New to DU and new here. Also a question about optics

[Rebkeh]

First, about Bernie. Yes, I am black and a Bernie supporter - I don't know if that will get me into trouble here. Don't care either.

I am voting for him. I am, as they say, "feelin the bern" but not for the reasons most cited. I am less of an issues voter than I am a values voter. My eye is more on trends than anything - meaning the way progress develops for everyone. If it's bad for poc, it's definitely going to be bad for everyone else in the long run. Anyway... I digress.

My question about optics is this - would it be a bad idea for Bernie, or his supporters, to cite Dr. King when speaking about socialism and socialistic positions?

Here's how it went - I made a suggestion to Bernie supporters in another, mostly white, forum about framing socialism. The main discussion had been about how Bernie messed up by bringing up European examples of why socialism is not a scary thing. Many suggested using FDR's policies, and even a quote by Lincoln, as examples instead. I suggested that if they were going to go down that road, to be very clear about inclusion regarding black people. 'Back in the day' nostalgia is unlikely to resonate. I know if it were me, I'd probably shut down and stop listening. That and I have no desire to get into yet another argument about why it's about so much more than class/poverty.

I then realized that Dr. King probably may be a good person to cite, but that is a fine line to walk. I myself hesitate to walk it because his legacy is still being co-opted. That and because I don't feel qualified to say as much because I have not personally studied his work. I did suggest it as an option to look into though. I got several responses from my post. One was that FDR's Four Freedoms are very much aligned with Dr. King's work. Also, a couple of links.

http://borgenproject.org/martin-luther-king-quotes-poverty/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/obery-m-hendricks-jr-phd/the-uncompromising-anti-capitalism-of-martin-luther-king-jr_b_4629609.html

So - bad optics or no? I am sure Symone Sanders has already thought of this, but I don't exactly have her on my contacts list. My take is that Bernie should leave it to black supporters to do it. He himself getting up there is a bad look, or am I over thinking it?

I hate that I even have to think about this at all.

[JustAnotherGen]

1. Citing him might be a problem

He was shoved down our throats this summer (not a DU thing everywhere).

For me - if that's the best you got when he's been dead for almost 50 years - you've got a problem.

Here's the thing - and I did an extensive list on this -

Do you knw what the "I Am A Man Campaign" was about?

For those of us who know our history we flinch when we read or hear - Well at the end it wasn't about race it was about workers rights.

What these folks don't realize - Those were black garbage men in TN. Their own union was racist and against them. Worked to the bone and still in welfare.

Then you have to look at WHY a white garbage man in the South or anywhere didn't have to care about those you know what's.

They could stand on the porch of a white homeowner in inclement weather (not enough room for all in the cab).

The black men who died that sparked this movement - were in the back of the truck - it malfunctioned. They died.

Their survivors didn't even get the level of benefits - White Male Union Members received.


What's this thing about a rising tide?

Maybe black folks have been shown what people are who believe this for too long and we aren't buying it anymore.

I would not use free this and free that.

I would preach prosperity, skill building, education, getting up then reaching back down.

Here's the thing -


You don't need white America's permission to do jack shit. And if they shut you down -


Well then you know.

BTW - I'm O'Malley all the way. He won't get in my way.

[1StrongBlackMan]

4. Actually ...

They could stand on the porch of a white homeowner in inclement weather (not enough room for all in the cab).

The white driver(s) didn't have to retreat to a porch, the cab had more than enough room for the one (possibly, two) driver(s); but, the union rules prohibited the Black workers from entering the cab ... period.

[JustAnotherGen]

5. And was this private corporation 1Strong?

Why no!

It was a government entity.

City workers.

Crazy world eh?

[1StrongBlackMan]

7. You got it! n/t

[Number23]

14. "if that's the best you got when he's been dead for almost 50 years - you've got a problem."

And that's really all that needs to be said re: this weird and needlessly combative OP.

Black people and clued in whites have been saying this for MONTHS. That ALL of the candidates need to step up to the plate on race issues. And if the best you got to offer is something that happened 50 years ago, hang it up and go home.

[Rebkeh]

17. Weirdly combative?

Huh? I wasn't trying to sell Bernie here. I don't need to do that, I was asking for another perspective on an issue.

