the one best solution.

I've found this is usually not because the best solution has been found; but, because the loudest/most influential person in the room/organization has settled on the plan.

In such instances, I send that person to get coffee, doughnuts, and a left-handed number 2 pencil with blue lead ... While the rest of the team works. 😊
O

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #110)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 06:53 PM

111. LOL, love your solution!

Getting the nitpickers to participate has been successful for me most of the time because if there is a fault, even the tiniest one, they will find it, it is their mission in life.

Another strategy I have used is the originator of the response is not a participant in the beginning because they try to do the fix verbally, clarifying what has been pointed out as unclear, arguing against the criticism being put forward and stifling the free flow of ideas.

I am a visual learner rather than an aural one so prefer to incorporate both in any sessions in which I have the lead.

I admit I loved doing it, it became a passion, one I still practice on a much smaller scale.

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Response to Spazito (Reply #68)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 08:25 PM

120. exactly

and the response that you weren't a true believer anyway, like there is some religious test. If you can't walk over hot coals you're not part of the club. Don't they get the idea is to increase his popularity, not to make it harder to support him?

With a different collection of supporters, I could well have been a Sanders supporter. I was seriously considering him at first. No longer. Though I must say I saw the signs early on and said so.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #120)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 08:38 PM

121. Yes, it's not the base that needs convincing, they are already on board...

it's the undecided and the leaning voters supporters need to reach and hectoring people using dismissive, ugly rhetoric sends them fleeing in the opposite direction.

Protests and opposition to one's preferred candidate should be expected, it's part of the process and actually helps strengthen candidates, imo, not weaken them unless they haven't been prepared and respond badly.

I find Senator Sanders message fine but too narrow, as yet. He is broadening his issues and that's a good thing but his supporters are doing more damage than good in trying to wrap him in cotton wool and going on full attack mode at the slightest criticism, imo.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 10:56 AM

69. This is sickening, offensive and should not be happening on DU. I am ashamed of decision to leave

post when really vile comments are made, these surely are not by true Democrats. Getting past some of the comments surely will not be easy.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 01:58 PM

75. Mission accomplished!

I do not support the actions or goals of the Seatlle disruptors. I continue to support BLM and Bernie Sanders.

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Response to noiretextatique (Reply #75)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 03:28 PM

87. The "Seattle disruptors" ARE BLM. nt

 

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 02:13 PM

76. As a Sanders supporter I am heartbroken over this.

And for what it's worth let me apologize for the brutish behavior of some Sanders supporters. And I mean that from the bottom of my heart. What we don't need now is a fracture in the progressive community that could lead to an opening for the Republicans. I think we can all agree that if they could somehow pull off a victory in 2016 it would be a great tragedy for people of all races but especially for already oppressed members of minority communities..

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 02:41 PM

80. Kick and rec; beautifully written by Imani Gandy.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 02:46 PM

82. Damnnn!!!! ...

 

I believe she has said everything that needs to be said on that ... she has answered every charge and every questioning doubt.

For those that didn't ... read the whole damned thing. And for those, that wish/claim to be allies ... read it twice, print it out 2 copies, pit one in your wallet and the other under your pillow.

)

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #82)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 02:57 PM

85. Good Advice!

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #82)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 03:34 PM

89. Agree, I must ashamedly admit I did not go to the link and read the whole article until...

I read your post, I totally agreed with the excerpt and went no further. A lesson learned because once I did as you recommended I was completely blown away and have added her and the site itself to my bookmarks as must reads.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 03:54 PM

92. This is an excellent piece of commentary. Read the entire thing!

To those primarily white and non-Black progressives spreading conspiracy theories about #BlackLivesMatter being funded by Soros or paid by the Clinton campaign as if it is so unfathomable that a group of Black women would be politically savvy enough to organize protests without backing from a rich white savior like Soros or the Clintons—I can only say that your behavior is fundamentally anti-progressive and practically indistinguishable from the behavior of your average Tea Partier or Rush Limbaugh enthusiast.

And to those white and non-Black progressives who are not buying into the more outlandish conspiracy theories, but are nevertheless criticizing the protests as rude, ineffective, stupid, or inconvenient, and who have penned articles offering entirely unwanted and unneeded advice to these brave Black women, I will only say this: Your opinion doesn’t matter.

