HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Topics » Religion & Spirituality » Religion (Group) » Liberal Christians: Santo...

Wed Feb 22, 2012, 01:15 PM

Liberal Christians: Santorum says none of you are Christians

ANSWER:
I could buy that. Again, yes, it goes to the larger question of whether I could buy that overall from that point of view. But is there such thing as a sincere liberal Christian, which says that we basically take this document and re-write it ourselves? Is that really Christian? Thatís a bigger question for me. And the answer is, no, itís not. I donít think there is such a thing. To take what is plainly written and say that I donít agree with that, therefore, I donít have to pay attention to it, means youíre not what you say you are. Youíre a liberal something, but youíre not a Christian. Thatís sort of how I look at it.

When you go so far afield of that and take what is a salvation story and turn it into a liberation theology story, which is done in the Catholic world as well as in the evangelical world, you have abandoned Christendom, in my opinion. And you donít have a right to claim it.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/rick-santorum-in-2008-theres-no-such-thing-as-a


Also under discussion in GD here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002338125

29 replies, 5138 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 29 replies Author Time Post
Reply Liberal Christians: Santorum says none of you are Christians (Original post)
muriel_volestrangler Feb 2012 OP
rfranklin Feb 2012 #1
Goblinmonger Feb 2012 #2
rug Feb 2012 #4
ZombieHorde Feb 2012 #14
Goblinmonger Feb 2012 #17
eqfan592 Apr 2012 #27
Angry Dragon Feb 2012 #3
Brettongarcia Feb 2012 #5
LeftishBrit Feb 2012 #6
muriel_volestrangler Feb 2012 #10
msongs Feb 2012 #7
madrchsod Feb 2012 #8
bmbmd Feb 2012 #9
2ndAmForComputers Feb 2012 #11
bongbong Feb 2012 #12
spin Feb 2012 #15
darkstar3 Feb 2012 #13
Sal316 Feb 2012 #18
Humanist_Activist Feb 2012 #16
Bluerthanblue Feb 2012 #19
dmallind Feb 2012 #20
Bluerthanblue Feb 2012 #21
E_Pluribus_Unitarian Feb 2012 #22
Jamaal510 Apr 2012 #23
dmallind Apr 2012 #25
CJCRANE Apr 2012 #26
LeftishBrit Apr 2012 #29
dmallind Apr 2012 #24
LeftishBrit Apr 2012 #28

Response to muriel_volestrangler (Original post)

Wed Feb 22, 2012, 01:22 PM

1. That's right, he follows Republican Jesus Christ and we follow the other guy...

 

who said help the sick and feed the poor.

Republican Jesus has a concealed carry permit and slays evil doers and lazy welfare cheaters wherever he goes. He also hates homos and immigrants.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to muriel_volestrangler (Original post)

Wed Feb 22, 2012, 01:23 PM

2. And plenty of liberal Christians here say the conservatives one

 

aren't Christians either.

Round and round they go.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goblinmonger (Reply #2)

Wed Feb 22, 2012, 01:44 PM

4. What he's said reminds me of the accusations of cherry-picking made by nonbelievers.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rug (Reply #4)

Wed Feb 22, 2012, 08:39 PM

14. I think atheists, conservative Christians, and liberal Christians all make accusations

of cherry picking, and rightfully so in my opinion.

By "all," I don't mean every single person in those three groups, but rather many vocal people within each of the three groups.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rug (Reply #4)

Thu Feb 23, 2012, 10:25 AM

17. Both sides cherry pick.

 

That is the point of most atheists. I will offer up (which certainly is cherry picking, I guess) that which supports the other side when I see liberal christians cherry picking to dismiss the conservative christians, but I don't really have a horse in the race. I'm not arguing that one interpretation is the correct one according to the holy text since I don't think the text is holy. The point is that neither side has a monopoly on their interpretation and neither side wants to admit that but rather NTSs the other side.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goblinmonger (Reply #17)

Mon Apr 9, 2012, 04:43 PM

27. WELL SAID! (nt)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to muriel_volestrangler (Original post)

Wed Feb 22, 2012, 01:42 PM

3. I have set up a Christian testing site

It is the first and only Official Christian testing site in the world.