To clarify:

What I wanted to know is if instead of saying something like, "Socialism is not what you think it is, one of our greatest Presidents saved the country from spiraling out of control by applying socialistic policies." To include black folks in that ... I'd say or add Dr. King and his views are aligned with these policies, which is factually true. But it being factually true doesn't mean it's a smart move. I would not be offended at all, but that's me. Would it be offensive?

[Number23]

21. It was the "will this get me in trouble here and I don't care if it does" bit that was needlessly

combative.

And as many have already said, MLK has been whitewashed and co-opted (it's gotten so out of hand that even the dumbest, most half-literate racists LOVE quoting MLK) so much using his words unfortunately don't have nearly the impact that they should.

And why do you think you have to use a black person to appeal to other black people anyway??

[Rebkeh]

25. I'm still confused

My question was based on any person, black or white but most likely white, were to explain socialism using MLK's similar themes as FDR. It would be different coming from a black person but that's not even what I was talking about.

How you got from there to there is weird to me.

[Number23]

26. And it was explained to you. Over and over again

And you did mention using black people to appeal to other blacks with your "he should leave it to his black supporters" to spread the word about MLK. Or don't you remember what you wrote??

Beginning to see why this post has no recs.

[Rebkeh]

16. I like O'Malley,

he's just not my first choice.

The shoving the Reverend down our throats all summer, I got sick of it as well. I think it's a matter of priorities that differ, for some the economic issues are universal ("lifting all boats&quot but for others staying alive takes precedence. You won't get any argument from me on that.

But that's not what I was getting at anyway - I was saying that when "selling" Bernie, some are saying to avoid comparing the U.S. to other countries because nobody cares what other countries do. Because Bernie needs to find another way to explain socialism, specifically, some are telling him to use FDR as an example of how great socialistic policies are and how well they work.

But - did they work for black folks? Not exactly. They could have, had they been applied to all Americans, but didn't. FDR is not going to be a very good selling point to some of us. People deep in poli sci/history as a study will already have a grasp, but they don't need the education anyway.

What I wanted to know is if instead of saying something like, "Socialism is not what you think it is, one of our greatest Presidents saved the country from spiraling out of control by applying socialistic policies." To include black folks in that ... I'd say, or add that Dr. King and his views are aligned with these policies, which is factually true. But it being factually true doesn't mean it's a smart move. Personally, I wouldn't be offended, but that's me.

[JustAnotherGen]

32. The not comparing to other countries I agree with

And it goes to the black American experience.

We started as selfish wealthy colonists who over turned our Monarchy. The best "other example" since they overturned the power of the same country is India. But that wasn't the wealthy who made it happen there - disconnect.

When they overturned the power structure three things remained in place -
People as commodities - Slaves/Black Americans
People removal to benefit the expansion of commerce - Natives
People Indentured to support commerce - Indentured Servants . . . Many from what is now Great Britain.

All three allowed for Capitalism to be cemented in our culture. That's why on the face of the I Am A Man Garbage men movement it appears to be a move towards labor/socialism -

But in reality it was a move against the government of that city, state, country to treat all EARNERS equally. To a fair wage for a black man who might have liked to support his family without dependence on social welfare programs.

You have to contrast their desire to make a buck and live independently with the White Male City, State, Country Union employees who COULD support their families.

It was about equal access to capital so they could build wealth. It was about their wives and children being able to rely on the government he paid taxes to - in the event of his death on the job. So - his children had a shot in the US.

People say - well some do - that The Great Gatsby is the great American novel. It's about desire - one being to be a part of the "American Dream". I say - that American Dream of prosperity and affluence - a decent life - it was never ours.

Until a shot rang out . . .

[JustAnotherGen]

2. Here's why I caution you about going down the socialism path

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=495134


^^^^^ the movement was about the dollars ^^^^^^^^

[tishaLA]

3. here is a good place to start re: philosophy

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/01/remembering-martin-luther-king-jrs-solution-to-poverty/283193/

And it points you to a place to look for Dr King's own articulation of his economic principles.

As for the optics...I'm not entering that discussion. But I think the more pressing issue is to be thoroughly informed about his position, preferably from primary sources, before you (one).begins appropriating him for contemporary political campaigns.

[Rebkeh]

18. Great article

and I'd love for Bernie, or Hillary for that matter, to bring forth a Universal Income for all but it would never get through Congress. He might, though it's unlikely, be able to pull it off near the end of his second term. Maybe?