As Monique Teal recently wrote for Daily Kos,

Posting that you don’t understand the strategy behind a tactic exposes you as clinging to white supremacy. Allies don’t decide the strategy of an oppressed group, they support the strategy said group develops. Period. Stop telling us that we need your validation of our humanity. Because that’s what you’re saying every time you talk about “strategy.” You can house your privilege in a thousand ways but ultimately, telling people to shut up because you don’t like what they are saying and how they are organizing makes you an oppressor.

You may be inclined to point to disagreement among Black people about the tactics of the #BlackLivesMatter activists and glom on to that disagreement to voice your own disagreement.

Don’t.

There is certainly disagreement within the movement about tactics, but that’s a conversation to be had by and among Black people about the liberation of Black people. It’s simply not your place.

That is not to say that we as Black people do not welcome white allies. Of course we do. But that allyship cannot be conditioned upon respectability politics or upon Black people acting in a way that makes you comfortable or else. That’s not allyship. That’s a threat.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 04:29 PM

94. Two things ...

 

1). If someone reads this and feelspissed off ... She is talking directly to you;
2). Can an OP be rec'd more than once?

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #94)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 05:04 PM

100. LOL, so true.

We've been discussing these matters here in this group for a while now. What is it, at least six months or so. If one looks back at posts here, they can see it going back to the first posts here in this group (long before I started participating). They can see it in the deeper history of progressive movements. Voices being shut out, ignored or patronized. It's nothing new.

What's funny to me is how many of the same folks that this article is discussing don't read these kinds of articles, don't read this forum, don't read history. They get all up in their feelings and keep on speaking with 'authority' about stuff, and remain oblivious to the other voices that have been saying this same kind of thing for years. They react too defensively to our posts. And of course as a result, they completely miss valuable articles like this one. Or even if they read it they react so defensively that they completely miss the educational value of them. So, they go right on ahead, behaving like boorish clowns.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 05:00 PM

99. I finally got a chance to read the whole article too.

Wow, fabulous. I forwarded it to an organizer I know that I've been in discussion with over these issues. This pretty much nailed everything.

I know people have been focused on the election piece of this, and making it a candidate vs. candidate fight, and honestly this goes deeper than that. The electorate is getting much less white on the progressive side, and as Angry Black Lady rightly points out, Black women are the most loyal left-wing voters. Our political organizing space needs to decenter whiteness, like she said, and white people are going to have to get over not being at the head of the table all the time.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #99)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 05:10 PM

102. Precisely, SM.

It goes way deeper than one candidate. Way past one primary season. Way past one election cycle. It's good that this is being exposed. A lot of white self-described progressives need to get over their reluctance at having other people as the head of table. And at the dinner. And as part of the damn conversation. There ain't no going back. The ones who continue acting defensive and arrogant and boorish - they are the ones making complete jackasses of themselves. They are the ones who will be left behind to the dustbins of history. Thank goodness.

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Response to lovemydog (Reply #102)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 05:27 PM

103. I love your sig line!

Just saw that. Yeah, I've been wondering the past couple of days how much of this reaction to BLM is a dawning realization that there is going to be power sharing going forward. Some people aren't taking the news well.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #103)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 05:53 PM

106. Haha, thanks.

Yeah, I've been wondering that as well. I've noticed it most in conversing here at DU. They don't notice how condescending they come off. They don't read the AA group. They feel threatened when anyone speaks outside their comfort zone. That being people complimenting them for being self-described progressive. They react poorly to criticism even when it's meant as constructive. They take it as personal and react with hostility instead of introspection.

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Response to lovemydog (Reply #102)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 07:35 PM

114. Well said, lmd. "There ain't no going back."

From your lips to God's ears. I hope to God you are right.

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Response to Number23 (Reply #114)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 08:11 PM

117. I hope so too Number23.

As for the concerns of black lives matter - they're too real & urgent to go back.

Regarding the conversational tone - the problem is with white progressives acting uptight. It's their problem. They're like 'Get off my lawn.' It doesn't keep us from talking. We have more in common with each other than we do with those cranks. It's not even their lawn.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #99)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 05:57 PM

107. That is going to be a problem ...

 

"Decentering white" runs in direct conflict of white supremacy/privilege, whether recognized or not.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #107)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 06:13 PM

109. It's already happening though, I think.

What else could explain the insanity? The last time I saw white internet/lefty attacks this ugly were two different events where Black feminists criticized some racist statements and actions from white feminists.