Fees are based on net worth sliding scale.
You will recieve a wallet sized Official Christian memnership card(laminated)
with a certificate suitable for framing. This is non-transferable.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to muriel_volestrangler (Original post)

Wed Feb 22, 2012, 02:00 PM

5. One remedy for this problem with Santorum: point to liberal Christian ideas deep in Catholicism

First, note liberal Catholic cardinals: like Bernardin and McCarrick, say. These cardinals are not Christians? Those who think that are not, are not following Church authority, and are not following the Church.

One topical example? Catholic hospitals are Catholic - but they allow/offer contraception.

Another? When Jesus was asked what was the source of his authority? He said "the spirit/wind blows where it will."

Pretty liberal ideas.

Here liberal Christians could make themselves useful; generating hundreds more objections.

Santorum's pretty resistent to this stuff to be sure; but if you throw enough Bible quotes at a conservative, even he might eventually ... break down a bit.

I'm currently offering a rough working paper online, presenting 200 arguments, to the effect that the Bible and Catholic tradition, properly understood, allowed abortion.

Sometimes the biblical quotes get through.

Though? Maybe just direct confrontation, or turnabout; tell Santorum he's not a Christian. Be firm about it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to muriel_volestrangler (Original post)

Wed Feb 22, 2012, 02:09 PM

6. Firstly...

Santorum is not the Pope, and certainly isn't Jesus, and it's not up to him to say who is a Christian.

Secondly. how does he reconcile the words of the Bible about 'what you did not unto the least of these' and about rich men and camels, etc. with his version of Christianity.

Thirdly, he seems to want to impose some sort of religious dictatorship on America, based on HIS views of religion. How is this acceptable? Or particularly different from someone wanting Sharia law? (I used to call Palin 'the Ayatollah of Alaska', but he's worse than her, which is difficult!)

Fourthly it would be tempting for us Brits to be smug at this point about this sort of attitude not affecting Britain - but read this, by Tim Stanley in the Torygraph, and weep!

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100138208/british-politics-could-do-with-a-bit-of-rick-santorums-religion/

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink



Response to muriel_volestrangler (Original post)

Wed Feb 22, 2012, 02:26 PM

7. what part of the bible says a pope has the right to determine who goes to heaven or hell? nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to muriel_volestrangler (Original post)

Wed Feb 22, 2012, 02:28 PM

8. i got jesus on the mainline and he told me...

rickie ain`t getting past the pearly gate.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to muriel_volestrangler (Original post)

Wed Feb 22, 2012, 02:39 PM

9. My theory is that Santorum's worldview

is seriously distorted and damaged by his wife. Karen, who was quite the hotty, spent several years of her life living with an older, sophisticated, worldy lady's man by the name of Tom Allen. I would certainly be intimidated if the love of my life was "entertained" by such a fellow in her earlier years, and would feel unable to compete. Santorum is bound to know that he can never measure up to Dr. Tom. Ergo, he has renounced love and affection and sexuality and free-spiritedness as evil, a demon to be conquered and avoided. He can't be as smart or sexy or funny or competent or interesting as Dr. Tom, so he chooses to be more fanatical, uptight (sweater vests?) and asexual.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to muriel_volestrangler (Original post)

Wed Feb 22, 2012, 03:14 PM

11. Which just proves the NTS fallacy cuts both ways.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to muriel_volestrangler (Original post)

Wed Feb 22, 2012, 03:25 PM

12. I thought

 

I thought the Bible says that judgment of others is reserved by God.

The only "Bible" these right-wing nuts care about is the "Handbook Of Grifting & How To Fleece Your Flock"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bongbong (Reply #12)

Wed Feb 22, 2012, 09:19 PM

15. Good point...

Judging others is above our pay grade.


Luke 6:37-42

New International Version (NIV)

Judging Others
37 ďDo not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38 Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.Ē

39 He also told them this parable: ďCan the blind lead the blind? Will they not both fall into a pit? 40 The student is not above the teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like their teacher.

41 ďWhy do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brotherís eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 42 How can you say to your brother, ĎBrother, let me take the speck out of your eye,í when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brotherís eye.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+6%3A37-42&version=NIV


Excellent advice for a true Christian to follow.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to muriel_volestrangler (Original post)

Wed Feb 22, 2012, 07:42 PM

13. I wonder if local NTS defenders will find THIS to be religious bigotry?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to darkstar3 (Reply #13)

Thu Feb 23, 2012, 12:33 PM

18. Yes, it is.

Secondly, in the scriptures when Jesus preaches his first sermon, he reads the Isaiah scroll, which is a scroll of liberation.