You are right that I should know more about Dr. King's specific positions if I am going to talk about them, but I think in this case, a general understanding that his policies were more progressive than neoliberal is enough for this specific purpose. I wish someone like MHP would discuss a comparison with an expert panel on her show, but MSNBC is clearly in Hillary's camp so I won't hold my breath. The network is barely giving Bernie any press as it is.

To be clear, I am not talking about using Dr. King's legacy to sell a politician, I'm talking about using his legacy to educate about socialism as an economic model. Personally, I see no harm in the intent to educate, but the impact? I don't see it as appropriation ... well, if Bernie himself got up on stage and did that.. not a good look. But every day folks?

[tishaLA]

28. So you ask the question...

"would it be a bad idea for Bernie, or his supporters, to cite Dr. King when speaking about socialism and socialistic positions? " ad then admit that you aren't really up to snuff on what Dr King's positions were, and then say you want to use "his legacy to educate about socialism as an economic model," even though a "a general understanding" about the differences between King's ideas and neoliberalism is sufficient.

So you want to "cite" him why, again? Maybe I've been in academia too long, but citation to my mind requires a relationship with the actual arguments--not an "as told by" account. I don't want to sound harsh here, but it sounds like you are attempting to use Dr King as window dressing and, in fact, it is entirely an appropriation because you can make that argument about neoliberalism and socialism without ever invoking Dr King's name

[1StrongBlackMan]

6. Welcome to DU ...

Being Black and a Bernie supporter won't get you into any trouble here (i.e., the AA Group) ... we have all flavors here, supportive of all three of the remaining candidates.

My only concern with the optics of citing to The Reverend's Socialist leanings is, as you mention, his legacy has been so white-washed, as to have last all of its original flavor ... and it's being done with that, particular, end in mind ... to substitute their message for his.

If you stick around DU long enough, you will see what I mean, and by whom, and will clearly see their objective.

Better, DU:google - Martin Luther King + economics. It will be eye-opening, if not, disgusting.

Again ... Welcome. Come on in ... the water is just fine.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/118729552 vs. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=687330

[Rebkeh]

19. The first link

I had seen and it's actually why I felt like I could come here and ask a potentially hot and misunderstood question. The second link demonstrates why I would hesitate.

[1StrongBlackMan]

8. Something just struck me ...

Why would you think being Black and a Bernie supporter would get you into trouble here (in the AA Group)?

[JustAnotherGen]

10. Someone must have told her?

According to the general population only HRC supporters are allowed back here.

Really - O'Malley is my first choice.

And funny - I belong and post to the HRC forum (she's my second choice) and I get along quite well there too. They are very open to people who aren't hostile to the very name - Hillary. If you want to have a discussion about her positives and strengths you go there -

Not te AfAm Group at DU.

[Rebkeh]

20. For a couple of reasons

First, from my mobile I can't see profile pictures and most names here don't indicate race. Many anti-Bernie sentiments go around DU in general and I was not inclined to dig that deep and take notes on who said what. Now that I am on a computer, I see more race specific identifiers.

Also, because of the hot debates, BernieSoBlack, etc all summer. I didn't know if all that had died down in DU yet.

Thirdly, because according to many sources, Bernie is not doing well with blacks in general. There's a pro Bernie group in SC I think, but that's the extent of my knowledge. I'm somewhat isolated from the outside world but online it appears Hillary's got the AA vote locked. In my neighborhood - it's all Trump (somebody help me, please)

[bravenak]

27. I loved bernie when I posted berniesoblack!

I can see why you thought what you thought.

Bernie is not doing well with blacks because it takes YEARS to build a large coalition of blacks. Tell your grassroots friends to look up how long it took MLK to get enough people in his movement to do a march that large on Washington. Once they know, ask them why they think Bernie deserves tgat coalition. When they inevtable tell you 'he marched with Dr. King!' Tell them take the number of blacks alive then, then to subtract the number of blacks who have since died or forgot or stopped caring about the sixties, then subtract the number who are a part of the Obama coalition, and they will see that he has just the right number of blacks.

If black folks continue to get spammed or bothered with Cornel West videos and cries of race card by his grassroots, he will never get one more voter.

[JustAnotherGen]

9. Giving this to you again - I see 1strong did first

Its a real rip doozy!  