Sometimes those internet fights finally die out and people go back to their corners, some white people learn things. But we can't keep doing this to Black people. People are really dying, and the stakes are higher. I don't know what the answers are.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #107)

Tue Dec 8, 2015, 04:22 PM

143. And we're still working on "decentering male." n'/t

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 08:50 PM

122. K&R - Message Received nt

 

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 09:47 PM

123. I agree with Imani Gandy

Voting against the candidate whose political positions are most in alignment -- not because of anything the candidate himself did or said, but because some of his followers are insensitive jerks -- is irrational.

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Response to Martin Eden (Reply #123)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 10:00 PM

124. Good thing she relented and came to her senses, right?

Gee, how could she have possibly thought otherwise for even a split second?

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #124)

Thu Aug 13, 2015, 12:25 AM

128. She made a lot of sense throughout the post

Everything she described about her own feelings and reactions as well as the behavior of others (including members of BLM and the Sanders supporters who incited her to declare she'd vote against him out of spite) demonstrated a good understanding of human nature, though perhaps not a full understanding of all parties involved.

Ultimately, human nature is what it boils down to in the very contentious, very personal, and sometimes mob-oriented world of politics. None of the "sides" in this ugly episode can lay any special claim to being more enlightened or compassionate or wise than the other "side" (I'm using quotation marks because we're very much on the same side in the larger context of what we want America to become). You'll find a wide range of qualities among individuals in any group, but the larger the population the more the curve flattens out.

In the long run (hopefully in the shorter run) this will be a learning experience in which many people (alas, it will never be all people) involved learn important lessons and gain a better understanding of each other and how we can work together in common cause. Before Seattle there was a lot of anger for a multitude of reasons, and I'm sad to say we have since been directing far too much of it at each other.

Not being a PoC myself, I can never fully understand what it's like to walk miles and years in those shoes. I can only speak for myself as someone whose passion for politics began in the 1960's with the Civil Rights movement and the Vietnam war. Witnessing what's happened to our country since then with Reagan, GW Bush, the Iraq war, and the growing inequality & oligarchy, my own feelings are a mix of grief, disgust, powerlessness, and anger. In that respect I'm sure I'm like many other white progressives. I've lost faith in the Democratic process and the political establishment (including the Democratic Party) as a means for achieving significant progress towards social & economic justice. I've refrained from placing too much hope in any politician, but as far as I can tell Bernie Sanders is the real deal. His policies align very closely with my own, and I think he's principled & honest.

Given human nature, it's not surprising (and probably predictable) how the pent-up anger boiled over when his appearance was disrupted in Seattle. I'm not making any excuses or defending the ugliness that ensued. After observing politics and people in this country for 50+ years, I'm saying I'm not surprised -- especially in this cyber age of internet forums lacking face to face human contact.

I think Bernie Sanders will take what happened in Seattle and learn from it by ensuring his campaign more fully embraces the concerns of BLM.

Sanders supporters, myself included, need to do the same.

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Response to Martin Eden (Reply #128)

Thu Aug 13, 2015, 05:22 AM

129. Ms. Gandy was pitch perfect throughout the entire piece...

She laid out a comprehensive, step-by-step analysis of the issue, including documented links which imparted concrete validity to every single thing she outlined. That's the consensus of members of this group, be they POC or Non-POC.

From the beginning, going back to the first moment that Democrats were challenged on their positions, or lack of positions and policy proposals needed to abolish white supremacy in this country, as a strategy to save black lives, it was crystal clear that both Sanders and O'Malley were both ill-prepared and some-what unwilling to address the black women who had confronted them at that moment.

Well, neither of them are perfect, thus it was established that both candidates and campaigns had plenty of room for improvement. That's not a problem for either party, it's just the way it is. Some may not have liked the way in which these black women employed their own tactics, however, anyone coming from a position of privilege has absolutely no right whatsoever to criticize how and when those in disadvantaged positions choose to seek their own liberation.