Santorum's got it wrong.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to muriel_volestrangler (Original post)

Wed Feb 22, 2012, 09:59 PM

16. For the believer, they have to look in the mirror to find the only true christian in the world. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to muriel_volestrangler (Original post)

Thu Feb 23, 2012, 02:00 PM

19. Santorum's opinion doesn't really matter.

unless he is 'Christ'.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bluerthanblue (Reply #19)

Thu Feb 23, 2012, 02:19 PM

20. Does that go for others who say the same things?

That the "beat your baby to death for Jesus" Pearls aren't Christians? That the Phelpses aren't Christians? That this week's "I killed for God" life-time churchgoer isn't a Christian? Do these opinions matter when not coming from "Christ"? Are they more or less valid than Rick's and why?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dmallind (Reply #20)

Thu Feb 23, 2012, 03:05 PM

21. what is the value of a 'label'?

Last edited Thu Feb 23, 2012, 03:45 PM - Edit history (1)

Santorum is using his interpretation of the label to mean one thing- others (some who claim the label and others who detest it) have different standards of what 'being a christian' means.

Claiming a label or hiding behind a banner of any kind, doesn't really mean much in the end. You can call yourself a 'compassionate conservative'- and be selfish, lavish with your spending when it comes to your own pet projects. Does that label matter in reality?

I used to care about the label of Christian. But I've learned that labels- be they political, religious, physical, etc. are more often just a kind of costume that people put on to give themselves a sense of meaning/value/belonging.

A Christian by logic, would be one who follows or espouses the life and teachings of the man known as Jesus Christ. Each one of us has to measure our own interpretation of whether a person who claims a label is doing so because it actually defines or disguises who they really are.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to muriel_volestrangler (Original post)

Thu Feb 23, 2012, 05:40 PM

22. Someone should ask Santorum...

if Lent is found anywhere in the scriptures? He wouldn't want to practice anything that wasn't scriptural, would he? In this case, by his understanding, seems that he's either not a good, scriptural Christian or is not a good Catholic. Dogma's a bitch, ain't it, Slick Rick?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to muriel_volestrangler (Original post)

Mon Apr 9, 2012, 01:27 PM

23. I think Santorum, along with the RW fundies, have been possessed by the Devil.

Much of what they say and do contradict with the teachings of Christ. Christ taught everyone to care for the poor and to love our neighbors, yet they constantly accuse Obama of being a Muslim as if that's a bad thing, they oppose equal rights for gays, and they demonize raising taxes on the so-called Job Creators instead of cutting safety net programs.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jamaal510 (Reply #23)

Mon Apr 9, 2012, 02:49 PM

25. And he advised people to do that as individuals, not governments

You'll find that's the standard RW answer - and they have charitable giving and volunteer data to show they do so at least as much as liberals. Sadly JC was silent on politics and spoke exclusively about people - sometimes espousing more right wimg ideas and sometimes more left.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dmallind (Reply #25)

Mon Apr 9, 2012, 03:15 PM

26. Do you think that if governments can help more people

more efficiently that Jesus would be against that?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dmallind (Reply #25)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 09:06 AM

29. In that case, why should it be the government's role to pass laws against abortion and homosexuality

The right-wingers can't have it both ways.

Since governments of the modern sort didn't exist in Jesus' time, or for centuries afterwards, it is hardly possible to take anything in the New Testament as a detailed prescription for government. But if one does take it as such, why is it OK for governments to ban abortion (about which the Gospels say nothing) but not to help poor people?

Also: while this does not describe all right-wing voters, there is a distinct tendency for the right wing to take a mean-spirited attitude to poor people; to think that their problems are their own fault, and that they should be forced to 'stand on their own feet'. This is an individual-level, not just a government attitude.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to muriel_volestrangler (Original post)

Mon Apr 9, 2012, 02:44 PM

24. The EXACT arguments more than one liberal believer here made in reverse

Wouldn't a faith based on a God speaking personally on matters of faith be far less likely to be misconstrued (whichever side is doing that) than it apparently is?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to muriel_volestrangler (Original post)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 08:58 AM

28. Rick Santorum is scum of the earth.

And for that matter, he is obviously doing some 'interpreting' of his 'document', which says nothing about abortion or contraception, and very little about homosexuality.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread