African American
Related: About this forumRE The term African American
I have a question as to why people on all sides of the political spectrum call blacks AFRICAN American's? They do not know Africa anymore than any white American. Most have never been to Africa. Whites are not called Euro-Americans they're white Americans.
I've always been baffled by that. I hope I am not offending anyone. American should be American and nothing else IMO.
thereismore
(13,326 posts)I am uncomfortable saying white American because we are kind of pink, not white. And you are not black, not literally.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)wildeyed
(11,243 posts)Only for a limited time, I'm sure...
Lucky Luciano
(11,267 posts)I was in Italy last month when my wife referred to an "African American" man - it was just automatic for her, but I quickly mentioned that he most likely wasn't American! He was, in fact, from Africa.
Kind of Blue
(8,709 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Easy to just group together, like white folks did.
Kind of Blue
(8,709 posts)call yourself black!!!
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Honestly I don't mind either and among ourselves anything goes, for me. I like saying Negroe. Dunno why it makes me laugh.
Kind of Blue
(8,709 posts)written, I think was Liberal Stalwart's "Knee-gro." That cracked me up.
Really though, I black is fine with me. Interchangeable, really.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)I remember the switch to african american, but I was already black by that time.
Warpy
(111,437 posts)It's short, simple, easy to write and anybody who doesn't know it's code for Americans whose ancestors were dragged over here from Africa in chains and sold has been living under a rock for 50 years and should probably stay there.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Differentiates us from africans from africa. I mean, what do we call an African immigrant? African american. I never could reconcile that.
Warpy
(111,437 posts)as in Nigerian-America, Senegalese-American, and so forth. People brought here as slaves often don't have the luxury of knowing the places their people were from, given the way families were never recognized and children were so often sold away from their parents.
Kind of Blue
(8,709 posts)my cousins in Europe, most of them born there, call themselves British-Nigerian and German-Nigerian.
brush
(53,971 posts)Last edited Sat Mar 5, 2016, 11:48 AM - Edit history (2)
Irish American = Latino/a American = Asian American, etc. Those terms are quite common so to me it's a non-issue.
African American is a term of pride of ancestry and came into more common usage when young people who had participated in and experienced the black power movement of the '60s, decided to define themselves on their own terms by calling themselves "black" instead of the ugly white originated term "negro" (often pronounced "nigra" by racist whites).
Many made trips to the continent (Africa) and found the people quite warm and friendly towards them, and the country they visited on the continent fascinating and not at all like the stereotypical and degrading "uncivilized jungle" images depicted in racist movies of the day like "Tarzan".
The term "African American", a further self-definition (and our business only really) began to be used in the late '70s-early '80s
I was one of those who made the pilgrimage, more than once actually, (Cameroon, Senegal, Gambia it was considered a "must do", bucket list-kind of thing among young activists in the Bay Area where I lived then).
Now I used both terms, African American and black interchangeably and am proud of both.
Oh, gawd, those movies were awful. I had the advantage, Boston being a port of entry, and met people who had immigrated from all over the continent. Good thing because I never had money, time and health all in the same spot and never got to travel.
Out here in NM, they still use "negro," but only when they're speaking Spanish.
BlueMTexpat
(15,374 posts)bravenak, I am SOO glad to see you back!
I enjoyed your KOS write-ups posted here even though several spoilsports tried to alert-stalk those too.
That c***'s gotta STOP!
So far as I am concerned, you can be whatever and whoever you want to be. Unfortunately, our society labels people but never catches their essence. For me, you are "bravenak" - the courageously outspoken and proud writer who remains undaunted and stands tall. Really glad to see you back here again!
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Hopefully everybody can calm down and keep off the alert button!
sheshe2
(84,057 posts)Boom~
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I may have to spend more time at our place and Kos than here. Otherwise.....
I need my foot in the door here. I want to be able to speak in the groups. This is such a critical time for all of us. Also Obamas last year.
Love you, bravenak.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)The Polack MSgt
(13,203 posts)Welcome back.
You KILLED it on DK the other day.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I tried to keep up with the thread over there but the system keeps messing me up. Glad to be back.
brer cat
(24,646 posts)Glad to have you back among the stalked and poorly treated.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Best place to be!! Nowhere but up from here!
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)I never liked the term "African American" and don't self-identify as such except when were are talking about black people in the United States of America
I always preferred "black"...