If anything, the virulently negative reaction of Sanders' mostly white supporters was indicative of the fact that they regarded the BLM protesters' concerns, not from those of black people calling out for justice and an end to having our blood spilled in the streets at the hands of mostly white police, but rather than from their own white racial experiences and perspectives. Simply because such a concern would weigh more heavier and elicit more of a sense urgency with black people than it would with mostly white liberal crowds, right? Of course! Those black women are not living within a cocoon of white normality, free to only dabble in addressing racial injustice at will and they have no obligation whatsoever to protect it. Their reality is one in which black lives are snuffed out every single day. For them, the name of Sandra Bland has special meaning… And that's not the only name indeed.

It was also quite clear that those mostly white liberal crowds were incensed that the very subject of racial injustice was brought up at all. And of course, with that sort of crowd, a hostile reaction should have been expected. After all, we all live within a society defined by and for the benefit of white supremacy, it's always been that way. Under such a system, discussions about racial injustice are normally regarded as taboo subjects.

In your mention of "sides," each with their own group dynamics, on one side, it should be noted that we had a small group of passionate and intelligent black women advocating for an end to racial injustice on one end and on the other, (those who were screaming invectives at these women), we had people who'd rather do what they can to protect their own sense of privilege and entitlement rather than listen what was said to them. The first and foremost concern of those black women was not that of protecting the feelings of the mostly white liberals screaming at them, demanding that they be tased, as what happened in Seattle. Their main concern was that of black lives.

Most whites in this country, unfortunately, are woefully illiterate in terms of discussing race. These aren't my words, they're those of a white woman who has taken the time and effort to explain why that's the case. http://www.salon.com/2015/04/10/white_americas_racial_illiteracy_why_our_national_conversation_is_poisoned_from_the_start_partner/

White supremacy in this country is the responsibility of its white beneficiaries. A small group of passionate, intelligent and defiant black women can make demands, even on the most liberal candidate of the bunch, but it will not end white supremacy and privilege, and even if this candidate is offered up as the most ideal by his or her fervent supporters. But the most important point is, in spite of the inability of these black women to abolish white supremacy and regardless of all of the hostility heaped upon them by such a candidate's supporters, we are now discussing this very matter. Sanders, at the behest of those black women, and in spite of his own supporters, has taken steps to make his own campaign address the issue.

All-in-all, the tactics were both worthwhile and effective for all involved. The party has been urged to do something about systemic white supremacy, which has cost so many black lives in this country, now they will be expected to do more than to offer lip service. It's about time that issues surrounding racial injustice finally become centered around POC of color. No amount of invective from angry crowds of white liberals or even conservatives will force these issues back into insignificance. If we had only listened to the candidate supporters and had repressed the voices of black women calling out the names of those lost to racial injustice, we most certainly would not have imparted as much importance and urgency onto the matter as we have now.

The candidates and the party have made a proper correction, bending towards justice. It's about time that their most loyal and active supporters do the exact same.









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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #129)

Thu Aug 13, 2015, 04:45 PM

133. Thank you for the long, thoughtful reply

And also for the link to Robin Diangelo's essay, which definitely provides some food (more like a large meal) for thought.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 10:23 PM

126. +1 n/t

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 11:19 PM

127. KnR

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Thu Aug 13, 2015, 11:16 AM

130. kick for truth

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Thu Aug 13, 2015, 11:27 AM

131. Kick & Recommended.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Thu Aug 13, 2015, 01:15 PM

132. Thank you, MrScorpio!

Excellent post, excellent points made within it. A LOT to think about. It's always painful when dirty little secrets are opened up to the sunlight and fresh air. Even when some of those dirty little secrets are ours. I never thought racism would be something that ran under the surface of liberal or progressive communities. But it's quite clear that it does.

This is truly one of those circumstances that illustrates the metaphor of the pointing finger. One finger of the subject's hand points out. The other fingers curl back so they're pointing in at the subject him/herself.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Thu Aug 13, 2015, 09:30 PM

135. thank you for this

The title hit the nail on the head. There is an ugly undercurrent here on DU right now and it's nice to see it articulated so thoughtfully. It saddens me to see so-called liberals and progressives engage in such ugly, prejudicial behavior.

After lurking here for years, I felt it was necessary to step out of the shadows and add my voice to the choir crying foul. This sh*t is WRONG on so many levels and it needs to stop- human lives are worth more than bruised egos.

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