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=687330

Also I just read a post in a thread by a member who has a 16 year old son - she's afraid with Clinton we will reinstate the draft.or worse - her son's only option will be the military . . . Like in that poster says - we see in the minority community.


So -

Middle America, now it's a tragedy
Now it's so sad to see, an upper class city
Having this happening (this happening)...

[Kind of Blue]

11. I'm not sure of your age but

using Dr. MLK, Jr. is not just about being co-opted but was laughable as a piece of pandering at least 25 years ago. I remember an "In Living Color" episode of Miss Black Person USA, when each contestant, no matter the question, used MLK, Jr. So the immediate "so what" popped into my mind as well when BS proclaimed his march with Dr. King. In my area, it was just a far gone conclusion that it's comedy. And the cluelessness continued until Sanders was forced to address BLM.

I'm a values voter, too, and it's the value of a life, just breathing that concerns me the most. What good did an education and on her way to a good job do for Sandra Bland? What good does it do for me when my my last driving while black stop was over a year ago, and I luckily evaded a predator cop just in April? This was thanks, by the way, to a white guy who understood my predicament and played along.

The one thing I feel will resonate with black voters is understanding that BS cares as much about actual PoC breathing as he does about economic justice. And I'm not sure if he's blown it yet, we've still got a year to go. But I'm leary becuase, Jeeze, I've gone to Symone Sander's FB page - his go-to person on black people - and it's practically fluff. I can't believe still now she's talking about handbags, hanging out with a friend in Las Vegas, Michelle Obama, Paul Ryan for Christ sake-who cares about Ryan???, and little about Sanders.

We get economic justice, as far as I'm concerned. It's wonderful. It's beautiful. But I don't get someone who seems careless about my vote unless he's pressed. What is the risk in taking such a stance? His campaign at first seemed like a humanity movement but he sure was repeatedly terribly slow in addressing mine and that is the problem, it's stuck.

Honestly, if you don't care to get into anymore arguments about why it's so much more than class/poverty, then I'm not really interested. That is the point and we can't tire of it, IMO. And I can't imagine using MLK, Jr's economic stance will do anything, because he fought brutality and deaths as strongly as he fought for economic issues. Shoot, I remember seeing an interview, just out of jail, with a huge lump on his forehead. Please, read his "Letter from a Birmingham Jail" to get a fuller picture of MLK, Jr. It was not an either socialism/economic justice or life movement. I think black people will resonate strongly if BS can convey that message.

And I also suggest teaming up with other black BS supporters, who feel the Bern, might be more helpful http://inthesetimes.com/article/18405/building-black-support-for-bernie

[Number23]

15. "So the immediate "so what" popped into my mind as well when BS proclaimed his march with Dr. King."

You and every moderately intelligent person in the universe. "So what??" and "And???" was what most of us said.

Jeeze, I've gone to Symone Sander's FB page - his go-to person on black people - and it's practically fluff. I can't believe still now she's talking about handbags, hanging out with a friend in Las Vegas, Michelle Obama, Paul Ryan for Christ sake-who cares about Ryan???, and little about Sanders.

Do we know if she's still officially with the campaign?? I have not heard a literal peep from this woman since she joined his campaign in August.

[Kind of Blue]

22. Yeah, she's still officially with the campaign.

I've checked her FB page since August and there's more daily Sanders news from any one of my friends than Symone Sanders ever posts. I was hopeful and thought she'd be a lot more active after her intro this summer, hitting key points in speeches and interviews. Being an activist who led protests and advised BS before she was hired to update his message to AAs, she seems to be managed and more optics after she was hired.

[Rebkeh]

23. Thanks for the link

I haven't been on FB in months, I have to be in a certain place in my head to withstand the toxicity there. I didn't know about Symone's page, didn't consider it at all.

Breathing comes first, I can respect that. I've been aware of Bernie for years so when he announced he was going to run, I was behind him immediately. He does need to step up his game on the race front though, and I am confident that he will. His stance on guns could be stronger as well, but my priorities have to do with progress - actual, real progress as a collective nation. It's the progressivism vs neoliberalism for me, one is clearly better than the other. The civil rights struggle is definitely a priority but my vote will always be based on a broader, inclusive perspective. That's just how I roll.

To be fair, every criticism of Bernie in this context can also be applied to Hillary.