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Yeah I'm back until i'm gone again,lol.
Better at other places anyway. Seriously.
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)and you know why I am LOL'ing...but chile, your diaries be wearin' out my sideeye collection, lol
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I really have no idea why anything I say is controversial. I wish somebody could explain EXACTLY what it is. Is it the titles? The captions? I am saying basic ass shit.
Okay. But they get so mad! I'm like? Why? Everybody knows this stuff! You know? Common sense...
Everytime I get that itch to write it I tell myself to message you for the side eye gifs cause I can feel that I just made a big mistake by posting my real thoughts. It's my fatal flaw. Saying shit outloud that is not meant to be said so baldly.
But really. It's like they were looking for something to be peeved about and found me.
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)I think that it's that simple.
I think they mean well (for the most part) but they don't have the necessary facts and information. And then when you give them the necessary facts and information (and I have been harping on the fact that the things that are being said have been said over and over and over and over) they clutch pearls and stick their fingers in their ears.
Maybe they need to choke on those damn pearls for a change, I guess, we've been trying to help them.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)We need more smelling salts and fainting couches. Fiddle dee!
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)lovemydog
(11,833 posts)delighted to see you!
bravenak
(34,648 posts)NEOhiodemocrat
(912 posts)I am glad to see this conversation. The other day I was wondering what term to use. As an older white lady I grew up with the term colored and every time my one daughter hears me use that she is all over me for it and says I should use the term black. I mean no disrespect, the family can't get me to stop saying words from the past in any category. I think my mind is just stuck in the past sometimes As my Mom always said, you can call me anything, just don't call me late for dinner! I will try harder to use the term black, as African American just never seems right to me. Thank for the clarification on a question I was hesitant to ask.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)My family uses various terms but I think black is back for good now. Thank goodness we finally settled on a word so we can stop changing it all the time.
vdogg
(1,384 posts)But use the term AA generally when speaking in groups or writing. I'm indifferent about it though. Either term is fine with me.
wildeyed
(11,243 posts)I have settled on using AA when I am talking policy and abstract demographics, but black when I refer to individual people. If I use AA, then I use EA (European-American) too, for consistency. If I capitalize Black, then I also do that for White, although I see some choose only Black. And I try to be sensitive about what actual black people (I'm white, obviously) involved in the convo are using and follow that lead when possible.
But I am open to suggestions.
Kind of Blue
(8,709 posts)an evolution of taking the power to define ourselves.
I'm from Africa and I remember the day I came home from school, telling my mother I was called a Negro and what does it even mean. She was incensed! And I was stunned by her reaction. "We are African Americans," she said, "Nobody gets to tell us who we are." I'm like, okay, lady. Sorry I asked But I've never called myself anything else. It feels right.
People should define themselves.
ghostsinthemachine
(3,569 posts)and they hate the term. Neither's roots are in Africa. They tell me that every time white people talk to them they want to know "are you black or African American".
I spent the afternoon talking about race with them. Very enlightening to this 60 year old white dude.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)Sounds like it's more personal preference.
Coolest Ranger
(2,034 posts)I am part black, part white, and part Native American, guess what everyone see's when they see a picture of me
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Coolest Ranger
(2,034 posts)fun n serious
(4,451 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Kind of Blue
(8,709 posts)Coolest Ranger
(2,034 posts)me and sexy with this fat body, ROFLAMO
Kind of Blue
(8,709 posts)AA dad/white mom. She calls herself black because she says that's what people see. She loves her genetic makeup but that's what people see.
JustAnotherGen
(32,025 posts)Chakab
(1,727 posts)"Irish," "Italian," "German" etc.?
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)I'm Mexican/American. That's how I identify myself and when I fill out forms that ask my nationally I check 'OTHER" and right in human. I think white people say German, English, Italian... etc out of pride of their ancestors. I don't know for sure.
Chakab
(1,727 posts)specific region/country/ethnic group in Africa due to the nature of the African diaspora, hence the general term "African American" is used.
Question answered.
You're welcome.
Chakab
(1,727 posts)has historically been a pejorative connotation associated with the reference to said skin color.
Not trying to pick a fight, but do you think that most Mexican Americans who have darker complexions would want to be referred to as "browns"? Or Asians as "yellows"? And we know that there is a serious issue with referring to Native Americans as "red skins."
I find it baffling that black people are the only minority group that is forced into this method of characterization.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)I asked politely as some rather be called black. I asked with love and respect. Thank you so much for informing me.
brush
(53,971 posts)Last edited Sat Mar 5, 2016, 12:39 PM - Edit history (2)
During the black power movement of the '60s black people decided to self-define themselves by discarding the ugly white term "negro" (often pronounced "nigra" by racist whites) and began calling themselves "black" as in black and proud.
And as far as a negative conotation, we don't share that opinion at all. Black is the most dominant color in nature you know, and nothing to be ashamed of. It is OUR term.
Later "African-American" came into use after many activists began going to the continent (Africa) and came back with a positive experience from the country on the African continent that they visited that belied the stereotypical and degrading "uncivilized jungle" images depicted in racist movies of the day like "Tarzan".
So please understand, black is beautiful to us, and quite slimming as well.
Who doesn't look good in black?
And btw, I use both African-American and black proudly.
The Polack MSgt
(13,203 posts)With holding on to an identity. Usually a fondly remembered grandparent or other elder would tell stories of the Old Country, and when they did you could hear the capitalization of "Old Country".
So that became part of the ID you carry with you mentally.
Even though I'm mostly Irish, my last name is Polish, hence the Polack MSgt not the Irish MSgt.
Too many white people will say " we should just be Americans, I don't identify as a European American" but if you speak to them for more than a few minutes - They do name themselves ethnically.
Most white folks can break it down to suspiciously specific percentages as well - How the hell are you 20% Lithuanian again?
Me I'm mostly one kind of White (67.5%, I can explain it) with another brand of White and just a sliver (1 Great Grandmother) of an even different kind of White.
In my swim trunks I look like an 80s refrigerator - Glare protection is recommended
lovemydog
(11,833 posts)That Bears team is so 80's to me. The 'Super Bowl Shuffle.' Sweetness. McMahon. Ditka. 'Da Bears.' I digress.
VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)but then again, I also don't know what to call myself. For sheer fact that I'm mixed, and people keep mistaking me for some flavor of Hispanic. (Seriously, I've heard Mexican, Puerto Rican, Dominican, and Cuban so far.)
FrenchieCat
(68,867 posts)Born and raised in France....to a White Mother and Black father....
When I emigrated here there was no such thing as African-American....
or Biracial...
so since, I just stayed Black, cause what I learned early is that
Black is Beautiful!
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)I feel like you all have found the fountain of youth. It seems like you never age. I always envied that.
FrenchieCat
(68,867 posts)Black don't crack! 😀
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)consciouslocs
(43 posts)I use both Black and African American frequently. I tend to prefer AA more for a few reasons. First, I am very involved in family research and tracing my roots and feel that connection through my years of research. Second, being in an interracial marriage fro over 15 years in a family who can trace its roots back to France and Italy, with a mother in law (avid Trump support) who uses the term "the Blacks," it makes me drift more toward the AA.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)So I make sure to post how I despise him on my facebook every chance I get.
Iris
(15,679 posts)It's like no matter what term is used, people who want to marginalize others will find a way to do it.
I've heard similar discussions around the use of the word "queer" when it is embraced by the LGBQT community and when it is not. It's a noun vs. adjective thing, which I don't really get but thought of this when I saw your post.
Digital Puppy
(496 posts)Last edited Thu Mar 3, 2016, 03:25 AM - Edit history (2)
"Uh, oh..."
But it's interesting to see how many people share my approach to the terms AA/Black/Knee-Grow/POC.
Personally, I use "AA" when describing myself at work or in a public setting. I use "Black" when talking or writing informally. I usually use white because that's the radical in me coming out. I know enough Black folk around the world to know you can't use African-American to describe everyone. (For instance one of my favorite athletes is Lewis Hamilton. one of my favorite actors is Idris Elba and one of my favorite late-night comedians is Trevor Noah...can't call them African Americans, can we? We usually don't say African-Brits, either.....)
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)I did not intend for it to be an Uh oh post. Thank you for your very eloquent response.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)as here in the DC suburbs we have such massive immigration from all over the world, that there are many black people here born abroad with different cultural backgrounds.
The irony is that a substantial number are immigrants from Africa, of course.
Example: at a large diverse local high school, the African-American kids are a minority of the black kids in the school. More are from various parts of Africa, the Caribbean, and South America.
Quayblue
(1,045 posts)it's acknowledging slave ancestors from Africa.
even though I have a parent from Ghana, my other parent is a descendant of slaves. I think it's important to acknowledge regardless, as I still experience being black in America.
American is an encompassing term. When being American includes the struggles of everyone despite "identity politics", maybe that will change. It hasn't been that way, going on 500 years for us, less for others.
AND, there is still an African identity... through art, language, spirituality, and so on. We aren't completely removed...don't discount it. And it's a large part of American culture today.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)just as "black" had replaced "negro" and "negro" had replaced "colored".
It was controversial at the time IIRC (I was 12) but seems to have stuck, though it creates some odd issues. A friend of mine in high school was born in Egypt and she wanted to join the African American Student Union but couldn't, despite being the only kid in the high school actually from Africa. (And, to round that out, I find her attempt "interesting" whereas I would find a white Nigerian or Afrikaner's attempt to do that "outrageous trolling".)
This gets to sticking point #1: "black" as a concept is really an artifact of American politics; people in Europe may be Kenyan or Somali but there's not "black" in the sense that there is in the US. (Was St. Augustine "black"? He was African, probably Berber or Tuareg, his skin may have been black or brown but we don't really know because for all of Rome's unspeakable cruelty and discrimination and slavery that just never seems to have been a question that interested them very much.)
An unspoken and controversial caveat is that "African American" for some people really just means descendants of sub-Saharan African slaves (except when it doesn't... like everything on race in the US it gets complicated).
My small town in Mississippi had an all-white private school and an integrated public school. But when the college had a visiting professor from Kenya, his son went to the all-white private school and nobody really thought much about that because while he clearly wasn't "white" he also clearly wasn't "black" in the school's mindset (and obviously "black" wasn't the word people used or thought). They also went to a "white" church.
Anyways, a good run-down of the history of the phrase is here:
http://www.aaregistry.org/historic_events/view/african-american-term-brief-history
Polls show the number of blacks using the term has steadily increased. In a survey that year conducted by ABC and The Washington Post, 66 percent said they preferred the term black, 22 preferred African-American, 10 percent liked both terms and 2 percent had no opinion. In 2000, the Census Bureau for the first time allowed respondents to check a box that carried the heading African-American next to the term black. In 2003, a poll by the same news organizations found that 48 percent of blacks preferred the term African-American, 35 percent favored black and 17 percent liked both terms. The term has become such a fixture in the political dictionary that many white politicians, including President Bush and Senator John Kerry, his Democratic rival in 2004, favored it in their political speeches. Yet Kerry's wife, Teresa Heinz Kerry, who is white, has referred to herself on occasion as an African-American. She was born to Portuguese parents in Mozambique.
Many whites use the term for all blacks. But among blacks there is much less agreement, particularly in places like Maryland where Africans, Haitians and Dominicans mingle in the town's coffee shops, nightclubs and beauty salons, or in neighboring Washington, where the City Council voted this year to include the Ethiopian language Amharic as an official language to accommodate the growing Ethiopian community. Even adherents of African-American acknowledge that shifting demographics have made the term's meaning more unclear. "It's a comfortable term for me personally and for people like me who are of African descent and have been in this nation for a long time," said Michael Lomax, the president of the United Negro College Fund, which raises money for 38 historically black colleges. "But it gets more confusing when you recognize that this nation is full of all kinds of people of African descent." "It's a much richer and more complex variety than when we started asserting that we were African-American," said Lomax, who argues that recent black immigrants from the Caribbean and elsewhere should feel free to use the term.
Foreign-born blacks are also divided. Angelique Shofar, the Liberian-born host of a weekly radio program in Washington called "Africa Meets Africa," prefers to call herself an African, even though she has lived in the United States for 28 of her 39 years. Phillip J. Brutus, the first Haitian-born state legislator in Florida, favors the term black because it includes foreign-born immigrants and black Americans. Brutus lives in Miami, where more than a third of the blacks are foreign born. "African-American has become the politically correct term to use, but I still say black," Brutus said. "I say I'm black and American. That's what's most accurate. I think, by and large, black is more encompassing."
Side note: there are neighborhoods in DC where all the signs are in English, Spanish, and Amharic. It's pretty cool.
wildeyed
(11,243 posts)was in DC. I loved riding the bus and realizing that I and no idea what language people were speaking. It is such a global city. Which neighborhoods have the Amharic signs now?
