One cannot provoke, one cannot insult other peoples' faith" - Pope Francis 1-15-15

[cleanhippie]

[edhopper]

1. Hey Frank

let me explain the difference between a free democracy and a hierarchical autocratic Church

[trotsky]

2. The more things change... n/t

[BillZBubb]

3. To be fair to the Pope, this is taken out of context.

If you read his entire comment, it was along the lines of "you cannot insult other people's faith and not expect violent blowback." In that he is entirely correct. History is full of examples. He isn't calling for censorship or endorsing violence. He's just pointing out what can happen and asking for restraint.

[trotsky]

4. If he was asking for restraint, he'd use "shouldn't" instead of "cannot."

"Cannot" implies it should be forbidden.

And shouldn't a violent reaction be blamed on the person who reacted violently? To blame the person who offended is obscene.

[BillZBubb]

7. The Pope made it clear that violence was unjustified and wrong.

He didn't blame the person who offended. He merely stated that, with religion in particular, people are very prone to violence if they deem the offence grave enough. It is something everyone should take into account.

[trotsky]

9. But "normal" if one is provoked.

Is that what Jesus said?

How about Gandhi?

[Warren Stupidity]

10. While stating that violence is to be expected .

And yes his allegory about insulting his mom clearly put blame on the insulter.

[cleanhippie]

17. “If my good friend says a curse word against my mother, he can expect a punch,” Francis said

The Pope made it clear that violence was unjustified and wrong

Uhm yeah.

[cleanhippie]

5. Words are NEVER an excuse for violence.

And like many right here, he is saying that provoking believers leads to violence. One should expect that, so don't provoke them.



Fuck. That. Noise.

[BillZBubb]

6. History proves him right and you wrong.

Your logic is flawed. Provoking doesn't justify violence. But, in the real world, provoking many times does lead to violence. So, yes if you provoke people too much, you should realize that violence is possible. You'd be a fool not to.

The Pope is simply asking people to be realistic and weigh the pros and cons of what they are doing.

[cleanhippie]

8. Words are NEVER an excuse for violence.

[trotsky]

11. It's astonishing what one sees on this site sometimes.

Instead of focusing on the abuser who uses violence and correct their behavior, some think we have to take the victim to task and correct THEIR behavior. Wow, just wow.

[BillZBubb]

14. Bullshit. That's not what the Pope did at all.

[trotsky]

16. It's what you are doing. n/t

[BillZBubb]

12. The Pope condemned violence. But of course you didn't care to read what he said.

[cleanhippie]

15. "If my good friend says a curse word against my mother, he can expect a punch,” Francis said

Words are NEVER an excuse for violence.

[Warren Stupidity]

13. The pope's words: “One cannot provoke; one cannot insult other people’s faith".

That is not "asking" that is stating what one can not do. It couldn't be more clear.

[BillZBubb]

18. Again, out of context.

One cannot insult other people's faith and disregard the possibility of a violent reaction.

That's what he was saying if you read his entire statement. He condemned violence, but said the reality is that people will react that way if pushed too far. They always have, and always will.

[Warren Stupidity]

19. That's even worse.

[cleanhippie]

20. "One cannot insult other people's faith and disregard the possibility of a violent reaction."

Why not? Why should we allow violence as an allowable reaction?

[BillZBubb]

21. Again flawed logic.

Recognizing that violence has and will occur in no way condones the violence. It is a statement of reality. You'd be a fool to insult someone and not at least understand there may be a violent response, particularly if it their religion.

That doesn't mean we accept it as allowable. It shouldn't happen, but it does. Just like bank robberies shouldn't happen, but they do. Banks realize this, so they have safes and other security.

[trotsky]

22. Why should we accept it as normal that insulting someone's religion might get you killed?

Is that just an inherent feature of religion?

[Leontius]

27. The hive can't understand. You're wasting your time.

[edhopper]

23. Yes

self edit yourselves. Curtail your free speech to the judgement of the most violent and crazy.
We should understand that if you offend someone, expect to be attacked, especially if it's about faith.

They had it coming, n'est-ce pas?

[Act_of_Reparation]

24. What a load of codswallop.

If he said, "Women cannot wear skimpy clothing and not expect unwanted sexual advances from men", we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. He'd be fucking pilloried, and rightfully so.

The only thing we should expect from our neighbors is that they obey the fucking law. It's illegal to throw the first punch. Period. Even if something bad was said about your mother.

[okasha]

28. It's illegal, most of the time, in the United States.

Once you cross the southern border of los Estados Unidos del Norte, though, you're in a different culture with different laws.

Period.

[AtheistCrusader]

25. I expect to be able to say whatever the fuck I want.

If someone escalates that to physical violence, it's on them, not me. Sorry.

In a civilized society, people are free to speak, and you have recourse if you don't like it; your own voice. That's the limits of your justifiable response.

He called physical violence in the face of insult, "normal". Fuck him, and anyone else that normalizes violence. He doesn't know shit about shit, let alone revealed truth about the universe and our place in it.

Fuck. Him.

[Lordquinton]

29. so the pope was threatening everyone?

If we insult his religion, he will retaliate? He even demonstrated that, in spite of his words against violence he said he would result to it in the right circumstances.

This pope just threatened the world to not insult his relifion or expect violent retaliation.

[isobar]

26. Well, if some pope says so, then I guess I will have to comply.

NOT !!!