It's not that I avoid the class/poverty argument, I take it when it comes up and I will argue all day. Of course. But it's that when I am specifically trying to explain the meaning of socialism to a potential Bernie voter, that argument doesn't get me anywhere. That specific topic has little to do with educating about the big, bad S word.

I have read Letter from Birmingham, it's not like I woke up black yesterday.

Oh, and I'm in my 40's.

[Kind of Blue]

29. I agree with you that progressivism is better

than neoliberalism and I was totally with Sanders, relieved to have a clear choice. And then...

I think what we're really hearing is mostly about the broader perspective and less on the inclusion. That's why my priority is based on how meaningfully inclusive the candidates are. Just the opposite side of the coin. I was trying to point out why I believe you may not be getting anywhere with potential supporters, and suggest specifically targeting other black Sanders supporters for more help/brainstorming.

I suggested that you read Letter from a Birmingham jail because you said "I myself hesitate to walk it," as far as citing MLK as BS tried and failed, "because his legacy is still being co-opted. That and because I don't feel qualified to say as much because I have not personally studied his work."

So suggesting the Letter had nothing to do with waking up black yesterday. It was just clear that you have not studied his work to see how progressivism and BLM were linked in Dr. King's movement.

The age thing was because I thought (1) much younger blacks than me were quick to see the pandering - perhaps without even knowing the years of the schtick and (2) older blacks who know of Sanders don't really see him in an important civil rights role. So I thought may be it's a much younger age thing that you didn't see it/feel it the way many of us do or did, that saying he marched with MLK all those years ago was a weird way of claiming cred.

[kwassa]

12. MLK is not a magic racial trump card.

Unfortunately, he is often used that way, by many different people with many different agendas. If he is quoted selectively, he can be seen to support all those different agendas.

Using MLK has also been ruined by some Bernie supporters that believed that marching with MLK fifty years ago gives Bernie a free racial pass for the next fifty years.

To which Janet Jackson said,"What Have You Done for Me Lately?"

[onpatrol98]

13. It would be a turn off to me...

It would be just one more thing, cause, person of value co-opted to suit a political purpose or entertainment purpose or whatever is needed at the time. Tell me about policies. I'm a black woman, yes. But, an earlier person was right...the PhD ain't much good if institutionally your life is worth nothing in your country. What would work for me? Since BS has been in politics possibly almost as long as I've been alive...what bills has he put forward to show me that the lives of me and my sons matter. He may have a treasure trove of bills that targeted minorities community. I think the best indication of what he and other politicians will do tomorrow is a look at what they have done in the past. But, I really don't think BS has much of a legislative history where the AA community is concerned. This doesn't mean he can't be a good president and basically a good man. But I don't think he thought about black lives much until those young women jumped on the stage with him. This doesn't mean I don't think he thinks about equality. I know Bernie believes in equal rights. But, I think it helps his case when a voter sees how his policies can guide a nation into a direction that does not get young girls arrested and thrown out of school desks while another adult watches quietly.

What I kind of get from him now is the rich is getting richer? Well heck, water is wet. To be honest, I'm not rich, but I've got no great hate for rich people. I can't think about Wall Street at a time when police officers are continually pulling my son over to make sure he owns the truck he drives. He does. Hey...maybe I should run for office.

PS. I can respect your good feelings about your candidate. My problem with DU lately is that we've been deemed mentally challenged for simply having reservations about your candidate. But, there are Bernie Sanders supporters in DU AA. Now, tomorrow if you come in like a scene from the Exorcist talking about you don't understand why black people don't know how much Bernie has done for us and don't we know he marched with Dr. King 50 years ago, all bets are off.

[Rebkeh]

24. You clearly are not mentally challenged...

See, I can see why it might be a turn off, it just wouldn't be so for me. Not really, especially if coming from a black person. Hence my question to the AA group.

I'm not here to sell Bernie, I'll answer questions if anyone has any though.

O'Malley is my second choice but I will vote for whoever wins the primary. I am pro Bernie but not necessarily anti-Hillary. I can think of many reasons why I will not vote for Hillary if given another option, and I am very up front about those reasons (see my rants in the Bernie community).

LOL Exorcist... Nah, it's not like that. Well.. maybe if you want to vote for Trump.

[Kind of Blue]

30. "I know Bernie believes in equal rights.