I didn't realize that Ethiopian community had grown so much. During the 80's, Ethiopians were just starting to move into the area. Adams Morgan was mostly El Salvadorian if you went down Columbia Road a block or two. Everything is so gentrified now, I never know where I am when I visit. It looks familiar, but shinier and with expensive coffee shops where there used to be dive Chinese joints with the cashier behind the bulletproof glass.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)I was living at 13th and Harvard and knew that once the bodega on 14th and Harvard stocked dill havarti cheese, I couldn't afford the rent anymore, so I had a countdown of sorts.
Bulletproof glass went away first, but for a few months bodegas would keep their old inventory, and then would expand to nicer stuff (like havarti; I don't remember why I picked that specifically).
The Amharic signs were right there back then; now there's a Target and Best Buy and artisinally-foraged arugula pizza joint.
wildeyed
(11,243 posts)No havarti there when I was growing up.
It was a grittier city when I lived there, no doubt. It was blighted, but paradoxically, that also allowed a vibrant music and arts scene to exist. There were go-go and punk shows all over the place, even a few that were outdoors and funded by the city (Marion Barry was a polarizing figure, but he did fund all sorts of cool art stuff). No one carded, ever, so we just roamed all over the city, listened to epic live music, drank too much, looked at good art, saw weird dance and theater. The Smithsonians were (still are) free, too. You could get good cheap eats at the Ethiopian place or go to the El Salvadorian diner the next day for hangover food. So the surface of the city was dull, but if you scratched it, there was so much going on, none of it centered on consumer culture.
Then crack happened, gun violence got really serious, and it got really horrible for a while And now it is all gentrified, full of European strollers and havarti cheese. Weird. Nothing there is affordable now, I guess.
Quayblue
(1,045 posts)My trips back to the D have been more and more sporadic. It kinda makes me sad.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)But there was still a lot of the awesome left (I got to meet Ian MacKaye and Chuck Brown at afterparties, stuff like that). And yeah I loved DC's arts scene but sometime around Tony Williams either it got worse or I got too old or probably a combination.
You could get good cheap eats at the Ethiopian place or go to the El Salvadorian diner the next day for hangover food.
Unfortunately even on Columbia Rd and 18th street it's getting hard to find decent cheap Salvadorian or Ethiopian food; you're much more likely to see seared duck breast or pork belly or whatever (when did Southern food become the go-to?) Of course there's always Fla Ave Grill and, obviously, Ben's.
That said I don't like to be one of those people who just bitches that the neighborhood changed; I mean in some ways it's a lot better now (you don't count gunshots at night, for one). Even the Target, as much as it pisses people off, means you can finally go buy a pack of underwear without having to leave the District. And if you wanted to go have a beer you used to have to either go to the Raven on Mt. Pleasant or that sketchy rinconcito speakeasy on Georgia, but now there's more bars than you can shake a stick at. I guess I'm saying I think it's a healthier place now than when I moved there, but I wish there were better ways to make it healthier while keeping the rents affordable. But then I have to ask why I "deserve" to live there more than the richer dude who wants to move in from MD, and I can't think of a reason.
wildeyed
(11,243 posts)I am assuming the schools improved. They were completely off the rails back then. And the crime was so bad for a while that even the police didn't go into certain places. But it wasn't all bad, and mere mortals could afford to live there. I was still a few years too late to it all. I never saw the Bad Brains live
Gentrification is always complicated.
Iris
(15,679 posts)I try to use the term individuals prefer, and what I've noticed is most black people I know call themselves black. And they call white people white. But since I work in higher education, I use the term AA at work, mostly around other white people, many of whom do not interact with a lot of black people, so I guess I'm doing that to make them feel comfortable. I've also noticed the Director of our Office of Diversity, uses the terms African-American and Caucasian, so now I use Caucasian in that setting to describe white people.
I also became aware that AA isn't a blanket statement for all people of color* when a friend pointed that out to me and told me that's why she calls herself black.
It feels like a funny game with the white folks. But I'm serious about honoring the wishes of what black people prefer.
*"people of color" is also a term I've noticed a lot lately, but in particular "women of color" when I am reading something in feminist studies or critical theory. It seems like that's a term used in academia but I usually never use it and felt odd writing it in that 2nd paragraph.
This thread has been great. Very educational and so respectful. (Except I see one post that was self-deleted)
Response to fun n serious (Original post)
brush This message was self-deleted by its author.