But, I think it helps his case when a voter sees how his policies can guide a nation into a direction that does not get young girls arrested and thrown out of school desks while another adult watches quietly...I can't think about Wall Street at a time when police officers are continually pulling my son over to make sure he owns the truck he drives. He does."

Amen, the sanctity of life.

[Rebkeh]

31. That's just it though

There is a connection between Wall Street and racial profiling.

When focused on civil rights, immediate threats to life and limb and/or keeping our children as safe as we can - yes, I prioritize. Wall St and casino capitalism is a non issue when a child is being beaten.

When deciding a single vote for a President and ALL that it encompasses - the connection matters. A lot. I don't make the distinction, I take a broad view. I also consider a multitude of other issues when choosing a potential president. I feel like I'm 'supposed' to be a single issue voter .... and that is never going to happen. If that's a problem, it's not my problem.

[Kind of Blue]

33. "If that's a problem, it's not my problem."

The good thing and why I like this group is the participants who respect it are not bickering over who they like. They unapologetically like their choices without rancor from other members here.

The only problem I see is the problem you brought here of garnering more black BS supporters.

[Rebkeh]

34. ?? I came here to ask

what I thought was a fairly simple question. Nothing more, nothing less. This whole thread devolved and derailed from said question, despite my repeated efforts to clarify it and stay on point.

Not seeing why this is hard.

Any agenda you see from me is your perception and projection. I've not said word one that would indicate my supposed intentions to garner black Bernie supporters.

[randys1]

35. What did you ask in 25 words or less, again?

[tishaLA]

36. As far as I can tell, its this:

"My question about optics is this - would it be a bad idea for Bernie, or his supporters, to cite Dr. King when speaking about socialism and socialistic positions? "

That despite not knowing exactly WHAT Dr King's positions are, not believing knowledge of his positions are actually necessary, and believing instead that the positions are simply to prove that socialism is better than "neoliberalism" (a term that gets tossed about by people as freely, and incorrectly, as quotations from Dr King). In other words, he's just a trope.

[randys1]

37. Yeah, OK. I dont know the answer anymore, I spend most of my time on here

as a Bernie supporter, fighting with EXTREMISTS who say it is Bernie or they will stay home.

I consider them a serious impediment to survival on earth.

I am losing my patience with them, but since this is DU and the just system exists, I have to be extra careful what I say, as they are watching us constantly hoping to ban us

As a Bernie supporter i was banned from the Bernie group the first day i posted there, or very early on.

Privileged white straight mostly males, are a problem in this country, regardless of the letter after their name

I have rightwing, teaparty terrorists stalking me, and sometimes I wonder who is ultimately going to harm me more, them or the so called liberal who wont vote if they dont get their way.

[Rebkeh]

39. It is, but

with a lot more context than you provided. A trope??? His positions were aligned with socialism, this is a fact. I don't need to have a college level degree in the Reverend's political work to offer a very simple example that would be relatable for a wider demographic. FDR appeals to a narrower subset. But I already explained all this. My question was to see if it would be offensive to AA in general because I personally would not be offended. That's it. Not complex.

Another thing, I'm not talking about a level of conversation with voters in an academic setting - people in such a setting already know the nuanced differences between economic models. I'm talking about casual chatting with every day regular people that imagine Stalin when they hear the word "Socialist." I think FDR is a better face, but MLK could be even better because it applies to a wider range. There. Is. Nothing. Wrong. With. My. Question.

If I gotta walk on eggshells all the time, I won't waste my time here.

[Kind of Blue]

38. Sorry about that. I thought it was your agenda

by posting in this group for opinions. And by saying, "My take is that Bernie should leave it to black supporters to do it," as far as making socialism "not a scary thing," after "Bernie messed up by bringing up European examples of why socialism." And "to be very clear about inclusion regarding black people." And bringing up Symone Sanders, who was clearly hired to stop the PoC backlash.

But what piqued my interest about your response was saying you feel like you're "supposed" to be a single issues voter. I was trying to assure you that people here unapologetically feel however they do about candidates without rancor. And certainly no one has said you should be a "single issues voter." It justed sounded like an answer to a question that was not broached, just out of the blue.

[Rebkeh]

40. I think I see the disconnect

I didn't come in here expecting to feel like I need to justify my perspectives or defend Bernie. What came out of the blue for me was that I apparently have to prove myself instead of simply being taken at face value.

I'm not saying that's the case but it sure seems like it so far.